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PersephoneD 05-03-2015 12:05

Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
We are planning to spend a couple of weeks in Spanish waters on our boat.

Read in a pilot book that the holding tank is a must have 'for Spanish flagged yachts' since 2004.

Anyone who had experience with Spanish harbours - does it mean the boats which registered in Spain, or does it include visiting boats flying Spain curtesy flag? And how strict the authorities are with the latter?

Thank you

Xlantic 06-03-2015 10:01

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PersephoneD (Post 1766160)
Read in a pilot book that the holding tank is a must have 'for Spanish flagged yachts'

This is correct; one needs a holding tank to register a boat in Spain.

I don't know if they are required for visiting yachts but I would doubt it. In over 10 years cruising around the Balearics I never heard of this being an issue.


If it is any indication, pump-out facilities are rare in Spain, in my experience.

boatman61 06-03-2015 10:23

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
One day in the future.. Yes
At present.. No

Polux 06-03-2015 11:36

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PersephoneD (Post 1766160)
We are planning to spend a couple of weeks in Spanish waters on our boat.

Read in a pilot book that the holding tank is a must have 'for Spanish flagged yachts' since 2004.

Anyone who had experience with Spanish harbours - does it mean the boats which registered in Spain, or does it include visiting boats flying Spain curtesy flag? And how strict the authorities are with the latter?

Thank you

Yes it is mandatory and it has to have a deck way out. I never saw the Policia Maritima checking boats about that but I think it is very rude not to have an holding tank if you are staying the night on small anchorages or even by day is not practical: Do you sail away when you need to use the head?

Es obligatorio el deposito de aguas negras - La Taberna del Puerto

Artículo 24. Descarga de aguas sucias.
1. Está prohibida toda descarga de aguas sucias desde embarcaciones de recreo en las siguientes aguas en las que España ejerce soberanía, derechos soberanos o jurisdicción:
a) zonas portuarias,
b) aguas protegidas y
c) otras zonas como rías, bahías y similares.

2. Se autoriza la descarga de aguas sucias por embarcaciones de recreo en otras aguas en las que España ejerza soberanía, derechos soberanos o jurisdicción, siempre que se cumplan alguna de las siguientes condiciones:
a) que la embarcación efectúe la descarga a una distancia superior a 3 millas marinas de la tierra más próxima si las aguas sucias han sido previamente desmenuzadas y desinfectadas mediante un sistema que cumpla las condiciones establecidas en el apartado 5, o a distancia mayor que 12 millas marinas si no han sido previamente desmenuzadas ni desinfectadas. Las aguas sucias que hayan estado almacenadas en los tanques de retención no se descargarán instantáneamente, sino a un régimen moderado, hallándose la embarcación en ruta navegando a velocidad no menor que 4 nudos;
b) que la embarcación efectúe la descarga en aguas distintas de las señaladas en el apartado 1 de este artículo, utilizando una instalación a bordo para el tratamiento de las aguas sucias que cumpla las prescripciones del apartado 6, y que, además el efluente no produzca sólidos flotantes visibles ni ocasione decoloración, en las aguas circundantes;
c) cuando las aguas sucias estén mezcladas con residuos o aguas residuales para los que rijan prescripciones de descarga diferentes, se les aplicarán las prescripciones de descarga más rigurosas.
3. El apartado anterior no será de aplicación:
i) a la descarga de las aguas sucias de una embarcación cuando sea necesaria para proteger la seguridad de la embarcación y de las personas que lleve a bordo, o para salvar vidas en el mar.
ii) a la descarga de aguas sucias resultantes de averías sufridas por una embarcación, o por sus equipos, siempre que antes y después de producirse la avería se hubieran tomado toda suerte de precauciones razonables para atajar o reducir a un mínimo tal descarga.
4. Las autoridades portuarias y/o marítimas están autorizadas a precintar, mientras la embarcación permanezca en las zonas portuarias o protegidas, aquellas conducciones por las que se pueda verter las aguas sucias directamente al mar o aquellas por las que se pueda vaciar el contenido del depósito de retención de aguas sucias al mar.


The law applies not only to Spanish flagged boats but to all recreational vessels on Spanish waters.

boatman61 06-03-2015 11:54

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Well.. all I can say is.. the Spanish are missing out on some serious earnings.. must be thousands of boats they can hit with fines.. followed by compulsory installation in the Port your in before you can sail.
Have to drop them a line and bring them up to speed..:devil::thumb:

Kenomac 06-03-2015 12:25

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
We were in Spain on a US flagged vessel for three years. Never once asked about a holding tank or inspected. Customs and harbor police met us dockside many times, never asked about holding tanks.

med 06-03-2015 12:41

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
We cruise almost exclusively in Spain on a UK flagged boat. Never been asked about holding tanks. In the marina we have been in, we have never ever seen the pump out facility being used. Indeed, one time we spent 2 days tied up blocking access to the pump out.

However, as some one already mentioned, with crystal clear waters in small anchorages you will need some solution if you need to take a dump!

AndytheSailor 06-03-2015 12:50

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
I think you will find that all European countries in the Med and north sea with the notable exception of the UK require all yachts to have holding tanks. I sailed from Greece back to the UK last year and this was the case all the way though as was stated nobody bothered to check.

Prairie Chicken 06-03-2015 13:17

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
We sail exclusively in the Spanish Balearics and have never been nor heard of anyone checking for or asking about holding tanks. Ever! Many boats do not have holding tanks or they are simply not used.

Until perhaps five years ago there were no pump-out facilities on Mallorca. There are a few now but they seem to be very rarely used.

goboatingnow 06-03-2015 13:50

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Always had holding tank in the med , never used it once

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

rwidman 06-03-2015 14:12

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Without a holding tank, what do you do with your poop?


Holding tanks or some other means of preventing discharging poop into the water near shore have been required in the USA for 40 years or so.


If you're on the ocean away from land that's one thing but in a marina? I would hate to be sitting on deck enjoying my breakfast and morning coffee and suddenly a couple turds and a wad of toilet paper come floating by. :nonono:

atoll 06-03-2015 14:18

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1767305)
Without a holding tank, what do you do with your poop?


Holding tanks or some other means of preventing discharging poop into the water near shore have been required in the USA for 40 years or so.


If you're on the ocean away from land that's one thing but in a marina? I would hate to be sitting on deck enjoying my breakfast and morning coffee and suddenly a couple turds and a wad of toilet paper come floating by. :nonono:

very well fed harbour mullet in the med......some get to 2 ft long.......:whistling:

Prairie Chicken 06-03-2015 14:36

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Heads do have macerators. You don't see turds floating around. A littler macerated TP maybe, but no turds.

boatman61 06-03-2015 14:41

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken (Post 1767328)
Heads do have macerators. You don't see turds floating around. A littler macerated TP maybe, but no turds.

Toilet paper should be bagged... turds disappear quick..
TP takes a long long time..

rwidman 06-03-2015 17:45

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken (Post 1767328)
Heads do have macerators. You don't see turds floating around. A littler macerated TP maybe, but no turds.

Some heads have macerators. Some do not.

Kenomac 06-03-2015 17:51

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1767305)
Without a holding tank, what do you do with your poop?


Holding tanks or some other means of preventing discharging poop into the water near shore have been required in the USA for 40 years or so.

The question was for Spanish waters, not US. FYI Spanish waters are crystal clear unlike most US waters, but that's a different issue more related to water temperature and plankton.

What do you think we do with the poop? The same thing the fishies, Dolphins and whales do with theirs. Duh?

rwidman 06-03-2015 18:01

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenomac (Post 1767480)
The question was for Spanish waters, not US.

Yes, I understand that. I was asking what people in Spanish waters do with the poop.

Quote:

What do you think we do with the poop? The same thing the fishies, Dolphins and whales do with theirs. Duh?
If you don't have holding tanks or treatment systems, I have to assume that you just dump it into the water next to the other boats in the marina. I asked because I wanted to confirm that. It seems a little uncivilized to me.

Kenomac 06-03-2015 18:12

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1767488)
Yes, I understand that. I was asking what people in Spanish waters do with the poop.

If you don't have holding tanks or treatment systems, I have to assume that you just dump it into the water next to the other boats in the marina. I asked because I wanted to confirm that. It seems a little uncivilized to me.

Brace yourself Mr. Greenjeans.... In Spanish waters, we do what everyone else does including the fellow pictured.

Polux 07-03-2015 06:20

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1767286)
Always had holding tank in the med , never used it once

Dave

You mean, when you are on anchor on a nice small cove with other boats do you just **** on the water where others are taking bath?

That is the kind of thing that can ban yachts from anchoring near public beaches, as it is often the case.

What you would think if users of a public beech just went to the water and **** there whenever they have the need?

Dauntlessny 07-03-2015 06:25

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Forget the Med.

What do you think happens in the French Canals!

boatman61 07-03-2015 06:43

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux (Post 1767814)

What you would think if users of a public beech just went to the water and **** there whenever they have the need?

I really envy you your innocence... or is it Naiveity...:flowers:

rwidman 07-03-2015 07:14

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1767824)
I really envy you your innocence... or is it Naiveity...:flowers:

Is it really necessary to insult someone for asking a simple question? :banghead:

boatman61 07-03-2015 07:18

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1767837)
Is it really necessary to insult someone for asking a simple question? :banghead:

Is it an insult..??
Or is it a fact... how many times on the beach do you see folks wade in up to their waists and then just stand there for 3-5mins... then walk back to their towels.. come on.. the coffees perculating.

weavis 07-03-2015 07:20

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1767840)
Is it an insult..??
Or is it a fact... how many times on the beach do you see folks wade in up to their waists and then just stand there for 3-5mins... then walk back to their towels.. come on.. the coffees perculating.

Im not keen on percolated coffee.

NornaBiron 07-03-2015 07:22

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
I think most people in a marina would use the shoreside facilities when they need to.

People are very squeamish about black waste. Fresh, untreated poo is eaten very quickly by fish. We should be more concerned by the grey, sink waste containing detergents etc - that makes a lovely mess to swim through.

We have holding tanks (black and grey), the black is used rarely as pump out facilities everywhere (including Turkey, where it is monitored) are rare throughout the Med.

Common sense prevails in anchorages.

boatman61 07-03-2015 07:34

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1767844)
Im not keen on percolated coffee.

Not crazy about Expresso myself.. but hey.. I'm an Instant Gratification guy..:thumb:

weavis 07-03-2015 07:41

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
I have a seatoilet with no holding tank. I also have a chem toilet for marinas. My marina has great facilities so I use them but if caught short or somewhere else.. I have the chem. My clean out of the chem toilet due to infrequent use is about every 4-6 weeks and the matter has percolated nicely into a pourable slurry......

My colvic Watson has a holding tank........ I had to clean it recently.:whistling:

That was something else. Febreeze is your friend.

Kenomac 07-03-2015 08:18

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux (Post 1767814)
What you would think if users of a public beach just went to the water and **** there whenever they have the need?

I hate to be another to break the news to you... That's precicely what happens. Can't tell you how many times we've been anchored off a beautiful beach looking at the many hundreds or thousands of people using the beach. No restroom facilities in sight, or certainly far too few to handle the masses. Do you really believe that the vast majority of beach goers are "holding it" all day?

Polux 07-03-2015 08:19

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1767824)
I really envy you your innocence... or is it Naiveity...:flowers:

I prefer you call it civility. There is a big difference between pee in the water (pee is 95% water) and to poo on the water. I was talking about poo.

I don't say I did not ever make it at anchor but then there were a lot less sailboats and we did it or very early on the morning or at night when nobody was in the water and I must say I was always unhappy about the situation that never did looked right to me.

But on the last 13 years on any of my boats nobody made poo on the water on sheltered anchorages. We used every time the black water tank that was emptied away from the shore.

I can tell you also that I hate to be on crowded anchorages because I know that some just don't care and poo on the water. We use to look very carefully to the clear waters before having bath...and some times we just don't have a bath due to very suspect wastes on the surface. I just hate it and I will support any law that brings an end of what it is clearly uncivil to me.

The problem with laws to prevent something that is disgusting to most boaters and to the beach users is that they tend to be abusive and what could be simply solved with emptying the black water tanks away from shore is now by force of law much more complicated with countries like Spain or Sweden demanding the black water tanks to be emptied out of territorial waters, many miles away (12nm).

I am not in favor of all cruising sailingboats to have a blackwater tank but I am in favor of a ban from anchorages of all without one and in favor of a control on that. Also in favor of heavy fines to the ones that use anchorages having blackwater tanks but not using them (not very dificult to verify that). Some have them but don't use them because they can be a bit smelly sometimes.

Polux 07-03-2015 08:31

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NornaBiron (Post 1767845)
...
.. concerned by the grey, sink waste containing detergents etc - that makes a lovely mess to swim through.

We have holding tanks (black and grey), the black is used rarely as pump out facilities everywhere (including Turkey, where it is monitored) are rare throughout the Med.
...

Yes, I agree that only biodegradable detergents should be used with all the others banned by law.

No problem with emptying the black water tank away from the shore even if things continue like they are now, without a massive voluntary civil attitude from cruisers, the mandatory pump facilities in large quantities and electronic control cards will be the future.

Not a problem for the governments since it will be you and me and all cruisers that it will pay for them and it is good business to the country and to the marinas that will see their income raising since it will be necessary to go frequently to marinas with pump out facilities (more marinas and more marina clients).

rwidman 07-03-2015 09:09

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
It's hard to believe that I'm seeing "potty humor" from supposedly adults.

It also appears that Europe is not as far ahead of the rest of the world as some would claim. I might expect to see turds floating in harbors off of Africa or India but not the Mediterranean, playground of the rich and famous.

Dauntlessny 07-03-2015 09:12

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PersephoneD (Post 1766160)
We are planning to spend a couple of weeks in Spanish waters on our boat.

Read in a pilot book that the holding tank is a must have 'for Spanish flagged yachts' since 2004.

Anyone who had experience with Spanish harbours - does it mean the boats which registered in Spain, or does it include visiting boats flying Spain curtesy flag? And how strict the authorities are with the latter?

Thank you

By the way, where are you now?

I thought the holding tank thing was throughout the EU, both in terms of the law and that everyone ignores it.

Dauntlessny 07-03-2015 09:14

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1767944)
It's hard to believe that I'm seeing "potty humor" from supposedly adults.

It also appears that Europe is not as far ahead of the rest of the world as some would claim. I might expect to see turds floating in harbors off of Africa or India but not the Mediterranean, playground of the rich and famous.

What? Nobody ever said that they don't have macerators?

Also, being an American. I know of a lot of boats that never used their holding tank either.

conachair 07-03-2015 09:42

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1767944)
It's hard to believe that I'm seeing "potty humor" from supposedly adults.

It also appears that Europe is not as far ahead of the rest of the world as some would claim. I might expect to see turds floating in harbors off of Africa or India but not the Mediterranean, playground of the rich and famous.

About 80% of the urban sewage produced goes into the med untreated. Unfortunately many places will have a mass of mullet feeding on an outlet round the corner from a lovely beach. So not ideal, but a bit of poo feeding the fish in an anchorage is a bit low down the ladder.

Africa has about 2,000 miles of Med coastline. Not the cleanest sea in the world :(

Polux 07-03-2015 11:02

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conachair (Post 1767972)
About 80% of the urban sewage produced goes into the med untreated. ...

Can you support that with facts? That seems to me an extraordinary claim. I believe the 80% may be possible on the North coast of Africa (and even so I have doubts regarding that number) but on the more populated European coast, where almost all sailboats are, urban sewage is treated.

conachair 07-03-2015 11:22

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux (Post 1768039)
Can you support that with facts? That seems to me an extraordinary claim. I believe the 80% may be possible on the North coast of Africa (and even so I have doubts regarding that number) but on the more populated European coast, where almost all sailboats are, urban sewage is treated.

It's quite easy these days to do some research on your own..
Let me google that for you


United nations source.
Quote:

Some 48% of urban centres lack sewage treatment facilities and around 80% of wastewater is disposed of in the sea untreated, which means that a load of more than 3 billion cubic metres of untreated waters enters the sea every year.
UNEP / MAP - United Nations Environment Programme - Mediterranean Action Plan

Quote:

on the more populated European coast, where almost all sailboats are, urban sewage is treated.
Source?

boatman61 07-03-2015 11:52

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
There's them that live with Delusion...:whistling:
Then there's them that live with reality..:biggrin:

boatman61 07-03-2015 11:56

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rwidman (Post 1767944)
It also appears that Europe is not as far ahead of the rest of the world as some would claim. I might expect to see turds floating in harbors off of Africa or India but not the Mediterranean, playground of the rich and famous.

A harbour usually means a marina.. with the shoreside facilities..
On the hook is something else.. bag the paper.. flush the turd.. its broken up on the way through so basically fish food thats sunk or disapatted before its gone 20feet...
If your seeing floating turds anchored of a beach.. they've come from the beach...
Sigh... so many living in a wonderland...:rolleyes:

NornaBiron 07-03-2015 12:00

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1768091)
A harbour usually means a marina.. with the shoreside facilities..
On the hook is something else.. bag the paper.. flush the turd.. its broken up on the way through so basically fish food thats sunk or disapatted before its gone 20feet...
If your seeing floating turds anchored of a beach.. they've come from the beach...
Sigh... so many living in a wonderland...:rolleyes:

Common sense prevails :whistling:

rwidman 07-03-2015 12:07

Re: Holding Tank in Spain - a Must Have?
 
Now I understand the meaning of the term "Third World Country".


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