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-   -   Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe? (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f47/why-are-yachts-so-much-cheaper-in-europe-152506.html)

boatman61 05-09-2015 04:21

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
VAT is only paid once on a yacht.. by the first buyer.. unless its a charter company like Moorings etc..
After that the yacht is not liable for further VAT.. it does not apply to second hand privately owned boats.. unless they have been out of the EU Zone for 3 years... in which case its deemed a re-importation.
So if a broker asks you for VAT on a second hand boat.. he's screwing you over.

dlymn 05-09-2015 04:31

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
Let's buy a boat in say, Croatia for say $100,000. Sail it back to Aus. There's 3-6 months out of your life or pay >$25,000 to have it delivered, Pay big insurance for offshore or take the risk of piracy from Egypt to Aus. All of this assumes that you've prepared what was probably an ex charter boat into a blue water sailer. I reckon with liferafts, safety gear, overhauls, you wouldn't get much change from $20,000. Get it to Aus and pay GST on current market value in Aus, import duty, fumigation, registration your probably up for another $25,000.
So that $100,000 boat has now cost you $170,000.
I forgot to include food, diesel, storm damage, port fees for the trip over.

Last time I heard someone trying to do this, they found pieces of the boat washed up on an island in the Pacific.

Buy a boat over there and sail it around the Med. Enjoy!

David_Old_Jersey 05-09-2015 05:01

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
Long answer short - it only makes financial sense if intending to use in EU for several years / seasons.....and also want to make the trip home by boat.

For some that works - for most it don't.

estarzinger 05-09-2015 05:41

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenomac (Post 1907699)
Well.... I can only speak for my UK, Spanish and Italian purchasing experiences. Whether for the boat or items which were purchased for the boat, all required the payment of VAT unless I took delivery of the items outside the VAT zone. And there was virtually no way possible for us to be refunded the VAT on items such as an including our new anchor, turbo, engine work done the first year, boat storage.... Basically everything.

If its purchased within the VAT zone, you will pay VAT... purchased outside the VAT zone, no payment of VAT.

Ken, the people you are dealing with are simply doing you no favors. I have project managed a couple $m refits in France and UK. We did not pay VAT on any of them. The boats 'left' (isle of Mann registery) the EU the day they were put in the water, just for a day, and then returned to their normal VAT in/out dance. The yards all triple checked this was legal because it was their responsibility/liability to collect the VAT. So the folks you are dealing with are simply not making the extra effort to save you the VAT.

Note/edit: we faxed the yards our non-EU clearances. All the yards wanted/needed was to know they had left. It may be that the responsibility/liability passed to the owner after the "for a day".

Kenomac 05-09-2015 05:55

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by estarzinger (Post 1907766)
Ken, the people you are dealing with are simply doing you no favors. I have project managed a couple $m refits in France and UK. We did not pay VAT on any of them. The boats 'left' (isle of Mann registery) the EU the day they were put in the water, just for a day, and then returned to their normal VAT in/out dance. The yards all triple checked this was legal because it was their responsibility/liability to collect the VAT. So the folks you are dealing with are simply not making the extra effort to save you the VAT.

In the UK, I was able to recover the VAT I'd paid to the Oyster Yard which was Fox's marina at the time, but not without running around myself to get the job done and the signatures required. Outside the UK has been another story. I've yet to recover a single cent over the past three years. All of the chandleries charge VAT and so do the yards, and expect me to recover the VAT at the airports following departure, which is impossible unless I have all the paperwork in order... Which never happens, and I have a six hour layover at Heathrow to wait in line. At the airport, the clerk always asks for something I don't have, then the following year... It's too late.

I'm just trying to be honest with the OP, forget about assuming he'll be able to recover any VAT with the exception of avoiding the VAT on the boat. Maybe if I was fluent in all languages it would be easier, but try to explain what you need regarding the proper paperwork to someone who only speaks Catalan sometime.

Factor 05-09-2015 06:06

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dlymn (Post 1907732)
Let's buy a boat in say, Croatia for say $100,000. Sail it back to Aus. There's 3-6 months out of your life or pay >$25,000 to have it delivered, Pay big insurance for offshore or take the risk of piracy from Egypt to Aus. All of this assumes that you've prepared what was probably an ex charter boat into a blue water sailer. I reckon with liferafts, safety gear, overhauls, you wouldn't get much change from $20,000. Get it to Aus and pay GST on current market value in Aus, import duty, fumigation, registration your probably up for another $25,000.
So that $100,000 boat has now cost you $170,000.
I forgot to include food, diesel, storm damage, port fees for the trip over.

Last time I heard someone trying to do this, they found pieces of the boat washed up on an island in the Pacific.

Buy a boat over there and sail it around the Med. Enjoy!

Dont forget that the hi voltage electrical system and the gas systems are likely to not be legal in Australia as well, and possibly the refrigerant.

boatman61 05-09-2015 06:11

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
Helped an Aussie CF member get his new Lagoon 380 from La Rochelle to Gran Canaria... along the way he bought a fair bit of extra boat stuff including a big Smart TV/computer.. all in Spain/Canaries.
He saved all his receipts.. when he had made his final purchase and had a definite sail date we wandered down to the Customs office in Las Palmas where he filled in the forms along with his bank details and receipts.. 3 months later the money was in his account.
The French part was handled by the Brokers dealing with the sale/purchase


blackswan555 05-09-2015 06:21

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
The Euro being crap also helps ? If you are paying in Pounds or something linked, You are getting 30% more for your money than a couple of years back,

Tim

valhalla360 05-09-2015 06:36

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
Shipping
Long distance purchase complications/costs
The Euro just to a huge drop
The EU economy still weak


If you are looking to bring a boat back, it's probably not nearly as cheap as it sounds. If you are looking for a boat to cruise in the EU, it's a great time to buy.


As Austrailian/New Zealanders, you have a nice advantage as you can skirt the Schengen Rules due to prior agreements that allow you to hop between countries and extend your stay.


As others have said, VAT can be a complication if you get caught by it but there are generally ways around it for non-EU residents.

K_V_B 05-09-2015 07:23

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenomac (Post 1907699)
I'm not an EU resident. A delivery crew was hired by the previous owner to deliver our boat to Guernsey, specifically to avoid VAT, the boat anchored next to me right now, the same story except their went to Gibraltar for delivery.

Odd story. Guernsey is within the customs territory of the EU, so would not qualifay as a destination to get your VAT clock (re)started.

LACHLANC 05-09-2015 07:35

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by valhalla360 (Post 1907792)
Shipping
Long distance purchase complications/costs
The Euro just to a huge drop
The EU economy still weak


If you are looking to bring a boat back, it's probably not nearly as cheap as it sounds. If you are looking for a boat to cruise in the EU, it's a great time to buy.


As Austrailian/New Zealanders, you have a nice advantage as you can skirt the Schengen Rules due to prior agreements that allow you to hop between countries and extend your stay.


As others have said, VAT can be a complication if you get caught by it but there are generally ways around it for non-EU residents.

While New Zealanders have prior specific country visa arrangements with some Schengen countries for longer than 3 month stays, I'm pretty sure Australia doesn't.

boatman61 05-09-2015 07:36

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by K_V_B (Post 1907818)
Odd story. Guernsey is within the customs territory of the EU, so would not qualifay as a destination to get your VAT clock (re)started.

Yup... remember an American couple (or were they Aussie) who made that assumption about their Catamaran then got to Portugal and wondered why their boat was 'impounded'..

wiekeith 05-09-2015 07:39

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by K_V_B (Post 1907818)
Odd story. Guernsey is within the customs territory of the EU, so would not qualifay as a destination to get your VAT clock (re)started.

It's all rather confusing, but apparently the Channel Islands (Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, Sark and Herm) are not part of the UK or the European Union for VAT purposes.

Jens Jakobsen 05-09-2015 07:54

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
If you are searching for a blue water sailing yacht, see Marie-Galante | 48 fods Bavaria TIL SALG lying Seychelles with both local VAT and European VAT paid. She has loads of blue water equipment, such as genset, water maker, satcom (fleet broadband FB 150) watercooled fridge as well as freezer, that really works in the tropics and even aircondition. Contact details are on the website if you are interested.

Kenomac 05-09-2015 07:58

Re: Why are yachts so much cheaper in Europe?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by K_V_B (Post 1907818)
Odd story. Guernsey is within the customs territory of the EU, so would not qualifay as a destination to get your VAT clock (re)started.

I didn't say I went there to restart my VAT clock, did I? Guernsey is a VAT exempt economic zone within the EU. People travel there to buy things without paying VAT.

If I want to restart my VAT clock it's necessary to leave the EU for a day, which would mean a trip to Gibraltar, North Africa or Montenegro. I could go to Switzerland for a day to restart my VAT clock..... but it's rather difficult to get there by boat.

Two different reasons to go two different places... Look it up.


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