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-   -   $20k boat VS $60k boat (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f47/20k-boat-vs-60k-boat-153399.html)

TitoSoto 22-09-2015 11:22

$20k boat VS $60k boat
 
Which is the more financially responsible option?

1. 1970's 20k 40'+ Sailboat + 20k in "upgrades"

or

2. 2000's 60k 37' Sailboat


I will not do all the work myself on the older boat, so it will not become a "project", everything will be done once by a professional (hence the "high" 40k add-on). My arguments;

- I can completely redo the interior of an older boat with that much cash, so I will have EXACTLY the layout I want (and be much nicer than a newer boat), plus I can get a larger boat for much less (because of age).

- But, a newer boat has a furling main which is a big plus for me, something I couldn't add to an older boat because of the high cost. Also, no work involved.

- I will convert either one to electric propulsion, so the engine age and condition don't matter.

oldragbaggers 22-09-2015 12:08

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
These numbers (either one) do not seem realistic to me especially if you are going to hire professionals to do all your work on the older boat.

Greenhand 22-09-2015 12:11

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
It depends on the boat. A 60K 2000's boat may not be in very good condition and as such would need plenty of maintenance projects.

As to the budget, we have spent about 15k in a year and a half, doing pretty much everything ourselves, except the exhaust manifold rebuild. Just the money you spend on epoxy is mind boggling if you have to repair anything. And properly sized wiring for the DC system? Oy Vey!! I can't imagine getting all that much for 20k from professionals. Our dock neighbor spent 2.5k having the boat painted and he taped it up and removed the tape himself and had to hound the guy to finish the job in between.

boatpoker 22-09-2015 12:18

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
Your numbers are way out of whack. I've seen a 35' boat re-wired for 60k,

TitoSoto 22-09-2015 12:24

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
Wow, I suppose getting work done by "professionals" might not be such a good idea then!

I know that I can definitely find a boat for ~60k as I am literally looking at a 1998 Beneteau Moorings 382 right now for 68k.

I am incredibly handy and wouldn't mind taping and untaping a boat for paint if it means spending 2k less on boat prep. But what I can't do is any of the interior cabinetry or upholstery, for example.

Jman 22-09-2015 12:41

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
I presume a mis-type and you meant 20k boat with 40k added to equal the same 60k.

Even so you are not going to be even close either way - to sailing away. The newer boat will be tough shape. You will definitely not be "reconfiguring" the interior of your older choice to your exact specifications, if you get professionals doing it you won't get much of anything.

$40k at $100 an hour is only 400 hours, ten weeks of time, with no materials.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

zboss 22-09-2015 12:48

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenhand (Post 1920120)
Our dock neighbor spent 2.5k having the boat painted and he taped it up and removed the tape himself and had to hound the guy to finish the job in between.

That is one of the hardest lessons in the boat world... these guys agree to do the work but just never bother showing up or calling to do the work. Then then the yard has the balls to charge you for the time in the slip/yard waiting for them to show up.

This is why we have given up on pros for most everything and have learned to do everything ourselves.

If you get a newer boat you end up doing the exact same work as the older boat.

My buddy bought a westsail 32 and has spent the last two years completely rebuilding it from the bottom up, starting with removing everything including the interior. He just really wanted a Westsail.

You have to really love whatever boat you buy.

I vote for the 20K boat - although 20K no matter the age says to me "Hurricane Sandy".

UNCIVILIZED 22-09-2015 12:48

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
Firstly, a Big part of how much it'll cost to refurbish either boat will depend on; how much it's been used, how hard, & how much upkeep over time has been done.
Also, I STRONGLY concur with the other members who are saying that your numbers are grossly undersized. It's easy to burn up $10-$15k on a repower alone. And that's with you doing a lot of the work.

For an expert opinion, read this article by Nigel Calder. He's pretty much acknowledged as THE boat maintance & upkeep guru. A Refit Reality Check | Cruising World
You'd also benefit from going to www.Mahina.com & reading their wisdoms on boat selection & upkeep (costs).

Realistically, it's easy to spend as much or more than the purchase price of either boat, in bringing them up to spec. Not including a new interior.

oldragbaggers 22-09-2015 13:32

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
The more realistic approach, in my (very) humble view, if you have a $60K firm budget either way, is to look for an older boat that has been meticulously maintained, upgraded, and equipped to cruise already. It will take some patience and you will no doubt look at a lot of crap before you find one that lives up to the owner's description (every boat for sale is in "sail away condition" according to the advertising) but there are some great boats out there and if you take your time and learn to do a thorough survey (I am talking about an initial evaluation, you will still need to hire a competent surveyor once you are ready to make an offer) you can find a great boat that really is ready to take you somewhere for $60K.

I do know these boats exist. I have known people that have purchased them, and we have sold a couple ourselves at significant losses. Other people benefited from the fact that either our lives had to make a shift in direction or we had gotten 3-foot-itis.

We had friends who spent several years lovingly restoring and fitting out a Pacific Seacraft Mariah 31' with the intention of going cruising. They spared absolutely no expense and did everything to the highest possible standard. They went out for a short cruise (I am thinking a couple of months) and decided that it was too small for the long distance cruising they had in mind. They sold it at a great loss in order to buy a Peterson 44. Someone got one heck of a deal on a boat that was absolutely ready to go. These things happen for a host of different reasons.

I can't stress enough the need for a skilled surveyor if your plan is to shoot the whole budget on the purchase price because then you will be buggered when failures and defects start to make themselves known and you have no funds in reserve to deal with them, especially if you are not prepared to do your own work. It won't take many times of calling someone in to do something for you that you will either learn real quick to do your own repairs or decide that boats are much too expensive if you are on a limited budget.

You may be able to find a newer boat in the size range and budget you state, but the likelihood that it will be anywhere near pristine or properly fit out for cruising are pretty slim. You can find any number of older boats in the $20K price point and in the 35-40' size range but I can tell you from a great deal of experience (going through a refit of just such a boat ourselves right now) that you are not going to get anywhere at all on $40K if you plan to hire people to do everything for you. We fully expect to have at least that much in our boat with doing most everything except the engine repairs and making up the rigging ourselves.

Modify your expectations a bit though and there is no reason you can't get out there on a decent and sound boat for the budget you have stated and if you take your time and look carefully you might even have some $$$ left over.

Good luck to you.

JTHAW 22-09-2015 20:00

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
Becky's assessment is complete reality...excellent...

haiqu 23-09-2015 04:31

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TitoSoto (Post 1920087)
- I will convert either one to electric propulsion, so the engine age and condition don't matter.

This right here tells me you're clueless and shouldn't be buying a boat until you do a lot more research. Apart from astronomical cost it just won't work unless you intend to shore charge it continuously.

a64pilot 23-09-2015 04:42

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
For whatever it's worth, I think I'm about 40K into preparing my boat for cruising, and that is almost no money in repairs as it was in excellent shape, it's in equipment, sails, rigging etc., and I have yet to touch the interior. Now all I plan on doing to interior is replacing the settee cushions as I don't think I could improve on layout and what is there is in excellent shape, but foam ages and loses it's firmness.
Point being is I think I'll end up with 50K in it after purchase price, and that was with a boat that was in excellent shape. I think I would have spent 40K if it had been off the showroom floor.
You start adding up autopilots, charging systems, radar, plotters, battery banks, generator, watermaker, refrigeration, dinghy and motor,windlass, ground tackle, davits, solar systems etc. It adds up pretty quick.

I don't mean to be disparaging, many buy a boat and a Coleman cooler and cruise quite happily, it can be done, just I'm old and the wife won't go unless I make her comfortable, or maybe she would and I just use her as an excuse?

David_Old_Jersey 23-09-2015 04:52

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
A 2000 boat will be due its 2nd refit......or well overdue its 1st!

Or could be a well maintained minter.....less of those around of course.

Me would go 40 on the boat and 20 on refit / upgrades / minor changes....age less important than being in good condition. Really good condition.

Obviously if you are looking to repower with electric that will change things (I make no comment on the advisability of doing so).....if you can find a very good boat except for a stuffed engine then likely to get a good deal - but often stuffed engine is part of a long history of lack of boat maintenance elsewhere (everywhere else?!).

Sent from my NEXUS 5 whilst sitting in my armchair tied to the dock.

Kenomac 23-09-2015 05:06

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
Save up and spend $80k on a 2000's boat that's already in good condition. Our 1998 Hunter 450 was in great condition, and didn't require any refit when we purchased it, or when we sold it in 2011

jrbogie 23-09-2015 07:37

Re: $20k boat VS $60k boat
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TitoSoto (Post 1920087)
Which is the more financially responsible option?

1. 1970's 20k 40'+ Sailboat + 20k in "upgrades"

or

2. 2000's 60k 37' Sailboat


I will not do all the work myself on the older boat, so it will not become a "project", everything will be done once by a professional (hence the "high" 40k add-on). My arguments;

- I can completely redo the interior of an older boat with that much cash, so I will have EXACTLY the layout I want (and be much nicer than a newer boat), plus I can get a larger boat for much less (because of age).

- But, a newer boat has a furling main which is a big plus for me, something I couldn't add to an older boat because of the high cost. Also, no work involved.

- I will convert either one to electric propulsion, so the engine age and condition don't matter.

which option IS MORE FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE? you're kidding right? there is nothing financially irresponsible in buying the boat that you like. i would assume that you have determined the cost of upgrades on the older boat. certainly nobody here can give you that number and to proceed with the older boat would be irresponsible as finances go. so let's assume that each boat ended up costing the same 60k at the end of the day. your choice seem quite simple to me. a nice 37' boat with the interior exactly as you want without main furling or a 40' boat with main furling. i wouldn't have furling main on any boat. as i'm getting older though i am considering an electric halyard winch.


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