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-   -   Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f17/cruising-the-med-has-become-a-lot-cheaper-139698.html)

Palarran 16-01-2015 07:34

Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Anyone watching the fall of the Euro vs Dollar lately - wow. Three years ago when we entered the Med I was paying a buck forty per euro, now its $1.16. Cruising is about 17% cheaper if your from the States.

Anyone know what the price of a liter of diesel is now in the Med?

chuckr 16-01-2015 08:45

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
yep - sure is and we are loving it. and if the greeks do something dumb like deciding they are not going to repay it may get even cheaper.

now to get schengren fixed.

Kenomac 16-01-2015 08:52

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
My favorite 23 cent Spanish beer keeps getting cheaper! Just wish I'd waited until summer to fill up the fuel tanks.


I just checked online, the euro has fallen to $1.15 since you started the post 90 minutes ago.

Palarran 16-01-2015 12:25

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckr (Post 1726249)
yep - sure is and we are loving it. and if the greeks do something dumb like deciding they are not going to repay it may get even cheaper.

now to get schengren fixed.

The Greeks are never going to repay the loans - everyone including the Germans know that. It's impossible even with a country that actually intended to. But we as American's probably shouldn't snicker too much because I don't think were going to pay ours either.

beneteau-500 16-01-2015 13:12

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
They will keep paying the loans As for diesel prices see here gives prices across current price of fuel Fuel-prices-europe.info - Current Fuel Prices in Europe

MarkJ 16-01-2015 13:25

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Shengan will be fixed this year to give 12 months in with a 12 month extension! But wont be effective till late this year. So I am putting off my trip to the EU till 2016.

This year I will be mooching around the USA east coast :rolleyes::facepalm::whistling:

Maybe I can pick up a hottie and learn to eat burgers... :thumb:

Interestingly, with both the Cuba thing, the Euro and Shengan the American cruising grounds could change quite dramatically in the next year. Exciting times for all.

Palarran 16-01-2015 13:38

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ (Post 1726435)
Shengan will be fixed this year to give 12 months in with a 12 month extension! But wont be effective till late this year. So I am putting off my trip to the EU till 2016.

This year I will be mooching around the USA east coast :rolleyes::facepalm::whistling:

Maybe I can pick up a hottie and learn to eat burgers... :thumb:

Interestingly, with both the Cuba thing, the Euro and Shengan the American cruising grounds could change quite dramatically in the next year. Exciting times for all.

I can't believe were going to let you in... :wink: Without a doubt you can learn to eat a burger, the other, well, it depends on what you consider a "hottie".


Oh, just kidding, damit. I've seen the blog and was jealous.

Palarran 16-01-2015 13:50

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beneteau-500 (Post 1726424)
They will keep paying the loans As for diesel prices see here gives prices across current price of fuel Fuel-prices-europe.info - Current Fuel Prices in Europe

Of course they will keep paying the loans. As long as they can borrow the money to make the payment. Same as us. Good lord it will be interesting to see what happens when the merry-go-round stops.


If diesel is at 1,045 that's .45 less then I paid in Pilos last year. Thanks for the link.

Dauntlessny 16-01-2015 14:43

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
For those of you in the UK:smitten: and Ireland:smitten::smitten:

Monthly Fuel Price Tracker

med 16-01-2015 15:49

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Palarran (Post 1726461)
Of course they will keep paying the loans. As long as they can borrow the money to make the payment. Same as us. Good lord it will be interesting to see what happens when the merry-go-round stops.


If diesel is at € 1,045 that's € .45 less then I paid in Pilos last year. Thanks for the link.

That may be the price at supermarket pumps. At a marina it will costs a fair bit more. About €0.20 more may be. In France marina prices are about the same as autoroute prices which are about that much more than super market prices.

Polux 16-01-2015 16:10

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Palarran (Post 1726206)
Anyone watching the fall of the Euro vs Dollar lately - wow. Three years ago when we entered the Med I was paying a buck forty per euro, now its $1.16. Cruising is about 17% cheaper if your from the States.

Anyone know what the price of a liter of diesel is now in the Med?

Prices varies according with the country but in all prices are coming down following the fall of the price of oil barrel. They lowering has been significant.

Polux 16-01-2015 16:19

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Palarran (Post 1726387)
The Greeks are never going to repay the loans - everyone including the Germans know that. It's impossible even with a country that actually intended to. But we as American's probably shouldn't snicker too much because I don't think were going to pay ours either.

Unless they go out of the Euro (and that would be really bad for them) they have no alternative as to pay. if they were a lonely case it could happen but then there is Italy, Portugal, Spain, Ireland, France and more countries with big bills to pay. If they were allowed not to pay the markets would lose confidence on all indebted countries and the consequences would be disastrous with interests going to impossible numbers.

With the US it would be the same. If the market lost confidence on the US as a trustworthy partner the interests for the money to pay the deficit would rise sharply and the economic consequences would be disastrous for the US economy.

beneteau-500 16-01-2015 16:38

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by med (Post 1726527)
That may be the price at supermarket pumps. At a marina it will costs a fair bit more. About 0.20 more may be. In France marina prices are about the same as autoroute prices which are about that much more than super market prices.

Yes that is true but even if the price has dropped from 1.57 in Greece last yr to around 1.24 it's still a saving when I left porto di Roma Marina in August 2014 price of diesel was 1.88 euros , I have been in contact with family in Oz and my brother who is a big wiggy a Esso Australia believes the current price of oil will remain low for awhile

Polux 16-01-2015 17:10

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Probably one of the best Diesel prices on the Med are in Spain, now about 1.06/1.08 euros/L

Barra 16-01-2015 17:35

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Giddyup! Might add another year to the med cruise if this keeps up. Carib got 15% more expensive for us aussies this year and the eurozone another 10% cheaper.

Greece will never repay the loans but frankly thats just a side show to the real issues and right now with the swiss bailing on the euro peg the whole mess is beginning the inevitable unravelling.

Where this all ends is anyones guess but you can be sure there will be many more unintended consequences worldwide yet. We are in uncharted waters.

Great time to be swiss - take your francs and buy a boat in euros and come sailing in the med thats my tip!

med 16-01-2015 17:48

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux (Post 1726549)
Unless they go out of the Euro (and that would be really bad for them) they have no alternative as to pay. if they were a lonely case it could happen but then there is Italy, Portugal, Spain, Ireland, France and more countries with big bills to pay. If they were allowed not to pay the markets would lose confidence on all indebted countries and the consequences would be disastrous with interests going to impossible numbers.

With the US it would be the same. If the market lost confidence on the US as a trustworthy partner the interests for the money to pay the deficit would rise sharply and the economic consequences would be disastrous for the US economy.

Whether they pay back their loans or not is not connected to whether they leave the euro or not.

Cyprus (which still is uses Euros), basically defaulted.
I think it would be even more disastrous for Greece to leave the Euro.

They will default anyway. Sooner or later.

Polux 16-01-2015 18:06

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by med (Post 1726603)
Whether they pay back their loans or not is not connected to whether they leave the euro or not.

Cyprus (which still is uses Euros), basically defaulted.
I think it would be even more disastrous for Greece to leave the Euro.

They will default anyway. Sooner or later.

That has not to do with the default but with the attitude oft the party that has the bigger chance to win the elections in some days: We don't pay has been their campaign.

Merkel had said that if it was for real they would have to leave the Euro and many countries agreed. Leaving the Euro does not mean to leave EC. There are countries in the EC that don't have the Euro has currency.

Yes it will be worst for Greece but it seems they will be voting on a demagogue and believe in miracles.

Polux 16-01-2015 18:11

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barra (Post 1726598)
.. with the swiss bailing on the euro peg the whole mess is beginning the inevitable unravelling.

Where this all ends is anyones guess but you can be sure there will be many more unintended consequences worldwide yet. We are in uncharted waters.

Great time to be swiss - take your francs and buy a boat in euros and come sailing in the med thats my tip!

Yes, great for Swiss and for the ones that have money in Swiss Banks in Swiss Francs (great for Banks) but in what regards economy I heard about a decrease in their growth of almost 1% and that is not good at all. I agree, uncharted waters:wink:

moseriw 17-01-2015 09:48

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Palarran (Post 1726206)
Anyone watching the fall of the Euro vs Dollar lately - wow. Three years ago when we entered the Med I was paying a buck forty per euro, now its $1.16. Cruising is about 17% cheaper if your from the States.

Anyone know what the price of a liter of diesel is now in the Med?

Coming in don't forget to bunker in Gibraltar in July it was about 0,65/Litre
and in sicily 1,8/litre!!!

goboatingnow 17-01-2015 15:12

Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
The euro is falling in value by design, the ECB has announced massive QE. Everyone in the euro zone needs a cheaper euro. To help the economy recover. Even the Germans see what's happening due to an expensive currency

The swiss in no way wanted to allow the franc to float, it's a disaster for them, as they export 80% to the euro zone. But the had no real option as the ECB intends to drive the currency down.

Act now, when the Germans strangle QE, the euro will regain value.

Dave


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HVYJimmy 17-01-2015 15:53

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
[QUOTE=Palarran;1726461]Of course they will keep paying the loans. As long as they can borrow the money to make the payment. Same as us. Good lord it will be interesting to see what happens when the merry-go-round stops.


its called economic collapse , followed by World War 3 . just like the last time . interesting times we live in .

goboatingnow 17-01-2015 16:00

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
[QUOTE=HVYJimmy;1727242]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Palarran (Post 1726461)
Of course they will keep paying the loans. As long as they can borrow the money to make the payment. Same as us. Good lord it will be interesting to see what happens when the merry-go-round stops.


its called economic collapse , followed by World War 3 . just like the last time . interesting times we live in .


Boats the last thing you need then




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Polux 17-01-2015 19:18

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
[QUOTE=HVYJimmy;1727242]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Palarran (Post 1726461)
Of course they will keep paying the loans. As long as they can borrow the money to make the payment. Same as us. Good lord it will be interesting to see what happens when the merry-go-round stops.


its called economic collapse , followed by World War 3 . just like the last time . interesting times we live in .

I hope not. In fact Europe under the leadership of Germany and Merkel is being forced to be credible again in what regards accountability and counts. That started in Greece, Portugal and Ireland and with the exception of Greece everybody has been complying and solving their problems.

You are right it has to do with "as long as they can borrow" but what happened was that on all those countries reached a time where the market interests were so big and impossible to pay that was the same as saying: No more money.

The solution passed by a troika composed by IMF, ECB and EU that would lend the money with reasonably interests but only if those countries agreed to be subjected to a permanent control and acting according with directives given by their economists. If something failed.... no more money.

What happens in Greece is that now the biggest candidate to prime minister (on the next elections) says no more. We will finish with what has been called in all those countries as "austerity" and we will not pay the debt. Off course that means no more money and let them as only alternative to go out of the Euro because the market interests on money will go sky high. Going out of the Euro they will devalue 50% or so and then everything will be alright since the population will be paid with 50% of what is paid now.

The reason Euro has been devaluating regarding the dollar has to do with that, a necessary economic policy regarding coincidence of living status with the money to afford it.

Other countries will follow austerity, namely France and Italy and for the same reasons: When the market stop believing they can pay the interests will raise sharply and it will happen what had already happen on the countries with the weakest economy.

The truth is that almost all western countries including US have been living above what they can pay and the solution is only one: cut in everything. The problem is that no Politician will win any elections doing that and people will vote in the one that will say that austerity is not needed. They will come with the mirage of growth as if many countries of the 3rd world had not growths 4 times bigger.

chris4911 18-01-2015 05:08

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Just wondering, is it safe to go there?

goboatingnow 18-01-2015 05:20

Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
[QUOTE=Polux;1727371]
Quote:

Originally Posted by HVYJimmy (Post 1727242)

I hope not. In fact Europe under the leadership of Germany and Merkel is being forced to be credible again in what regards accountability and counts. That started in Greece, Portugal and Ireland and with the exception of Greece everybody has been complying and solving their problems.

You are right it has to do with "as long as they can borrow" but what happened was that on all those countries reached a time where the market interests were so big and impossible to pay that was the same as saying: No more money.

The solution passed by a troika composed by IMF, ECB and EU that would lend the money with reasonably interests but only if those countries agreed to be subjected to a permanent control and acting according with directives given by their economists. If something failed.... no more money.

What happens in Greece is that now the biggest candidate to prime minister (on the next elections) says no more. We will finish with what has been called in all those countries as "austerity" and we will not pay the debt. Off course that means no more money and let them as only alternative to go out of the Euro because the market interests on money will go sky high. Going out of the Euro they will devalue 50% or so and then everything will be alright since the population will be paid with 50% of what is paid now.

The reason Euro has been devaluating regarding the dollar has to do with that, a necessary economic policy regarding coincidence of living status with the money to afford it.

Other countries will follow austerity, namely France and Italy and for the same reasons: When the market stop believing they can pay the interests will raise sharply and it will happen what had already happen on the countries with the weakest economy.

The truth is that almost all western countries including US have been living above what they can pay and the solution is only one: cut in everything. The problem is that no Politician will win any elections doing that and people will vote in the one that will say that austerity is not needed. They will come with the mirage of growth as if many countries of the 3rd world had not growths 4 times bigger.


Not to sidetrack into politics, but this a very euro -centric German style view of what's happening

The simplest fact is the ECB has announced a large QE , ( print money ) programme to desperately stimulate the Eurozone major countries like Germany and France now all in affective recession. . In all fiat currencies , when you print more of it , the value falls. As the US have found put.

It has nothing to do with Greece or even Ireland , Ireland actually reduced austerity significantly in this budget, changing the deficit reduction 3 billion to 2 billon, because the economy is growing and the tax revenues are above target.. For countries like Ireland , with significant US foreign direct investment A cheap ( er) euro is a manna from heaven.
The German " austerity " thinking, is over , the ECB has signalled that by the QE programme which was resisted for several years by the Germans, however since their own economy is now in trouble and deflation stalks the Eurozone , they are now backing QE.

The Greeks will not leave the euro, doing so would cause a massive sovereign default , a default that would severely hit the German banks that have big exposure to Greece.

Personally other then , affecting the euro price for a while , ( buy euro boats now ) I don't see QE having enough effect to solve the issues in the major Eurozone economies.

It will have a significant effect on US. Boat builders though.




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yeloya 18-01-2015 05:21

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Not only crusing but buying european boat also has become cheaper for those who earn in USD.. :smile:

Euro can never be sustained against USD; how can you put a country like Greece and Germany on the same basket and hope that it could work..The cleaver britons have seen that long ago and stayed away.. :thumb:

As far as Greece go, whether they stay in eurozone or not, the situation is hopeless. For years, they have spent the money they never earned and they piled up a debth of 260 Bio (almost two times their GNP) They don't have any industrial output, depend heavyly on service business and public sector is huge in any standard. (Haven't you notice how many coast guard, custom officers they have even on small islands ? )
On top, they don't want to work harder for less , they reject every austerity measures, they don't want to pay taxes and the corruption is over the head . As a matter of fact, accumulated foreign investment (FDI) over the last 3 years are only at 5-6 Bio USD vs. for example 46 Bio for Turkey or 72 Bio for Chile.
Greece will not default either, how euopean governments are going to explain to their tax payers that their money have been thrown down the drain ?? The decision to take Greece in CE was a mistake for both side. I believe Greece could have been in much better shape had they stayed out of this CE illusion.

Anyway, Greece is still one of the best countries to cruise and hope that it will stay this way without having to introduce stupid taxes and regulations for foreign cruisers.

Cheers

Yeloya

arsenelupiga 18-01-2015 05:28

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
EU problems are many but top one in my view is racism or religionism.

dont see how they can avoid ethnic cleansing in not too distant future.

probably will spread around as well.

chuckr 18-01-2015 05:34

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chris4911 (Post 1727542)
Just wondering, is it safe to go there?


What in the world are you talking????:banghead:

goboatingnow 18-01-2015 05:35

Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yeloya (Post 1727548)
Not only crusing but buying european boat also has become cheaper for those who earn in USD.. :smile:

Euro can never be sustained against USD; how can you put a country like Greece and Germany on the same basket and hope that it could work..The cleaver britons have seen that long ago and stayed away.. :thumb:

The Euro was being sustained in value against the USD, because of the affect of German policies preventing quantitative easing. . Fiat currencies have no " instrinic" value against each other. The gold standard is gone a long time. , a falling euro is good for the Eurozone, and actually bad for the US.

Now that " austerity " is being dumped and the ECB is trying to stimulate business and spending, we might see some life., Ireland ( in the Eurozone ) and the UK out of the Eurozone , are both growing, even though the UK has a worrying downwards trend and has had the bad effects of QE that the Bank of England undertook.

The issues of the Eurozone have nothing to do with Greece. , the EU as a whole vies with the US as the worlds largess economic area, Greece is a pimple on that backside

The primary issues are that political unity is needed for monetary union, hence the euro project will now act to force Eurozone countries together even closer , implementing shared risk mechanisms, like Eurobonds, common budgetary policy , further tax harmonisation, and the fundamental idea of fiscal transfers.

Ps EU taxpayers aren't been asked to burn money , they ( at most ) may burn the interest and that only happens on commercial bonds. The principle will be rolled over for ever. ( and inflated away over time ). Most ordinary people don't understand money supply and think somehow money can't be created out of thin air ( actually it is every days! )

Remember it's paper money , paper is cheap !! ( once you don't overdo things )

Dave




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goboatingnow 18-01-2015 05:43

Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga (Post 1727550)
EU problems are many but top one in my view is racism or religionism.



dont see how they can avoid ethnic cleansing in not too distant future.



probably will spread around as well.


There is no doubt that we will see more immigration control. That's already happening , but I see no black lash. The vast majority of the people I suspect you mean , are EU citizens.

Also I think your comments are excessive , base purely on recent events etc

Let's leave this type of discussion off this forum


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David_Old_Jersey 18-01-2015 05:52

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chris4911 (Post 1727542)
Just wondering, is it safe to go there?

Depends. 1 in 3 Europeans are now Muslim Fundamentalists - me too (hedging me bets :biggrin:).

On the upside its approx usd5k per person to bring folks into Europe from Syria etc. Rocket launchers are charged extra.

yeloya 18-01-2015 06:14

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
[QUOTE=goboatingnow;1727553

The primary issues are that political unity is needed for monetary union, hence the euro project will now act to force Eurozone countries together even closer , implementing shared risk mechanisms, like Eurobonds, common budgetary policy , further tax harmonisation, and the fundamental idea of fiscal transfers.

[QUOTE=goboatingnow;1727553



That's exactly the point; Implementing common solutions/policies against every countries' different priorities, needs, demography, cultural values , etc. ; I don't see it very likely.. As long as the interests are common that will work but when conflicts arise, every country will go his way; we have seen this on many occasions..

Cheers

Yeloya

Palarran 18-01-2015 06:34

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chris4911 (Post 1727542)
Just wondering, is it safe to go there?

That's a funny question Chris. Have you traveled much to Europe?

Once you open up your eyes to the situations we have in the States, it's hard to be afraid to walk down any other country's streets. Temper the threat of what happened in Paris to what happens in Chicago or Detroit (maybe Atlantic City?) EVERY DAY.

Polux 18-01-2015 06:43

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chris4911 (Post 1727542)
Just wondering, is it safe to go there?

The elections are some days from know (25). You will have time to see what is going to happen, if a continuity regarding what has been made to recover Greece or a revolution in a sense that everything is going to change and we don't really know what is going to happening.

One thing is for sure, the party that is leading on the vote intentions wants another cut on their dept of 50%. They call that renegotiating the dept. EC cannot do that since if so they would have to do the same in Portugal or Ireland or other countries that are indebted to the Euro Bank and IMF and if they would do that the market consequences would be disastrous with interests going up in an uncontrollable manner.

So it all depends in what the previewed new leader, from a left radical party, is going to do, if he sticks to his promises or if he changes of ideas. Anyway it is complicated because he has no majority and I doubt you can find any other party that accept his proposals and if he compromises there will be trouble on the streets. I would say that probably there will be trouble anyway since when 40% of the population believes that things are going to change dramatically and then if nothing happens, trouble is on the way.

But I believe that will be restricted to Athens and large towns. I would be surprised if that had any influence on the Islands.

Polux 18-01-2015 06:58

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1727553)

The primary issues are that political unity is needed for monetary union, hence the euro project will now act to force Eurozone countries together even closer , implementing shared risk mechanisms, like Eurobonds, common budgetary policy , further tax harmonisation, and the fundamental idea of fiscal transfers.


Quote:

Originally Posted by yeloya (Post 1727574)
That's exactly the point; Implementing common solutions/policies against every countries' different priorities, needs, demography, cultural values , etc. ; I don't see it very likely.. As long as the interests are common that will work but when conflicts arise, every country will go his way; we have seen this on many occasions..

Cheers

Yeloya

I believe both are right and the problem is like Yeloya says even if I don't believe that EC will finish. In fact I believe goboatingnow is right and that the current problems will contribute to a faster EC integration because contrary to what Yeloya says it is of the interest of all EC countries, I mean a strong federal Europe. It is the only way to the survival of Europe as a Political and economic meaningful power and that is fundamental.

I agree with the need of Eurobonds that is a bit what happens in US regarding the different states (US as federation is the one that internationally warrants the depths of any of the states) but do do that in Europe you would have the European Parliament in control, approving the annual budget for any of the countries with the power to say no and demand revisions to comply with a number of economic factors (diminishing deficit, payment of debts and so on). That means a loss of sovereignty regarding countries that many local politicians don't want: they would not be able to win elections promising the impossible and sinking countries with the adoption of popular measures without the necessary budgetary back up.

Polux 18-01-2015 07:24

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga (Post 1727550)
EU problems are many but top one in my view is racism or religionism.

dont see how they can avoid ethnic cleansing in not too distant future.

probably will spread around as well.

I guess you don't live in Europe neither you have personal knowledge of the many European countries (that are not all alike).

On the all Europe is pretty much not religious. Many are atheists and the ones that say that they are catholic or protestants refers to that in a generic cultural way. Very few people goes to the messes on Sunday. Religious fundamentalism is a thing that is very far away in Europe.

I don't believe racism is a problem too, the real problem is lack of integration and the bigger problem comes not from Europeans but from many that immigrate to European countries. Normally those have a lot more religious believes then Europeans themselves, sometimes in a fundamentalist way.

When you decide to leave your country and go living in another country, many times demanding and changing nationality it is expected that you do accept and respect the culture of that country. If you become a French by choice it would be normal that French values and culture to become your own. That obviously has nothing with freedom of religion but it has to do with culture.

What we see particularly in Paris or London is that many that are now French or British instead of having accepted the culture of the country that had made them citizens rebel against it, keep themselves apart forming divergent groups that don't want integration but...I don't now what.... and many times with violence.

The problem of Europe is not what you say. The problem is that none of the moderated political parties have been able to deal with the problem (for many years) or many times simply acknowledge it, populations unhappy with the situation turns to the ones that promise to do something, the extreme right parties. That is the real problem as well as the lack of will of many that have immigrated to fit in and integrate.

chris4911 18-01-2015 07:33

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
I have not been to Europe, or much of anywhere yet, still planning and saving. Just looking at a map of the Mediterranean Sea, it looks like just one way in, past a lot of dangerous places. Pirates, terrorists?

dpddj 18-01-2015 07:44

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
MarkJ - you going to brave the lobster pot floats and make it as far north as Maine?

boatman61 18-01-2015 08:00

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chris4911 (Post 1727630)
I have not been to Europe, or much of anywhere yet, still planning and saving. Just looking at a map of the Mediterranean Sea, it looks like just one way in, past a lot of dangerous places. Pirates, terrorists?

Tell me.. TELL ME... WHERE..:jump:
I need some excitement... 70kt winds and 10 metre sea's are sooooo boring....:biggrin:

robert sailor 18-01-2015 08:08

Re: Cruising the Med has become a lot cheaper
 
Immigration is the number one issue in many places in the world. Birth rates decline like crazy as soon as females are highly educated and are a driving force in the economy. In Canada for example our birth rate is 1.1 and you need around 2.6 to keep the population steady. Without immigration the country would shrink and with it the tax base and social programs.

So we bring in more people from other places to fill the gap so to speak. This has worked well for Canada over the years but our multicultural policies have not worked that well as it has delayed the integration. Some cultures refuse to assimilate and that is the same situation in Europe. Big issue!


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