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sailorboy1 12-05-2014 15:08

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1539606)
?????:(

try to keep up ............................ so you can explain it to me later

smackdaddy 12-05-2014 15:16

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup (Post 1539600)
Like so many rush-to-judge scenarios, (and from a bemused distance) this seems to have been a salutary example of Chinese whispers, but even now we have some solid info, it continues:

Eric mentions a broach, and a bunch of people start talking "knockdown"
One is caused by a stalled rudder, the other by a breaking crest abeam, and/or a sudden spike in windstrength. Most sailors, even cruising sailors, will see more broaches than knockdowns, generally by one or more orders of magnitude.
Eric mentions water ingress as a result of the broach, and a bunch of people start talking "failure of the hull-deck join".

Use whatever terminology makes you feel good. But if the rail is in the water enough to put the mainsail under and rip off solar panels mounted on the stanchions, you've been knocked down.

As for the other Chinese whispers (whatever that is) 60-70 gallons of water coming into your boat is a sign of some serious damage. He said it came from a crack near the side-deck and gunwale. What should this bunch of people call that?

I guess I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

Andrew Troup 12-05-2014 15:16

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by funjohnson (Post 1539599)
My guess is that he is talking about being hove-to after the incident. Don't know about his boat, but our boom isn't out far enough when hove-to to hit the water like happened to them.

Also, with our fin keel, we use no jib and just the third reef to heave-to, but we also set our preventer as we need to hold the boom out and down for it to work.

Matt

Interesting, Matt, Thanks for chiming in.

This is a technique almost no-one on the www seems to know about (refer link below*). It's my preferred method in many routine instances of heaving to, and sometimes the only way which works reliably for 'difficult' underbodies, but I've never yet used it in really bad conditions

On the boats I've sailed we've always gone to a trisail, except once when the mast track was not usable and we used a jib only (which worked fine in the situation - plenty of wind, big rolling greybeards, but all from the same direction).

What's the worst conditions you've used this method in, and how far from the midline do you generally have the boom?


* https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1089287

MarkJ 12-05-2014 15:17

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sailorboy1 (Post 1539615)
try to keep up ............................ so you can explain it to me later


Rotfl

MarkJ 12-05-2014 15:20

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smackdaddy (Post 1539624)

As for the other Chinese whispers (whatever that is) 60-70 gallons of water coming into your boat is a sign of some serious damage.


That was just initially, wasnt it? Not each day thereafter? And then only when the rail dipped in the water. So sailing more upright would have stopped any ingress?

smackdaddy 12-05-2014 15:25

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ (Post 1539628)
That was just initially, wasnt it? Not each day thereafter? And then only when the rail dipped in the water. So sailing more upright would have stopped any ingress?

The rescuers in their press conference were talking about continually pumping seawater from the boat while they were aboard. They said it wasn't life-threatening, but it was constant. So the boat was continually shipping water.

Then RH mentioned 60-70 gallons...which is a pretty fair amount of water...especially coming in from an opening at deck level.

So who knows?

Snore 12-05-2014 15:40

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
The logical question is.... What is the proper damage control for a partial deck-hull joint failure? What should a reasonably well outfitted vessel have on-board to address this?

Matt Johnson 12-05-2014 15:52

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup (Post 1539625)
Interesting, Matt, Thanks for chiming in.

This is a technique almost no-one on the www seems to know about (refer link below*). It's my preferred method in many routine instances of heaving to, and sometimes the only way which works reliably for 'difficult' underbodies, but I've never yet used it in really bad conditions

On the boats I've sailed we've always gone to a trisail, except once when the mast track was not usable and we used a jib only (which worked fine in the situation - plenty of wind, big rolling greybeards, but all from the same direction).

What's the worst conditions you've used this method in, and how far from the midline do you generally have the boom?


* https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1089287


I'm guessing I got it from your post :thumb: as we never really used it until we started cruising. We only heave-to for breaks, to work on something, or to wait for sunlight when entering ports. Never had the need to do it in big seas, and highest wind I have used it in was around 30knts. In a big blow I'll just turn and run anyway.

Matt

smackdaddy 12-05-2014 15:52

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snore (Post 1539649)
The logical question is.... What is the proper damage control for a partial deck-hull joint failure? What should a reasonably well outfitted vessel have on-board to address this?

Another boat.

cwyckham 12-05-2014 15:56

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smackdaddy (Post 1539574)
It all depends on the conditions really. If winds are light - you're absolutely right. But that wasn't the case. Here's RH's description of the conditions:



If you're getting hit by repeated squalls that significantly change the wind/sea direction and you have your boom prevented for one specific direction - you're very, very vulnerable to a knockdown when that squall hits...especially if no one is at the helm.

Crash gybes are certainly dangerous and destructive as you say, but this set-up (preventer in wildly shifting conditions and no one at the helm) has just been shown sufficient to cause catastrophic structural damage to a (seemingly) heavily built boat.

The thing I still don't quite get is using the preventer in the first place if you're hove to. Don't most boats fore-reach in a hove-to condition, correct? And if so, why use a preventer? Maybe that's what you mean, RH, by saying you should have stayed more active on the helm.

I'm on somewhat shaky ground here. I've done some reading and been in some heavy weather, but I'm by no means an expert.

That said, I think that the conventional wisdom is that preventers are used in heavy weather so that if the boat gybes, the boom doesn't crash across. The boat will get pinned, and you will then release the boom across in a controlled manner using the preventer, stand the boat up and go on your way.

I have read posts from more than one very experienced person who has disagreed with this conventional wisdom, but I think a poll of offshore sailors would have the majority saying that preventers are used in heavy conditions.

I've never heard of another case of dragging a boom causing damage. I honestly can't understand how it could have. I don't think Eric knows either. He just knows he got knocked down, dragged the boom and there was damage. Not how it happened exactly or whether there was some other mitigating factor. This just shouldn't happen, but it did.

JPA Cate 12-05-2014 16:12

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Snore:

There are some products that seal in spite of the water: Splash Zone underwater epoxy; and there is epoxy putty; finally, there is Seal Once. We have used bothe the SZ and the Seal Once. They performed as stated. But IMO, the SO is just horrid to remove when you want to make a better fix.

In the case of Rebel Heart, if the crack were opening and closing, it would be a difficult fix to make, and should be thought of as extremely temporary.

To the guy above who said it was a knockdown rather than a roll down, I don't think it matters very much. Eric has the right of it, he couldn't see exactly what happened. Bad noises, holding on very tight, then the inevitable damage assessment.

We had a spreaders in the water roll down one time. Such events are momentarily disorienting the first time--It was scary seeing water pour in the dorade 18" from the mast! In our case, no structural damage was done to the boat, broke off our auxiliary on the windvane, bashed in the dodger windows. Below, some thing escaped their stowed positions. It is a lot of auditory and visual input, plus your body holding on and walking up the side of the boat. Not recommended. But if it happens again, you sort of know what to expect, and that will be a different experience.

Ann

Andrew Troup 12-05-2014 16:16

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Dragging the boom and causing it to buckle is (like broaching :) ) a factor primarily of speed. If you are jogging along and dip the boom, it's not going to bust a decently sized boom.

Occasionally boats with long booms and high speed /surfing capability, but which are not built like a 'skimming dish', will dip the boom in the bow wave, it's so high and coming from so far aft.

People who sail fast or have skinny booms should consider an end-boom preventer, but speaking for myself I prefer the adaptability of a mid boom tackle on each side, led to a lazy secondary winch, and almost always have a preventer snugged offshore, unless hard on the wind (and occasionally even then).

Especially in shifting conditions, and/or a slop.

The thing I like about a mid boom preventer is that (unlike a boom brake, or an end boom setup) you can arrest the boom at any point in the gybe, if something hangs up or changes.
And you can use it to stabilise the boom when close-hauled, say when putting in a reef or heaving to.

Matt Johnson 12-05-2014 16:34

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup (Post 1539677)

The thing I like about a mid boom preventer is that (unlike a boom brake, or an end boom setup) you can arrest the boom at any point in the gybe, if something hangs up or changes.
And you can use it to stabilise the boom when close-hauled, say when putting in a reef or heaving to.


We have a boom brake fitted, but you cant stabilize the boom like you can with a vang/preventer in light wind. We then run the vang tackle to the boom brake's mounting on either side deck when needed. Both options seem best to me.

Oh, and when we are going downwind, the mains is coming down or third-reef and were moving via headsail. It's usually the rear quarter wave that knocks our butt sideways and the headsail help us keep the stern into the wind.

Matt

goboatingnow 12-05-2014 16:44

Call for Help/ This American Life
 
I took the opportunity to listen to the radio show , not the transcript. I think eric and Charlotte have a very convincing and altogether more understandable account of their decision processes

eric did mention as a result of the knockdown ( charlottes term ) the interviewer used the term broach, that as far as he could tell he had breeches in the starboard. Hull and " leaks" from the hull deck joint. Whether this was from rail damage or something else was never determined. There was no mention in that interview of boom damage.

He makes it clear that while the boat might have remained seaworthy, the failure of various on board systems, combined with the continued illness of their child, convinced him to press the button. Again, no one but no one can fault his logic or second guess his decision.

I noticed in the interview charlotte mentioned eric was on the side deck when the knockdown occurred, whereas eric has said he as in the companionway. That may have just been a mis communication.

There is no doubt that the damage and water ingress in what is " supposed" to be a rugged boat is very worrying. The knockdown didn't seem overly violent.

The interviewer mentions a manual bilge pump , akin to something like the whale Gusher. Eric in this thread mentions electronic bilge pumps. So that may have caused sone confusion

All in all, leaving aside the perplexing damage, I find it both a credible account and a very reasonable set of decisions.

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

fryewe 12-05-2014 16:44

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snore (Post 1539649)
The logical question is.... What is the proper damage control for a partial deck-hull joint failure? What should a reasonably well outfitted vessel have on-board to address this?

Been thinking about this since RH's post on the topic...I think I would take a bit of old rope and cut it into short lengths and unweave and untwist the strands and fibers and mash them up in polysulfide or dolfinite into a holy mess...and then push it into the crack with a hacksaw blade. Perhaps the same thing could be done with rigging tape and caulk. Could carve a thin wedge and use it and a mallet to pound the mess into the crack if needed to get it tight.

Or do the same with waxed marlin.

Or make multiple narrow wedges and rap them into the crack side by side being careful not to open it any further.

Wrap a piece of Sunbrella or sail over the toe rail. Predrill holes as needed and use pan head screws to hold it in place...stretching it tight and putting screws at close intervals.

Or a combination of all these.

All things I carry on board.

Any other ideas?

Jim Cate 12-05-2014 16:47

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smackdaddy (Post 1539624)
Use whatever terminology makes you feel good. But if the rail is in the water enough to put the mainsail under and rip off solar panels mounted on the stanchions, you've been knocked down.

As for the other Chinese whispers (whatever that is) 60-70 gallons of water coming into your boat is a sign of some serious damage. He said it came from a crack near the side-deck and gunwale. What should this bunch of people call that?

I guess I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

None of us were there besides RH, and he was not in a position to do acute observation during the "knockdown" incident!

But in my experience (and this does include big storms far out to sea) knockdowns are primarily due to wave action, not wind gusts. Further, in sea conditions that cause knockdowns (better described as rolldowns in many cases), having a breaking wave top rip off panels and stanchions is far more likely than simple immersion whilst in the knocked-down state.

So, I don't have a problem with using a preventer in conditions such as Eric describes. I don't think he mentioned it, but I would suspect that he had a deep reef in the mainsail. That being the case, an accidental gybe while prevented would not have much affect upon the boat, and would be in itself not able to cause a knockdown. Even with a full main, it seems unlikely to me for that matter!

And we "put our money where our mouth is": we in fact routinely use a preventer at sea, any time we have the main set and the sheet eased at all. We have had the sail gybe countless times when sailing near DDW, and nothing happens that a small helm correction can't correct (either a windvane or autopilot has always worked for us). That's what the preventer is for!

I fear that we will never know exactly what the source of RH's leak was, and no amount of armchair discussion will change that. There is little to be learned from conjecture without facts, and it is all too easy to draw false conclusions from that practice. For those hoping to learn from Eric's experiences, please keep that in mind!

And Eric, thank you for participating in this discussion. I imagine that it is a bit painful at times and you are to be commended for taking the time to do so.

Cheers,

Jim

Andrew Troup 12-05-2014 16:56

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Almost any boat with a hull-deck join could have it damaged in a knockdown in a worst-case scenario: beam on to a genuine breaking crest, water avalanching down the steep front (rather than spilling mostly down the back as in what is usually called a "breaking" wave offshore - another instance of 'grade inflation' in terminology, leading to misunderstandings and blazé attitudes)

The foamed-up water in a genuine deep-sea breaker can be travelling considerably faster than the underlying solid-water waveform (like a jet taking off from a carrier which is already doing 30 knots) and can easily exert enough lateral acceleration to detach the boat from the face of the wave and throw the hull sideways into mid air, so that the mast rotates down to leeward and the hull lands in the trough on its side or worse. This is what smashes cabin trunks off, pops portlights, etc. It's a miracle if the interior of a cruising boat is not instantly rendered almost unlivable by the boat falling onto solid water from a height at an unfavourable angle.

And this is rather likely to cause separation or structural failure of the hull-deck join, almost regardless of the scantlings and detailing and workmanship. (With the possible exception of well found metal hulls)

That's of course the most extreme example of a knockdown, and vanishingly rare. But any sort of knockdown is a serious occurrence, requiring either wind or (more often) sea of challenging nature.

Broaching (at its most benign) is a minor happenstance, which in my first boat, (until we built a decent rudder, retuned the rig and fixed the draft problems in the sails), would happen on wet grass in any sort of breeze.

It would happen in flat water (and, with inattention, even in a constant breeze).
Any resemblance to a knockdown of ANY sort is negligible and accidental.

Broaching is almost always avoidable, like spinning out in a car, either by design and attention to trim, and/or by attentive helming ... and the major reason for the mast travelling some way towards the horizontal is centrifugal force, which in turn arises from the rapid rate of yaw, due to the rudder stalling out.

I think it's a shame when people use the nearest word which comes to hand; it makes for misunderstandings which (on the www) seem inexorably to compound.

Good communication is "message sent = message received", but this relies on the recipient checking with the sender before making idiosyncratic assumptions about what words mean.

If Rebel Heart broached and THEN was hit beam-on by a breaking wave sufficient to slam the boat further over, then sure, that's broaching into a knockdown - but I'll wait for Eric to clarify if that happened, and if so, does he think the force from the knockdown could have caused a failure of the hull-deck bond.

As opposed to (say) bending/busting some hardware sufficient to stretch some fasteners and disturb the sealant around them and possibly something else: maybe expose some fastening holes which were previously blanked off by mounting plates?

Could it be the padeyes for the preventer?

It seems to me that some have leapt to the most dire scenario interpretation possible, on limited info.

goboatingnow 12-05-2014 17:02

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Personally in any significant sea state with the boom eased out. I will rig a preventer. Many events have proved this to be a wise choice from experience

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

fryewe 12-05-2014 17:04

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate (Post 1539704)
None of us were there besides RH, and he was not in a position to do acute observation during the "knockdown" incident!...

I fear that we will never know exactly what the source of RH's leak was, and no amount of armchair discussion will change that. There is little to be learned from conjecture without facts, and it is all too easy to draw false conclusions from that practice. For those hoping to learn from Eric's experiences, please keep that in mind!

And Eric, thank you for participating in this discussion. I imagine that it is a bit painful at times and you are to be commended for taking the time to do so.

Not interested in armchair discussion as such and I understand that a knockdown especially at night can be disorienting. But with several days of daylight to evaluate and stop leakage I am interested in finding out what measures were taken to control the effects.

The initial and continuing degradation of electrical systems seemed to be a major issue. Perhaps if the leakage had been stopped or minimized the effect on them would have been minimized as well.

My training and experience is that if you have an uncontrolled leak or flooding at sea you do whatever is possible to limit it...including tearing out bulkheads/overheads/decks to get your eyes and hands on the problem.

Even if you can't stop the leak you can reduce it and deflect it toward non-critical equipment.

I have seen no discussion of such action and wonder if they were taken but unmentioned...or not considered...or considered and discarded. Or none of the above.

SaltyMonkey 12-05-2014 17:09

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smackdaddy (Post 1539636)
The rescuers in their press conference were talking about continually pumping seawater from the boat while they were aboard. They said it wasn't life-threatening, but it was constant. So the boat was continually shipping water.

Yes but they weren't continually pumping. Only a couple of times a day for a few minutes.

colemj 12-05-2014 17:16

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
I have a hard time understanding how a few 1/4" holes with stretched sealant or even fully opened allows in 70gph of water. I believe Eric's account of a breached hull-deck joint - that makes sense for that amount of water. However, I have a difficult time balancing that with Minaret's argument (with supporting data) that it takes an equivalent of a drop from a crane onto concrete to cause this type of damage.

Good thing he wasn't in a French production boat or a catamaran.

Mark

MarkJ 12-05-2014 17:21

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
I agree with Fryewe.

To get the rail out of the water, tack. Then dry it out and start below looking for light, listening for creaking, or hang over the side and look.

Then most boats have an ample supply of epoxy underwater putty, or straight fibreglass repairs as its out of the water, on the high side.

minaret 12-05-2014 17:26

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj (Post 1539732)
I have a hard time understanding how a few 1/4" holes with stretched sealant or even fully opened allows in 70gph of water. I believe Eric's account of a breached hull-deck joint - that makes sense for that amount of water. However, I have a difficult time balancing that with Minaret's argument (with supporting data) that it takes an equivalent of a drop from a crane onto concrete to cause this type of damage.

Good thing he wasn't in a French production boat or a catamaran.

Mark



Believe that was 70 per day.

colemj 12-05-2014 17:28

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
I'm sorry, but as someone who has done a lot of fiberglass work, nobody is repairing a hull-deck joint in snotty conditions, underway, regardless of what one has on board. Stuffing a pillow in it? Maybe. But epoxy putty? No way. Stuffing frayed ropes goo'd up with sealant? That is so funny I'm still laughing. A real fiberglass repair? Well, get out your grinder and power it up, tear out all cabinetry, etc. If you plan on epoxy, no way - 12hr cure time minimum. If you plan on polyester, mix it hot and hope for the best. The next wave, however, will most likely rip it open again. This assume, of course, that the open joint has magically become completely stationary.

Mark

boatman61 12-05-2014 17:28

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Broad reaching... preventer...??
Heavy sea's/wind... why not reefed down...??
Squalls no problem.. if hove to the boat will adjust.. okay maybe bouncy for a few minutes.. fore-reaching.. whats the problem.. your miles from land... shut down and take it easy..
Sorry Eric.. I don't get it.. not from what I've read to date.. and at 900 miles off Mexico are you sure your in the ICTZ..
Not a criticism of your decision.. far from it.. you did the right thing as far as I'm concerned with a baby on board..
However your seamanship I do question... the only time I'd rig a preventer is downwind.. no way on a broad reach.
And even on a broad reach in the conditions you describe I'd be reefed to maximum.. but F5-6.. and I do know what the S. Pacific can be like.. you'll roll a lot.. but maybe you should put your A/P on max setting next time you go there..:D

minaret 12-05-2014 17:28

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ (Post 1539742)
I agree with Fryewe.

To get the rail out of the water, tack. Then dry it out and start below looking for light, listening for creaking, or hang over the side and look.

Then most boats have an ample supply of epoxy underwater putty, or straight fibreglass repairs as its out of the water, on the high side.




+1. Also, don't discount butyl tape and bag film, or any other type of plastic film. Just high side it and get it as dry as possible, then butyl a bag over the leaking area.

minaret 12-05-2014 17:31

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj (Post 1539752)
I'm sorry, but as someone who has done a lot of fiberglass work, nobody is repairing a hull-deck joint in snotty conditions, underway, regardless of what one has on board. Stuffing a pillow in it? Maybe. But epoxy putty? No way. Stuffing frayed ropes goo'd up with sealant? That is so funny I'm still laughing. A real fiberglass repair? Well, get out your grinder and power it up, tear out all cabinetry, etc. If you plan on epoxy, no way - 12hr cure time minimum. If you plan on polyester, mix it hot and hope for the best. The next wave, however, will most likely rip it open again. This assume, of course, that the open joint has magically become completely stationary.

Mark



Not all THAT much fiberglass work. Everybody who knows anything knows about this stuff.



WaterWeld | Specially Formulated Epoxy Putty

fryewe 12-05-2014 17:54

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj (Post 1539752)
I'm sorry, but as someone who has done a lot of fiberglass work, nobody is repairing a hull-deck joint in snotty conditions, underway, regardless of what one has on board. Stuffing a pillow in it? Maybe. But epoxy putty? No way. Stuffing frayed ropes goo'd up with sealant? That is so funny I'm still laughing. A real fiberglass repair? Well, get out your grinder and power it up, tear out all cabinetry, etc. If you plan on epoxy, no way - 12hr cure time minimum. If you plan on polyester, mix it hot and hope for the best. The next wave, however, will most likely rip it open again. This assume, of course, that the open joint has magically become completely stationary.

Mark

I'm sorry, but as someone who has done a lot leak stopping at sea (including at depth on submarines where pressures are a bit above the few feet of head from a breaking wave), nobody but you is talking about repairing a hull-deck joint. So far the discussion has been about damage control.

I have stopped leaks that sprayed water forty feet across compartments with marlin wraps...have sat on a pillow on top of a valve operator to minimize and deflect water so a test depth dive can be completed...have used strong backs and bandit and rubber to stop leaks from holes in piping...have stuffed marlin in seams and pounded it home to stop low pressure leaks...have stopped leaks using homemade fittings and gaskets and seals to replace failed ones.

Damage control is on-the-spot engineering. Most of the methods I have used have been born of urgent need by sailors who preceded me and passed on to following crews. The materials that have been found to be handy are now mandated on every ship and contained in damage control kits and crews train on their use continually. Perhaps discussing this event will come up with another good idea.

Glad I was able to pull your funny-bone but I think the joke is on you. So go back to looking for the 110VAC for your grinder and when the discussion gets around to how to repair that hull deck joint we'll let you know.

boatman61 12-05-2014 17:57

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Got holed at the waterline on a timber boat in my early days.. went on the opposite tack and shoved a towel in the hole.. got me home.. okay.. only 60 miles but...:whistling:
Try not to heel so much.. its down to how you set your sails.

goboatingnow 12-05-2014 18:01

Call for Help/ This American Life
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1539795)
Got holed at the waterline on a timber boat in my early days.. went on the opposite tack and shoved a towel in the hole.. got me home.. okay.. only 60 miles but...:whistling:
Try not to heel so much.. its down to how you set your sails.


I found personally a combination of frightened skipper , sinking boats and cushions to be remarkably effective in conjuring up solutions. I once lost 4 towels, two cushions and my favourite towing bathrobe to a god dammed leak.

Of course that assumes you can get to the leak. ?

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

boatman61 12-05-2014 18:11

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
You'd be amazed what a body length of 6ft 2" combined with terror can achieve with toes and heels hooked into the guard wires as you hang over the side up by the bow.. try it sometime..:whistling:

Matt Johnson 12-05-2014 18:16

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
I though wax toilet bowl ring and dish towel were the cure to cracks in hull?

Pelagic 12-05-2014 18:17

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Eric... So glad you and your family have survived that compilation of offshore challenges and media scrutiny.

As far as I am concerned, only you have earned the right to judge "hindsight", .....but I do have one question...
...Do you think an extra pair of strong adult hands would have helped to ease the boat management pressures on you when the boats physical damages and your fatigue compounded upon each other?
Might that have made enough difference if your daughter's condition had improved and outside help was not available?

goboatingnow 12-05-2014 18:26

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1539812)
You'd be amazed what a body length of 6ft 2" combined with terror can achieve with toes and heels hooked into the guard wires as you hang over the side up by the bow.. try it sometime..:whistling:


I find children held by the ankles to be remarkably useful leak inspection systems :)

Dave


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mbianka 12-05-2014 18:26

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1539799)
I found personally a combination of frightened skipper , sinking boats and cushions to be remarkably effective in conjuring up solutions. I once lost 4 towels, two cushions and my favourite towing bathrobe to a god dammed leak.

Of course that assumes you can get to the leak. ?

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Indeed. I found a bunch of plastic grocery bags stuffed into a four inch gash just forward of the keel curtailed a gushing leak pretty good. Followed up with an improvised crash diaper made out of a poly tarp pretty much sealed things up until the boat could be pulled and proper repairs made. It was not pretty but, it worked.

Palarran 12-05-2014 18:31

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic (Post 1539818)
As far as I am concerned, only you have earned the right to judge "hindsight", .....but I do have one question...
...Do you think an extra pair of strong adult hands would have helped to ease the boat management pressures on you when the boats physical damages and your fatigue compounded upon each other?
Might that have made enough difference if your daughter's condition had improved and outside help was not available?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel heart (Post 1538688)
If I had to do it all over again I obviously wouldn't leave the dock, but there's not a whole hell of a lot I think in hindsight I could have reasonably done or any glaring oversights I made.


Not according to an earlier post.

It would seem to me that an easier question would have been "do you think you as a family should have sailed offshore for smaller distances before starting the biggest passage of them all".

MarkJ 12-05-2014 18:33

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
On a 3,000 mile passage you got plenty of time to work out ways to plug a hole. And when it means you wont have to pump by hand every day you'll have it patched in no time.

rebel heart 12-05-2014 18:35

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1539753)
Broad reaching... preventer...??
Heavy sea's/wind... why not reefed down...??
Squalls no problem.. if hove to the boat will adjust.. okay maybe bouncy for a few minutes.. fore-reaching.. whats the problem.. your miles from land... shut down and take it easy..
Sorry Eric.. I don't get it.. not from what I've read to date.. and at 900 miles off Mexico are you sure your in the ICTZ..
Not a criticism of your decision.. far from it.. you did the right thing as far as I'm concerned with a baby on board..
However your seamanship I do question... the only time I'd rig a preventer is downwind.. no way on a broad reach.
And even on a broad reach in the conditions you describe I'd be reefed to maximum.. but F5-6.. and I do know what the S. Pacific can be like.. you'll roll a lot.. but maybe you should put your A/P on max setting next time you go there..:D

A broad reach is a pretty downwind to me. Next over on the sailing chart is a pure run where you're talking ddw type stuff; I'd never sail like that except in a bay or in relatively benign conditions.

I was reefed down pretty well, I experimented with everything from 1-3 reef points.

I guess it's possible we weren't in the ITCZ, but we had constant squalls, periods of calms, and were south of the easterly trades. Sure seemed mighty ITCZ-ish to me.

avb3 12-05-2014 18:42

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by funjohnson (Post 1539817)
I though wax toilet bowl ring and dish towel were the cure to cracks in hull?

I've got three toilet bowl wax rings in my boat for just in case.

boatman61 12-05-2014 18:45

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
You left from Mexico... I left from Panama.. now my E'lies were more from the SE... and to be honest until we were well W of the Galapagos there was hardly any wind of note.. but a shitty swell..
I am however still surprised that you were on a broad reach... why did you not take down the main and run under headsail alone..
That's what I did all the way to Vanuatu..


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