Cruisers & Sailing Forums (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/)
-   Europe & Mediterranean (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f17/)
-   -   Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have? (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f17/holding-tank-in-spain-a-must-have-142330.html)

NornaBiron 07-03-2015 12:10

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1768107)
Now I understand the meaning of the term "Third World Country".

Nope, the Med doesn't come close - you need to come to Egypt for that!

boatman61 07-03-2015 12:20

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1768107)
Now I understand the meaning of the term "Third World Country".

Funny you should say that... don't know many Third World countries that use angle iron for their traffic lights the way you guys do..
My... was my time in the States ever an eye opener.. aint nothing there for you to get superior about...:biggrin:

Kenomac 07-03-2015 13:01

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1768107)
Now I understand the meaning of the term "Third World Country".

So now we are to believe the Carolinas are Old World civilized and the rest of us here in the Med are Third world. Kinda sounds a bit bass-ackwards and delusional. You might want to come over without the attitude and see for yourself before being so judgmental.

weavis 07-03-2015 13:33

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1768107)
Now I understand the meaning of the term "Third World Country".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenomac (Post 1768173)
So now we are to believe the Carolinas are Old World civilized and the rest of us here in the Med are Third world. Kinda sounds a bit bass-ackwards and delusional. You might want to come over without the attitude and see for yourself before being so judgmental.

Actually, I think you would be doing us all a favour Ron Widman if you stayed away from the Med. Leave us and the turds alone. :flowers:

Oh..... and for a person who has lamented the lack of manners and rudeness on C.F., I might just point out that the reflection you gaze lovingly at in the mirror every day, might just be tarred with the same brush. Welcome to the Human race, sans turds of course. :thumb:

weavis 07-03-2015 13:39

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Raw sewage bacterial outfall Myrtle Beach...... S.C.

NRDC ranked South Carolina 24th in Beachwater Quality (out of 30 states). 15% of samples exceeded EPA's new BAV standards for designated beach areas in 2013.

Not good.

https://www.beachapedia.org/images/th...r_outfall.jpeg

Kenomac 07-03-2015 14:16

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1768212)
Raw sewage bacterial outfall Myrtle Beach...... S.C.

NRDC ranked South Carolina 24th in Beachwater Quality (out of 30 states). 15% of samples exceeded EPA's new BAV standards for designated beach areas in 2013.

Not good.

https://www.beachapedia.org/images/th...r_outfall.jpeg

Doesn't appear to be as civilized as some seem to believe. Maybe even a little "turd world."

rwidman 07-03-2015 14:23

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Nope. Those pipes are common and drain streets and parking lots and even areas behind berms. Not sewage. You see them all up and down the AICW as well. Let's not try to pass off photos for something that they are not to try and make a point.

weavis 07-03-2015 15:00

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1768253)
Nope. Those pipes are common and drain streets and parking lots and even areas behind berms. Not sewage,

It does not take away the figures regarding S.C. does it? Its coming from somewhere.............:whistling:

Contamination directly recorded from the coastal water ESPECIALLY OFF THE SWIMMING BEACHES.....if its not coming from the runoffs its coming from a a direct sewer outfall.

15% too much 'untreated' sewage and bacteria. Sewers breakdown and overflow into runoffs during high waterfall periods you know..... 15% is a lot given the length of the Coastline. Thats a lot of direct poop contact.

...... probably them pesky boats without holding tanks and the naughty fish pooping..:redface:



Contrast this with Barcelona beaches (and the East side of Spain) being awarded the #1 spot by National Geographic Magasine for the best beach and water quality........ Probably the diet makes for a better poop! :thumb:


There are nine Barcelona Mediterranean beaches that border city for 4.5km. All Barcelona beaches have the EU blue flag of excellence awarded for water quality and services. Each beach has a different name, which you can see on the Barcelona beach map. In 2011 Barcelona was even named the best beach city in the world by the famous National Geographic magazine.

PersephoneD 07-03-2015 15:02

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Wow, what a discussion... Very entertaining! Thank you everyone. I think it's safe to say our passage plan will work around marinas with facilities... :D

weavis 07-03-2015 15:15

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PersephoneD (Post 1768282)
Wow, what a discussion... Very entertaining! Thank you everyone. I think it's safe to say our passage plan will work around marinas with facilities... :D

Yes.. no matter where you are, watching a couple of floating percys go past you whilst doing the backstroke is not pleasant...... :flowers:

PersephoneD 07-03-2015 15:48

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1767859)
I have a seatoilet with no holding tank. I also have a chem toilet for marinas. My marina has great facilities so I use them but if caught short or somewhere else.. I have the chem. My clean out of the chem toilet due to infrequent use is about every 4-6 weeks and the matter has percolated nicely into a pourable slurry......



My colvic Watson has a holding tank........ I had to clean it recently.:whistling:



That was something else. Febreeze is your friend.


My initial question was more about the procedural problems with authorities, as we normally would use the shore facilities (and are assuming to do the same in Spain). However this is a useful advice, Weavis, thank you (about PortaPotti for emergencies). Just looked them up, not expensive either, 80 for 20L tank.

weavis 07-03-2015 15:53

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PersephoneD (Post 1768316)
My initial question was more about the procedural problems with authorities, as we normally would use the shore facilities (and are assuming to do the same in Spain). However this is a useful advice, Weavis, thank you (about PortaPotti for emergencies). Just looked them up, not expensive either, 80 for 20L tank.

Most boaters are not keen on chem toilets. They can slosh and if you ever have one upturn......:facepalm: I keep mine stored so it cannot move, and also LESS water and chem in that recommended so if it does tilt, it needs to tilt further to spill. It shouldnt spill but........ :rolleyes:

Plus, If Im traveling, I usually empty the chem toilet and fill it again if staying in a berth where toilets are iffy..... Its just a backup. Be warned...... with kids on board.... you could be emptying every day :whistling:

Use the green chem

rwidman 07-03-2015 18:19

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1768202)
Actually, I think you would be doing us all a favour Ron Widman if you stayed away from the Med. Leave us and the turds alone. :flowers:

I'm not going to stay away as a favor to you or anyone. I have no desire to go there and plenty to see on my side of the ocean.

If you choose to come here, just be aware that there are laws for boat sanitary systems and they are enforced. Your boat can be boarded by armed officers and the sanitary system can be inspected. There are some pretty big fines for non-compliance. :nonono:

Prairie Chicken 07-03-2015 18:28

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

If you choose to come here, just be aware that there are laws for boat sanitary systems and they are enforced. Your boat can be boarded by armed officers and the sanitary system can be inspected. There are some pretty big fines for non-compliance.
Among many other reasons, that sounds like a good reason to stay out of your waters. Thanks for the warning. I'll continue to enjoy the Med.

Polux 07-03-2015 19:36

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conachair (Post 1768055)
It's quite easy these days to do some research on your own..

"Some 48% of urban centres lack sewage treatment facilities ..."


United nations source.
UNEP / MAP - United Nations Environment Programme - Mediterranean Action Plan

Quote:
"on the more populated European coast, where almost all sailboats are, urban sewage is treated."


Source?


Sometimes I don't get it.:rolleyes: You said:
Quote:

Originally Posted by conachair (Post 1767972)
About 80% of the urban sewage produced goes into the med untreated.....

Then you try to justify that statement with information that contradicts it: the urban centers on the med without sewage treatment are 48% not 80%. That percentage includes not only the European coasts of the Med but the African coast where most of the urban centers without sewage treatment are.

Regarding the European coasts (were most sailboats are) to have a much smaller percentage of urban centers without sewage treatment it is pretty obvious: Who do you think that have more ecological care and more demanding laws on pollution: Spain, France, Italy, Croatia, Slovenia, Greece or Palestine, Libya, Morocco, Algeria Tunisia and Egypt?

EC countries have demanding common mandatory legislation regarding the treatment of sewage.

conachair 07-03-2015 21:26

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
You asked for a source about 80% of sewage going into the med untreated. The source is there from the UN.

Where are your sources? Have you even been there? Seems extremely unlikely given your comments.

Polux 07-03-2015 22:06

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conachair (Post 1768502)
You asked for a source about 80% of sewage going into the med untreated. The source is there from the UN.

Where are your sources? Have you even been there? Seems extremely unlikely given your comments.

From the beginning we were referring to black water and treatment of human excrement. Sewage is a generic term and refers not only to that but on the context it is assumed you are referring to black water.

The 80% you refer don't relate to that but to waste water that has nothing to do with black water:

"Some 48% of urban centres lack sewage treatment facilities and around 80% of wastewater is disposed of in the sea untreated..."

UNEP / MAP - United Nations Environment Programme - Mediterranean Action Plan

Regarding the treatment of waste water (that has not to do with black water) on the European coast of the Med (EC countries) the last EC report says:

"This 7th Report on the implementation of the Directive describes the progress made up to the end of 2009/2010. ....

2.1. Collecting systems

Most of the EU Member States collect their waste waters at very high levels with an average rate of compliance equal to 94% (up from 92%). Some 15 Member States even reach compliance of 100%. All Member States have either maintained or improved on previous results. ..

2.2. Secondary treatment

In 2009/2010, a total of 82% of the waste waters in the EU received secondary treatment complying with the provisions of the Directive, four percentage points up from the previous Report. Four Member States reached 100% compliance and another six Member States had levels of compliance of 97% and higher....

2.3. More stringent treatment

This type of treatment of waste waters, also known as tertiary treatment, complements the secondary treatment when needed and is mostly targeted at the elimination of nutrients to combat eutrophication or reduce bacteriological pollution that might affect human health (such as for drinking water zones or bathing waters)[16]. There was an overall compliance rate of 77%."


EUR-Lex - 52013DC0574 - EN - EUR-Lex

boatman61 07-03-2015 22:45

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Oh Boy.... its Google time again...
How about sticking to reality.. not some desk jockeys fantasy of the perfect world that will never be..
:rolleyes:

conachair 07-03-2015 22:52

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1768557)
Oh Boy.... its Google time again...
How about sticking to reality.. not some desk jockeys fantasy of the perfect world that will never be..
:rolleyes:

:)

Difference is we've been there. Boats have a poo now and again in an anchorage. Not ideal but mullet love it. What's the big deal, the med has much bigger pollution problems than that .

Dauntlessny 08-03-2015 02:17

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux (Post 1768039)
Can you support that with facts? That seems to me an extraordinary claim. I believe the 80% may be possible on the North coast of Africa (and even so I have doubts regarding that number) but on the more populated European coast, where almost all sailboats are, urban sewage is treated.

More most coastal communities, urban waste is treated until it isn't.

Which means that in every big rain storm, the waste treatment facilities have no way to handle an extraordinary amount of water, therefore, it goes into the water totally untreated, though it may be grossly filtered.

Dauntlessny 08-03-2015 02:23

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1768253)
Nope. Those pipes are common and drain streets and parking lots and even areas behind berms. Not sewage. You see them all up and down the AICW as well. Let's not try to pass off photos for something that they are not to try and make a point.

Kenomac is more right than you are.

THose pipes do dump runoff, but they also dump excess waste that can not be treated because of the volume.

How do you think all the bacteria gets in the water? and why would they measure it, if 100%

weavis 08-03-2015 03:15

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dauntlessny (Post 1768629)
Kenomac is more right than you are.

THose pipes do dump runoff, but they also dump excess waste that can not be treated because of the volume.

How do you think all the bacteria gets in the water? and why would they measure it, if 100%

Actually that was weavis.

Blame where blame is due please......... :whistling:

weavis 08-03-2015 04:11

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
The bottom line is a logical one.

Fish, humans and animals all excrete. (Not boats :biggrin:)

On this basis, the sea can deal with the natural process within its own parameters, but seems to have difficulty in a short term disposal of concentrated waste with chemicals being mixed into it in vast quantities.

Now I read recently that Mount Everest is having a problem with all the excreta that has been, well, excreted over the years on its routes. Something to do with the cold preserving the once steaming piles forever. Natural biological breakdown of the waste is not occurring. That tells me that Everest is not really a family holiday spot.

Ive always found it good manners to keep my poop to myself and dispose of it in designated poop collection facilities, or failing that, consign it to briny deep when 12 or miles offshore. I am pretty sure that my small contribution is dealt with within several hours in the sea, but not happy about the chemicals used to break it down on land.

My next boat/Catamaran probably will have composting heads. Although I love the ease of a button, a macerator and a discharge hose, I also like the fact that my poop can be recycled in a completely harmless way, and if I happen to also own a decent garden at the time of owning aforementioned Catamaran and go home frequently........ I have my very own fertilizer.

Im not a paid up member of the 'save the world' club. A lot of that is politically motivated. I accept the conveniences of plastic although I deplore the longevity of it when discarded. However me refusing to use it does not slow down the production, or last time I looked it hadnt anyway.

All this moral outrage regarding poop........ is really someones PERSONAL disgust at a waste product that is going to be dealt with in an efficient manner by nature anyhows. Its not pleasant to have a bobber or two present themselves in front of you but thats how it is. I dont see anyone questioning how the big holding tanks on shore deal with the excreta they collect from the small holding tanks of the boats that do the" right thing."

I personally have been in the vicinity of a huge warship that discharged all their waste before heading to shore........ I have never seen so much 'waste' in my life....... tons of it. This must go on all the time.

Pooping is not pleasant when discharged in Marinas. Poor social skills in action. However dragging the government in to make a law will infringe further than ever thought and end up with a really bad situation on another level.

Better to remonstrate with the discharger from the marinas management or expel the shitstirrer in a "begone you varlet" manner than that. Armed Coasties boarding your vessel because you dont have a holding tank? Something is wrong here aint it.............

Im a firm believer in minding yer own ****.

boatman61 08-03-2015 04:37

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Weavis... dump the PortaPotti and them Chemicals... in a skip.
The Plankton and fish don't like the Marinade..:facepalm:

weavis 08-03-2015 05:05

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1768691)
Weavis... dump the PortaPotti and them Chemicals... in a skip.
The Plankton and fish don't like the Marinade..:facepalm:

Use the green chem........ its environmently friendly......can even go in septic tanks and not kill the bacteria...... :whistling:

rwidman 08-03-2015 06:48

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dauntlessny (Post 1768629)
Kenomac is more right than you are.

THose pipes do dump runoff, but they also dump excess waste that can not be treated because of the volume.

Nope.

rwidman 08-03-2015 06:55

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1768678)
...............Ive always found it good manners to keep my poop to myself and dispose of it in designated poop collection facilities, or failing that, consign it to briny deep when 12 or miles offshore. ........... .

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

Polux 08-03-2015 10:42

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conachair (Post 1768562)
:)
Have you even been there? Seems extremely unlikely given your comments....
Difference is we've been there... .

I wonder why you assume I have not been there: On the last 13 years I have cruised more than 25000nm on the Med, From Coats of Spain, Balearic Islands, Corsica, Sardinia, Elba Islands, Sicily, coasts of Italy, Sicily and Eolian Islands, Coasts of Slovenia, Croatia (and Islands), Montenegro, Greek Ionian Islands, Greek mainland coats, Saronic Islands, Cyclades, Crete Dodecanese, Turkey, some parts of North Africa. Besides the sailing knowledge of the coats I know a considerable part of the coats of Spain France and Italy cruising by car.

Do you have a similar level of knowledge about the region?

Polux 08-03-2015 10:53

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1768678)
The bottom line is a logical one.

Fish, humans and animals all excrete. (Not boats :biggrin:)

On this basis, the sea can deal with the natural process within its own parameters...
...

No doubt about that, the problem is the quantity. Consider a crowded anchorage and the big number of big mammals (humans) on a small spot that will be continually occupied (by those or by others on that anchorage) trough all summer months. You have not on the Med (in the nature) a similar concentration of big animals (and correspondent excrement), not even close.

The closest you got are some scattered dolphin bands that don't keep themselves permanently in some small bays and coves.

The problem is that the huge quantity of human excrement (if they were disposed on the water) would bring a natural ecosystem (were some animal excrement is part of it) out of balance very quickly and then the natural process would not be able to deal with it.

rwidman 08-03-2015 10:55

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1768557)
Oh Boy.... its Google time again...
..........

Yep. You can't put anything on the Internet if it's not true, right? :rolleyes:

weavis 08-03-2015 11:07

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1768767)
Nope.

Sigh.....

Although sewage treatment facilities are designed to accommodate and treat sewage from their service area, partly treated or even untreated sewage sometimes is discharged. Causative factors include decayed infrastructure ; facility malfunctions; or heavy rainfall events which overwhelm systems using combined sewers and stormwater drains (known as combined sewer overflows). In unsewered areas, improperly designed or malfunctioning septic tanks can contaminate groundwater and surface water, including coastal waters. In some developed regions (e.g., Halifax Harbor in Nova Scotia, Canada), raw sewage continues to pour into harbors, bays, and coastal waters. In developing countries with no on-site or centralized sanitation facilities, no opportunity exists for any type of treatment, and human wastes go directly into surface waters, including the coastal ocean.

Polux 08-03-2015 11:20

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1768280)
...
Contamination directly recorded from the coastal water ESPECIALLY OFF THE SWIMMING BEACHES.....if its not coming from the runoffs its coming from a a direct sewer outfall.

15% too much 'untreated' sewage and bacteria. Sewers breakdown and overflow into runoffs during high waterfall periods you know..... 15% is a lot given the length of the Coastline. Thats a lot of direct poop contact.

...... probably them pesky boats without holding tanks and the naughty fish pooping..:redface:



Contrast this with Barcelona beaches (and the East side of Spain) being awarded the #1 spot by National Geographic Magasine for the best beach and water quality........ Probably the diet makes for a better poop! :thumb:


There are nine Barcelona Mediterranean beaches that border city for 4.5km. All Barcelona beaches have the EU blue flag of excellence awarded for water quality and services. Each beach has a different name, which you can see on the Barcelona beach map. In 2011 Barcelona was even named the best beach city in the world by the famous National Geographic magazine.

I agree. The Barcelona area (Spain) has one of the highest concentration of industries and population in all med area. The fact that they manage to have blue flag beaches indicates the high quality and efficiency of their waste water and sewage treatment.

The blue flag is attributed by an independent ecological organization (Foundation for Environmental Education) that exists since 1985. One of the parameters is the beach water quality (that is a high one) :

"Water Quality
The beach must fully comply with the water quality sampling and frequency requirements.
The beach must fully comply with the standards and requirements for water quality analysis.
No industrial, waste-water or sewage-related discharges should affect the beach area.
The beach must comply with the Blue Flag requirements for the microbiological parameter faecal coli bacteria (E.coli) and intestinal enterococci/streptococci.
The beach must comply with the Blue Flag requirements for physical and chemical parameters."


Beaches

The analysis of the water is made by independent laboratories and the samples are taken by independent bodies. During a season at least 5 samples have to be taken and the first one at least 30 days before the beginning of the season. One of the samples has to be taken on the bathing area that has the biggest concentration of people.

more here:

https://www.blueflag.org/materiale/pu...tes-2015.pdf-3

Number of beaches with blue flag on countries with med coats (2009):

France: 285; Italy: 225; Greece: 425; Spain: 493; Turkey: 279; Tunisia: 5; Morroco: 25; Montenegro: 19; Cyprus: 53.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Flag_beach

of course this is a optional process and the lack of number of blue flags does not necessarily indicate a problem with pollution but a big number of blue flags indicates large extensions of coastal areas with no polluted waters.

weavis 08-03-2015 11:24

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
In context, the lack of use of a designated waste disposal unit in a public area will reflect in the unsightly reminders of the Sangria and Paella from the night before.

The sea is probably well able to handle a lot of waste, but might take longer to dispose of it. The more frightening aspect in this is because coasts are densely populated, the amount of sewage reaching seas and oceans is of particular concern because some substances it contains can harm ecosystems and pose a significant public health threat. In addition to the nutrients which can cause overenrichment of receiving waterbodies, sewage carries an array of potentially disease-causing microbes known as pathogens.

Animal wastes from feedlots and other agricultural operations (e.g., manure-spreading on cropland) pose concerns similar to those of human wastes by virtue of their microbial composition. Just as inland rivers, lakes, and groundwater can be contaminated by pathogenic microbes, so can coastal waters. Runoff from agricultural areas also contains nutrients such as phosphorus and nitrogen, which can cause overenrichment in coastal regions that ultimately receive the runoff.

The major types of ocean pollutants from industrial sources can be generally categorized as petroleum, hazardous, thermal, and radioactive. Petroleum products are oil and oil-derived chemicals used for fuel, manufacturing, plastics-making, and many other purposes. Hazardous wastes are chemicals that are toxic (poisonous at certain levels), reactive (capable of producing explosive gases), corrosive (able to corrode steel), or ignitable (flammable). Thermal wastes are heated wastewaters, typically from power plants and factories, where water is used for cooling purposes. Radioactive wastes contain chemical elements having an unstable nucleus that will spontaneously decay with the concurrent emission of ionizing radiation.

So whilst I am conscious of "poop and scoop", Im not sure that I wish to take all the blame for pollution in the sea, or even accept that my leavings are responsible for the vast problem we see around the world. My personal deposits are gone in minutes...... but the slurry of 'treated' assorted waste from sewage farms needs yet another look at, and perhaps banning genetically modified foods and hormonally enhanced animal products would help eliminate the weird stuff happening in our seas........not to mention the chemicals sprayed everywhere.

If Barcelona can do it........ ANYONE CAN........ they just have to be motivated and not pass the blame around and deal with the real problem.

We can be polite enough to not drop a plop in the marina..... but its more unsightly than being a real problem given the realities.

boatman61 08-03-2015 11:52

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux (Post 1768954)
No doubt about that, the problem is the quantity. Consider a crowded anchorage and the big number of big mammals (humans) on a small spot that will be continually occupied (by those or by others on that anchorage) trough all summer months. You have not on the Med (in the nature) a similar concentration of big animals (and correspondent excrement), not even close.

The closest you got are some scattered dolphin bands that don't keep themselves permanently in some small bays and coves.

The problem is that the huge quantity of human excrement (if they were disposed on the water) would bring a natural ecosystem (were some animal excrement is part of it) out of balance very quickly and then the natural process would not be able to deal with it.


Funny enough.. an owner assist from S France to Tunisia produced some surprises.. both of which I confess I've not seen in the Med between 1965 and Spring 2013 when this delivery happened..
Both were off the W coast of Sardinia.. the 1st surprise was travelling through millions of small Portuguese Man o War.. all dead... or so they appeared..
The other was a large whale.. nope not a pilot whale.. they're fairly common in the Med.. away from the coast.. nope this was a full grown 40+ ftr that breached about a quarter mile of the port beam as we passed the SW corner of Sardinia..
To me that was a great sight.. means the Med is not the sewer pit its been for 50 years or so.. since the package holiday industry kicked off... the good plankton are returning..:thumb:
Another good sign of improving water quality in the EU is the increase in Whale pods in the Biscay over the last 10 years or so.
Don't mean I'll change my habits at sea or on the hook tho'..:biggrin:

weavis 08-03-2015 12:02

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1769013)

Don't mean I'll change my habits at sea or on the hook tho'..:biggrin:

Oh Lord........ at least forget the funny jig before doing the nasty........ :whistling:

boatman61 08-03-2015 12:17

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1769023)
Oh Lord........ at least forget the funny jig before doing the nasty........ :whistling:

I leave funny jigs to the others... its for the pirate flag brigade..
and I could never ever bring myself to do the 'Racing Dump' in an anchorage which seems so popular with some of the Northern Mainlanders.. there's some real gross ba$turds out there..
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...ECXjeOZaTOxDNc

weavis 08-03-2015 12:28

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1769044)
I leave funny jigs to the others... its for the pirate flag brigade..
and I could never ever bring myself to do the 'Racing Dump' in an anchorage which seems so popular with some of the Northern Mainlanders.. there's some real gross ba$turds out there..
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...ECXjeOZaTOxDNc

The racing dump. Havent seen that in a long while...:thumb:

med 08-03-2015 14:21

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
There are the rules:-

"Spain has holding tank requirements which together with their pollution legislation, essentially mean that vessels cannot discharge untreated sewage within Spanish territorial waters (12 nautical miles). "

And the practice:-

1) Nobody has ever asked or checked whether I have a holding tank or not.

2) I have never seen a pump out actually used in Spain. (Indeed I have been tied up for three days during an August weekend at a big marina completely blocking access to the only pump out facility and no one was in the slightest inconvenienced.)

3) The fish will gobble it in no time at all. So if you are reasonable (i.e. don't discharge in a small anchorage during the day when people are swimming next to your boat), you are very unlikely to get into trouble.

4) Marinas in Spain are well equipped with toilet and shower blocks. So no need to cr*p into a marina.

goboatingnow 08-03-2015 16:40

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux (Post 1767814)
You mean, when you are on anchor on a nice small cove with other boats do you just **** on the water where others are taking bath?

That is the kind of thing that can ban yachts from anchoring near public beaches, as it is often the case.

What you would think if users of a public beech just went to the water and **** there whenever they have the need?


I believe it's what everyone does , I haven't seen a functional pump,out in France , Spain or Portugal


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Polux 08-03-2015 21:47

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1769289)
I believe it's what everyone does , I haven't seen a functional pump,out in France , Spain or Portugal
...

I never used a pumping station and I use the black water tank always when I am at an anchorage or marina. Like most I empty the black water tank offshore.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:14.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.