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solecollector 06-05-2015 13:01

Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
I have a beer brewing system with 2.5 gallon kegs. The kegs use Co2... How difficult will it be to get in the islands from the Bahamas to the South Pacific?


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weavis 06-05-2015 13:09

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by solecollector (Post 1818976)
I have a beer brewing system with 2.5 gallon kegs. The kegs use Co2... How difficult will it be to get in the islands from the Bahamas to the South Pacific?


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I dont think its legal to brew beer in the bahamas without a licence.

https://www.sice.oas.org/investment/N...eerManuf_e.pdf

Jail time.

fstbttms 06-05-2015 13:40

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by solecollector (Post 1818976)
I have a beer brewing system with 2.5 gallon kegs. The kegs use Co2... How difficult will it be to get in the islands from the Bahamas to the South Pacific?

If there are welding supply shops where you are going, there will be CO2.

sailorboy1 06-05-2015 14:47

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
I bet almost anywhere has a bar with keg or places with soda fountain systems, both using CO2

StuM 06-05-2015 14:52

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fstbttms (Post 1819001)
If there are welding supply shops where you are going, there will be CO2.

But not food grade :(

Look for a local CocaCola factory :)

fstbttms 06-05-2015 15:00

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StuM (Post 1819049)
But not food grade :(

CO2 is CO2, regardless of where it comes from. There is no such thing as "food grade" CO2.

solecollector 06-05-2015 15:40

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
Thanks all!!


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StuM 06-05-2015 19:19

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fstbttms (Post 1819058)
CO2 is CO2, regardless of where it comes from. There is no such thing as "food grade" CO2.

Technically speaking you are correct. As far as pure CO2 goes. However, no CO2 produced and bottled is 100% pure.

The different grades are based on the permissible levels and types of contaminants as a result of the production and bottling processes.

FDA mandates 99% purity for industrial and 99.9% purity for food grade.

Then there is the type of impurity:

"There is a HUGE difference in various CO2 QVL's (Quality Verification Levels - there are five).
ISBT (International Society of Beverage Technologists) has CO2 Guidelines for quality - this is what you want. Also CGA G-6.2 QVL I is Beverage Grade CO2 equivalent to ISBT.
"Food Grade" is QVL H. It is technically not Food Grade, it is Food Processing Grade.
Beverage Grade/Quality (ISBT/CGA G-6.2 QVL I) mandates many more impurities be removed that are not even checked in QVL H such as:
Benzene (yes BENZENE), ammonia, phosphine, much lower levels of sulfur and acetaldehyde both of which will affect taste, oil and grease and methanol.
You don't want higher levels of sulfur and acetaldahyde and you sure don't want unchecked benzene levels."

fstbttms 06-05-2015 19:56

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
Homebrewers have been using whatever grade CO2 is available at welding supply shops for decades. I've never heard of anybody ever having an issue (of any kind) with it.

leftbrainstuff 06-05-2015 20:00

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StuM (Post 1819184)
Technically speaking you are correct. As far as pure CO2 goes. However, no CO2 produced and bottled is 100% pure.

The different grades are based on the permissible levels and types of contaminants as a result of the production and bottling processes.

FDA mandates 99% purity for industrial and 99.9% purity for food grade.

Then there is the type of impurity:

"There is a HUGE difference in various CO2 QVL's (Quality Verification Levels - there are five).
ISBT (International Society of Beverage Technologists) has CO2 Guidelines for quality - this is what you want. Also CGA G-6.2 QVL I is Beverage Grade CO2 equivalent to ISBT.
"Food Grade" is QVL H. It is technically not Food Grade, it is Food Processing Grade.
Beverage Grade/Quality (ISBT/CGA G-6.2 QVL I) mandates many more impurities be removed that are not even checked in QVL H such as:
Benzene (yes BENZENE), ammonia, phosphine, much lower levels of sulfur and acetaldehyde both of which will affect taste, oil and grease and methanol.
You don't want higher levels of sulfur and acetaldahyde and you sure don't want unchecked benzene levels."

Welding gas suppliers can supply CO2. It'll be just as good or better than gas labelled as food grade.

The fact you're using CO2 in a confined space is a whole bigger issue.

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skipmac 06-05-2015 20:06

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by StuM (Post 1819184)
Technically speaking you are correct. As far as pure CO2 goes. However, no CO2 produced and bottled is 100% pure.

The different grades are based on the permissible levels and types of contaminants as a result of the production and bottling processes.

FDA mandates 99% purity for industrial and 99.9% purity for food grade.

Then there is the type of impurity:

"There is a HUGE difference in various CO2 QVL's (Quality Verification Levels - there are five).
ISBT (International Society of Beverage Technologists) has CO2 Guidelines for quality - this is what you want. Also CGA G-6.2 QVL I is Beverage Grade CO2 equivalent to ISBT.
"Food Grade" is QVL H. It is technically not Food Grade, it is Food Processing Grade.
Beverage Grade/Quality (ISBT/CGA G-6.2 QVL I) mandates many more impurities be removed that are not even checked in QVL H such as:
Benzene (yes BENZENE), ammonia, phosphine, much lower levels of sulfur and acetaldehyde both of which will affect taste, oil and grease and methanol.
You don't want higher levels of sulfur and acetaldahyde and you sure don't want unchecked benzene levels."

Not sure about your part of the world but in the states there are also differing levels of certification but the gases are all the same. Got this straight from the big gas suppliers and confirmed by a friend that was west coast manager for one of the gas producers.

Medical O2 and welding O2 come out of the same tank at the suppliers plant. Same for helium and I'm guessing CO2 as well.

socaldmax 06-05-2015 20:13

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
Look for the keg beer suppliers. They usually supply the CO2 for the bars as well, here they sell it much cheaper than at welding supply shops.

denverd0n 07-05-2015 06:00

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fstbttms (Post 1819202)
Homebrewers have been using whatever grade CO2 is available at welding supply shops for decades. I've never heard of anybody ever having an issue (of any kind) with it.

Yep, CO2 is CO2. Used to refill my CO2 tank at a local fire extinguisher place, when I lived in Denver and was homebrewing a lot. Found out about the place from the owner of a local pub--that's where he bought his CO2 from. He found out about the place from another pub owner--turns out a lot of them got their CO2 there.

So, look for fire extinguisher places, welding places, or bar supply places. Or just ask at the local pub where they get their CO2.

Good luck.

Dsanduril 07-05-2015 06:56

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
I love all the responses on all the threads about CO2 with zero science and zero backup. "My friend's cousin's brother's dog chased a rat with a note attached that said...."

Personally I'm quite content to use industrial CO2 because in my personal analysis the risks are low, but risks do exist. The very existence of "beverage grade CO2" came out of beverage recalls related to carbon disulfide and benzene contaminated beverages where the contaminants were traced back to the C02 used during production:

International Society of Beverage Technologists Carbon Dioxide Guidelines - Food Safety Magazine

Beverage - Industries > Food & Beverage Grade Industrial Gases-Food Chilling & Freezing Equipment-Process Solutions > Beverage | Linde US Industrial Gases

https://www.chromacademy.com/lms/sco1...verage-CO2.pdf

I'm most amused that the person who will jump in immediately and tell anyone and everyone that "compressed air is not compressed air" and that they'll kill themselves if they use the wrong compressor or air source will jump in here and claim that another compressed gas is all the same and there is no difference regardless of source.

There are different sources of C02 (at the liquification/compression point) and different potential contaminants. Allowing people to weigh the risks themselves, and discussing the risks, their sources, and their probability is worthwhile. Telling everyone they don't exist....:banghead:

fstbttms 07-05-2015 07:49

Re: Co2 - is it "easy" to find?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dsanduril (Post 1819389)
I'm most amused that the person who will jump in immediately and tell anyone and everyone that "compressed air is not compressed air" and that they'll kill themselves if they use the wrong compressor or air source will jump in here and claim that another compressed gas is all the same and there is no difference regardless of source.

Are you amused by that? That's nice. Because I never said it. Maybe you should learn to accurately quote somebody before opening your trap. https://www.fotolode.com/images/fstbt...s/rolleyes.gif

Regarding compressed air- there are two issues (neither of which are likely to come into play in homebrewing, of course), 1.- the compressor itself must provide clean breathing air and 2.- the hose through which that air is delivered must be of a type that will not offgas dangerous toxins. THAT is what I said.

Regarding CO2 for homebrewing- inferring that Joe Average is going to harm himself by using industrial CO2 (typically the only CO2 available to him) is ridiculous. Virtually every one of the many thousands of homebrewers in this country who uses bottled CO2 in his brewery gets it from an industrial source, or his local homebrew supply store, who also get it from an industrial source. As far as the homebrewer is concerned, CO2 is CO2 and it does not matter what the source or grade is. The risk of using it (if indeed, there actually is any) is so minimal as to be negligable.

From the article "CO2 Myths and Rumors" by Matt Coffman:

I am here to tell you that CO2 - unless mixed with another gas such as nitrogen - is CO2. Most of the time, industrial-grade CO2 comes from the same production plant as food or beverage-grade CO2.
The slight difference between industrial-grade CO2 and food-grade CO2 is the type of tests that are done to qualify CO2 as beverage or beer gas-grade compared to industrial-grade.


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