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colemj 10-05-2014 21:03

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by minaret (Post 1538236)
All I know is that if that joint did indeed fail, the forces involved were astronomical.

Or there was a problem with that particular joint. You seem to miss this point.

And don't get the wrong impression - I'm not saying that the boat was not suitable for ocean passaging (quite the opposite), I was pointing out that even a "blue water cruiser" can suffer those fates that are gleefully pasted on other "less-worthy" boats without thought.

Mark

downunder 10-05-2014 21:08

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj (Post 1538220)
It seemingly also blows all of the "what makes a bluewater cruiser", "why catamarans are not ocean vessel" and "huntabentalina are not suitable ocean boats" threads straight out of the window.

Mark

Exactly what I was thinking Mark. :thumb:

Sounds from Eric's comments they were battling uncomfortable conditions for some days.

Cheers

colemj 10-05-2014 21:10

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder (Post 1538244)
Sounds from Eric's comments they were battling uncomfortable conditions for some days.

For their boat and their particular challenges, I agree.

Mark

colemj 10-05-2014 21:45

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by minaret (Post 1538236)
Dunno, Eric hasn't said anything about conditions during this knockdown. All I know is that if that joint did indeed fail, the forces involved were astronomical.

Being prolific bloggers, we had almost a blow-by-blow account of their passage. Seems like since they were noting when they had sex, they could have also thrown in a couple of words about being knocked down in horrific conditions. The two events were very close to each other in time...

So you are saying astronomical forces can cause failures of a "blue water cruiser" - then they could also cause failure for other not-so-bluewatery? Do you think all catamarans would have been flipped in these conditions? Are you saying that no huntabentalina could have survived the same conditions?

Because this one boat suffered, all others are less?

If you aren't saying this, then many of your (and other's) premises here have been scandalized.

Actually, you have said that if this boat's hull-deck joint failed, then the forces and conditions had to be astronomical. I find that disappointing reasoning of cause/effect from someone with your background. You have never seen a problem with a precious "blue water boat"?

Mark

colemj 10-05-2014 21:49

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Sorry I responded twice to your one post - somehow things got confused on the thread presentation and it presented that post again. I thought it was a new one and posted additional thoughts. I wasn't meaning to harp on it.

Mark

DumnMad 10-05-2014 22:50

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj (Post 1538232)
Ah, OK. Yes, there is a lot to be believed to reach that point. Both that the conditions to cause that happened (assuming the vessel was as sound as you say), as well as that those conditions would cause failures in the types of vessels I mentioned. It is difficult to picture our boom in the water in F5 conditions. In fact, we just did a marvelous overnight in F6 and I don't think our boom went any further than 5-10* closer to the water than upright.

Also, the conditions described, as well as a single knockdown (if that happened), has happened countless times on many boats not built to those scantlings with no structural damage. Google the internet for lightweight racing boats experiencing their mast in the water.

It is possible that other vessels may not have found themselves in that attitude in those conditions. Again, I know we would surely be lost if our mast was in the water. Are you saying that these were conditions that would capsize a multihull? Is Eric saying that?

Mark

They were in the Pacific! Could have gale from one direction and sizeable seas from another.

JPA Cate 11-05-2014 00:25

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Eric stated that he thought a counter current to the direction of the winds they experienced is what peaked up the seas.

Ann

JPA Cate 11-05-2014 00:50

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
This is for Kenomac and others who have not passed that way as yet. The ITCZ can contain squalls, and squalls in the Pacific in that region sometimes have a lot more wind in them than one would at first expect. A knockdown is pretty believable, to me, especially with a fatigued crew, and conflicting wave sets.

I know HC's have the mystique of being "hell for stout", but they were Taiwan built boats, and as such, subject to the known failings of the type. Eric and Charlotte are too young to have easily have found out all the failings that made Jim (my husband) decide he did not want any Taiwan built boat any time any where. That there might have been a sealant failure seems not unimagineable to me.

Seventy gallons per day is a significant encroachment of water. Look at your dinghy fuel tank. Five gallons. Now figure 70, A lot of pumping. Now, a while back, there was a CF faction essentially expressing the opinion that Eric should have abandoned Charlotte and the kids to their safety (being rescued) and Eric carried on and saved the day with a successful arrival--suggested destinations ranging from the Galapagos to Atuona, in the Marquesas. Now exactly how he was to accomplish this with sails damaged, meeting pumping needs, repairing leaks sails, getting rest, and without crew has IMO not been satisfactorily addressed. I wouldn't want terribly much to stay aboard a boat taking on that much water, wuss that I am! I'd be concerned, what if it opened up more?

I think Kenomac's call of BS was a little over the top, and he has perhaps not yet stated his reasons for having a scornful opinion. If he should state them, perhaps he would no longer sound OTT.

Still and all, "Judge not, that ye be not judged also." We weren't there, we did not share their experience nor their concerns, so I think we should let Eric and Charlotte tell us what they want to, and we go think about it, as weavis suggested, we don't know nearly enough of EVERYTHING. Generalizing, and simplification, I'm afraid, will remove meaning from the experiences of Rebel Heart's crews experiences, and decrease our understanding.

Ann

ka4wja 11-05-2014 05:18

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Eric (Rebel Heart),
Welcome home!
I'm glad you and family are doing well.

Please know that the thoughts and prayers of everyone here are with you and your family (and especially that your daughter makes a full recovery).


Fair winds..

John
s/v Annie Laurie

ka4wja 11-05-2014 05:20

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Paul,
1) Easy answer...
Quote:

Originally Posted by Viking Sailor (Post 1538122)
John, You are correct. Thanks for the updated info. What Ham frequencies would you recommend for emergency communications? Maybe ordered by area and time-of-day.

With the usual caveats that it's no substitute for an EPIRB, nor HF-DSC radio, etc. if you wanted a ham radio frequency to use in an emergency, it would be 14.300mhz USB....used/monitored just about round-the-clock...

As I wrote above....
There is the Intercon Net, MMSN, and the Pacific Seafarer's Net...all on 14.300mhz....
14300.net

The BEST 20-Meter Net Going! | A member of the 14.300 mHz net family.
1100z - 1600z

Maritime Mobile Service Network
1600z - 0200z

Welcome to the Pacific seafarer's net | Pacific seafarer's net
0300z - 0500z




2) And, FYI....
The Maritime GMDSS Distress / Calling freqs are:

Voice: 2182khz; 4125khz; 6215khz; 8291khz; 12290khz; 16420khz...

DSC: 2187.5khz; 4207.5khz; 6213khz; 8414.5khz; 12577khz; 16804.5khz

Quote:

Effective 01 August, 2013, the U. S. Coast Guard terminated its radio guard of the international voice distress, safety and calling frequency 2182 kHz and the international digital selective calling (DSC) distress and safety frequency 2187.5 kHz. Additionally, marine information and weather broadcasts transmitted on 2670 kHz will terminate concurrently
.


NBDP (SITOR): 4210khz; 6314khz; 8416.5khz; 12579khz; 16806.5khz; 19680.5khz; 22376khz; 26100.5khz;


Here is the USCG Calling/Distress Freq page...
DSC DISTRESS



Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie

mbianka 11-05-2014 06:03

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
FYI The written transcript for TAL Rebel Heart broadcast is available now here:
Transcript | This American Life

savoir 11-05-2014 06:43

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DumnMad (Post 1538289)
They were in the Pacific! Could have gale from one direction and sizeable seas from another.

That isn't possible in deep water other than for the first hour or so of the gale.

IdoraKeeper 11-05-2014 06:48

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Thank you for posting Rebel Heart. I heard part of the interview but not all. Glad all are safe. I will be interested to see which boat you choose for the next attempt.

Stu Jackson 11-05-2014 06:52

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by savoir (Post 1538489)
That isn't possible in deep water other than for the first hour or so of the gale.

It's not possible except it is? :banghead::banghead::banghead:

WTF does that sentence mean? :rolleyes:

Welcome back Eric, glad all are safe. Good luck to you and yours in the future.

Don't let the idiots get you down, and don't feel you have to justify yourself.

savoir 11-05-2014 06:57

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson (Post 1538499)
It's not possible except it is? :banghead::banghead::banghead:

WTF does that sentence mean? :rolleyes:

Welcome back Eric, glad all are safe. Good luck to you and yours in the future.

Don't let the idiots get you down, and don't feel you have to justify yourself.

It means that in deep water the waves will always follow a strong wind except for a short period after the wind changes direction. Shallow water is different.

MarkJ 11-05-2014 07:04

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ka4wja (Post 1538435)
The Maritime GMDSS Distress / Calling freqs are:

Voice: 2182khz; 4125khz; 6215khz; 8291khz; 12290khz; 16420khz...

DSC: 2187.5khz; 4207.5khz; 6213khz; 8414.5khz; 12577khz; 16804.5khz



John
s/v Annie Laurie

Hi John, :)

I'm not sure its good to reference 2182 at all as it may be put into presets that could be used in a future emergency and consequently NOT be responded to.

For instance in Australia there is automated listening on only the folowinf frequencies.
Quote:

4125 continuous

6215 continuous

8291 continuous

12290 (0730-1930 South Australian time)

You will even note 12290 isnt 24 hours.

DSC
Quote:

DISTRESS AND SAFETY CHANNELS

2187.5 4207.5 6312.0 8414.5 12577.0 16804.5 (kHz)
Why I feel its pretty important to give 2182 the boot is that Australia which has a similar land area to the USA doesnt have too many antennas
https://www.amsa.gov.au/search-and-r...mages/tvnz.jpg
Quote:

All GMDSS HF radio services are now provided by a new AMSA HF DSC network employing transmit and receive sites located at Wiluna and Charleville. These sites have been chosen for their electronically quiet conditions and strategic locations which give good coverage around Australia and well into the Australian SRR.

Note it does NOT cover all our search responsibility area, just "well into" it.

I dont know how many other countries provide a decent service in the Pacific or Asia, but those wanting to follow Rebel Hearts path, and/or use HF, may be better off without giving 2182 a thought...

:)


Mark

Celestialsailor 11-05-2014 08:26

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ (Post 1537995)
I don't know of we are allowed to comment in this thread :rolleyes: but I will and its nothing to do with Eric or his boat, but a general comment about the quote below



I find it's weird that so many people claim the old methods are good... And so good that they dont use, or little use the modern methods.

It just seems crackers to me for anyone venturing out to spend so much time learning the sextant (as Eric did) but no time learning DSC etc.

Or, for example, so into paper charts but they don't have Google Earth images and position in real time on Google Earth cached images, and a variety of ECN options.

That "seamanship" is so important and not running into ships so important but will not buy a modern device like an AIS Transponder.

Sat phone really only for work, and would not have been brought along for weather.

The weirdest thing about this particular sinking is that Eric is quite a young man... Much younger than most of us. But steeped deeply into the old ways.

Forum threads often seem to be biased towards the old technology... The writers who use the new kit just dropping out of a discussion whenever someone says "GPS - nice toy but wait till the satellites fall out of the sky"


Mark

You make a lot of valid points Mark and although I cannot speak for Eric...knowing him from La Paz, I can tell you he is in the same catagory as many of us who want to get out cruising. He, like myself, have humble means. I'm a novice Celestial guy and have a few GPS's like Eric. He nor I depend on Celestial navigation. It is more of an interest of how things were 50 to 250 years ago.
In as far as modern electronics...there is a limit to the amount of money a person is able to spend each year on the boat. I had paper chart for 2013, along with a fixed GPS and a back up hand held. Now tat I am back "shaking the money tree", I have acquired a water maker, more solar wattage,more safety gear and soon a mini, low power PC tablet with Open CPN. I think for people like Rebel Heart and myself, cruising is done on the installment plan.
Keep in mind, none of the modern day electronics would have prevented his boat being broached and the water egress.

minaret 11-05-2014 08:50

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj (Post 1538267)
Being prolific bloggers, we had almost a blow-by-blow account of their passage. Seems like since they were noting when they had sex, they could have also thrown in a couple of words about being knocked down in horrific conditions. The two events were very close to each other in time...

So you are saying astronomical forces can cause failures of a "blue water cruiser" - then they could also cause failure for other not-so-bluewatery? Do you think all catamarans would have been flipped in these conditions? Are you saying that no huntabentalina could have survived the same conditions?

Because this one boat suffered, all others are less?

If you aren't saying this, then many of your (and other's) premises here have been scandalized.

Actually, you have said that if this boat's hull-deck joint failed, then the forces and conditions had to be astronomical. I find that disappointing reasoning of cause/effect from someone with your background. You have never seen a problem with a precious "blue water boat"?

Mark



I don't think you're catching on. Having worked in many a HC/Union, I don't believe you could cause that joint to fail by any method less than dropping it from a crane onto concrete. It would require several very large bolts to break, as well as the failure of the heavy internal laminate. Ingress of water I buy, failed hull/deck on a Hans, not so much. Unless hard stuff was involved, I just don't see it happening. Only way it would be possible is heavy previous damage.

colemj 11-05-2014 09:01

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by minaret (Post 1538565)
I don't think you're catching on. Having worked in many a HC/Union, I don't believe you could cause that joint to fail by any method less than dropping it from a crane onto concrete. It would require several very large bolts to break, as well as the failure of the heavy internal laminate. Ingress of water I buy, failed hull/deck on a Hans, not so much. Unless hard stuff was involved, I just don't see it happening. Only way it would be possible is heavy previous damage.

Yes, I can be slow to catch on. You are saying it didn't happen?

Mark

minaret 11-05-2014 09:17

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj (Post 1538571)
Yes, I can be slow to catch on. You are saying it didn't happen?

Mark



Absolutely not. I'm saying I find it unlikely, barring severe previous damage. I wasn't there, I have no idea what actually happened. Anything is possible. And I certainly wouldn't rule out a factory flaw either, I just find it highly unlikely as well, once again having cut and ground into these boats many times.


Hatch failure, poor companionway seal, etc., yes. Totally plausible. I would even buy structural failure elsewhere due to rotten ply core. Almost anywhere on that boat except the hull/deck, which is about the least likely failure point in that boat IMHO. Pulled chain plate? I'd buy that too.

ka4wja 11-05-2014 09:30

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Mark,
I agree that using 2182 is a poor choice....and I was NOT recommending that, just listing all the freqs....
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ (Post 1538509)
I'm not sure its good to reference 2182 at all as it may be put into presets that could be used in a future emergency and consequently NOT be responded to.

I dont know how many other countries provide a decent service in the Pacific or Asia, but those wanting to follow Rebel Hearts path, and/or use HF, may be better off without giving 2182 a thought...

Perhaps I should've not listed 2182....but figured if I deleted it form the list (as it is not used/recommended by most), someone here would criticize me for not providing the "facts", and "editing" things to make my point...
And here, like in many of my posts, I was just trying to post the facts...


Yes, the USCG was discouraging use of MF (2mhz) for the past 20+ years, and has recently abandoned all their use/monitoring of it (as I noted in red)...
And, I did include the link to the USCG Marine Communications Page, which details all their voice and DSC watchstanding, etc....
DSC DISTRESS


And, if this was a discussion about what "Distress Frequencies to Use", we'd actually NOT be talking about Voice freqs much at all, but we'd be talking about DSC....
As except for the USCG, AMSA, NZ Maritime, and possibly one/two others, there are NO MF/HF Voice radio watchkeeping going on, because it is being done on DSC (VHF-DSC, MF-DSC, and HF-DSC....depending on which nation and what location...)

So, while I understand and agree with your posting....I was accurate in my posting of the "GMDSS freqs"....
And, as I've posted many times, if you don't have MF/HF-DSC, and need to call on SSB Voice, the first choice when out at sea (Sea Area A3) would probably be 8291khz (depending on exactly where you are in relation to the few stations listening, time-of-day, etc.), and then either 12290, or 6215, or 4125....

But, with DSC being an integral part of the GMDSS for the past 20 years (and mandatory required for all SOLAS signatories and all SOLAS vessels for the past 15 years, since Jan 1999)....
And, worldwide with currently 84 operational HF-DSC shore stations monitoring HF-DSC, and approx. 450 operational MF-DSC shore stations monitoring MF-DSC, and over 1000 (??, I lost count after a few hundred) operational VHF-DSC shore stations monitoring VHF-DSC....(info from the GMDSS Master Plan update, July 2013)....
When are "cruisers" going to understand that "SSB Voice" will only do "so much" these days....and "DSC" is an important feature to fully understand and make your equipment decisions accordingly??? (not simply say that they cannot afford the extra $1000, but then have a new iPad sitting next to them???)



So, with that in mind, I'm adding bold type emphasis....
Quote:

Originally Posted by ka4wja (Post 1538435)
The Maritime GMDSS Distress / Calling freqs are:

Voice: 2182khz; 4125khz; 6215khz; 8291khz; 12290khz; 16420khz...

DSC: 2187.5khz; 4207.5khz; 6213khz; 8414.5khz; 12577khz; 16804.5khz

Quote:

Effective 01 August, 2013, the U. S. Coast Guard terminated its radio guard of the international voice distress, safety and calling frequency 2182 kHz and the international digital selective calling (DSC) distress and safety frequency 2187.5 kHz. Additionally, marine information and weather broadcasts transmitted on 2670 kHz will terminate concurrently

NBDP (SITOR): 4210khz; 6314khz; 8416.5khz; 12579khz; 16806.5khz; 19680.5khz; 22376khz; 26100.5khz;


Here is the USCG Calling/Distress Freq page...
DSC DISTRESS (the USCG Communications Page)



Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie

colemj 11-05-2014 09:34

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Previous damage would have had to have been the equivalent of being dropped from a crane onto concrete (your assessment of magnitude). They had that boat many years, and Eric crawled through all of it. I can't imagine him missing previous damage of that magnitude.

Yet, he himself said that dipping the boom in the water caused the hull-deck joint to open up and let in a large amount of water. This isn't conjecture.

Since this is a bluewater boat in what must have been survival conditions, you would expect a huntabentalina or catamaran to be ripped completely in half, no?

Mark

rebel heart 11-05-2014 09:42

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
I haven't read everything in the thread and for my own sanity am skimming over arm chair admiralty. But in regards to distress signals, I used:

- The Pacific Puddle Jump radio net, which we had checked into for I'd say two weeks straight. Maybe not the first few days into the trip, but once we were a few hundred miles off we'd try to hop on once every day. Primary, alternate, secondary alternate.

- 2182khz

- Every HAM (I have no HAM license, but in distress I think it's allowed) channel that I had ever heard traffic on.

- Every HAM/SSB traffic that I had ever jotted down in my radio log book that I heard traffic on. I don't have that log book in front of me, but I'd estimate we're talking two dozen bank+channel combinations.

- DSC / VHF. I really don't see why anyone's talking about this; the nearest vessels were several hundred miles away, if that. No AIS/radar/VHF/visual contacts for a week. We had the squelch zeroed for a week and never even got static. The first static we heard was two minutes before the C130 rolled in.

- Iridium emergency short codes, but none of those worked and replied with the "you cannot dial emergency numbers in your current country" voice responded.

This was all prior to hitting the EPIRB, after the call to the USCG, once I realized the SIM card was bingo.

rebel heart 11-05-2014 09:54

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
And if you want to throw a ******** flag that's your business, but keep in mind the 129th guys saw the water coming in over the starboard quarter bulkhead and helped pump for the days they were onboard.

So maybe we had a natural mountain spring develop there and nice pure crystal water we could have bottled was coming through.

Or maybe a tiny little gnome sat in the overhead, with a very active bladder.

The water came in primarily when we shipped green water, but also just when the rail was in the water. The aft starboard railings took a decent hit; our solar panel on that side went into the drink and some of the rails vanished.

I think I correctly explained in the interview that even with our flooding it really wasn't that bad, the only materially bad aspect was that it got sea water all over the radio and put a ton of moisture into the battery compartment. By the end, we had lost our solar controller, inverter, voltage meter, and lower distribution panel.

If you removed Lyra's medical problems we would have muscled through it.

Honestly for you guys focusing on the boat damage, I have a feeling you really didn't listen to anything I said; I tried to make it pretty clear that ultimately it came down to a sick person onboard who wasn't responding to medical treatment. We were three (plus) weeks out, my best efforts to establish long range communications didn't work, and we were putting nothing but distance between us and the effective range of US (and Latin American) rescue personnel.

SaltyMonkey 11-05-2014 10:06

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
I got it all from the interview, and you made it clear.

And it wasn't JUST a sick person on board. It was your daughter. You both needed to be with her when she was rescued off the ship. Easy decision there.

I enjoyed the interview.

I would recommend everyone read it, and the following stories that followed that portion, which were also special.

MarkJ 11-05-2014 10:10

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor (Post 1538553)
Keep in mind, none of the modern day electronics would have prevented his boat being broached and the water egress.

Yes, I realise that. I was just trying to discuss thematicaly, not specificly to Eric, as in cruising generally, but, yes, using some of his examples. :)

Re: Budget. Yesterday I had to buy a new blob for the boat... It cost 120 Happy Hour beers, half an EPIRB, narly a Samsung Galaxy, close to a small laptop, and a boats worth of life jackets.

The boat always gets more than I do and at times it becomes a tad demoralising.

But it beats the hell out of buying a new lawnmower! :D

ka4wja 11-05-2014 10:10

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Eric,
Thank you for the details!! (it is appreciated!)
I hope you don't mind some comment that others may learn from???

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel heart (Post 1538596)
I haven't read everything in the thread and for my own sanity am skimming over arm chair admiralty. But in regards to distress signals, I used:

- The Pacific Puddle Jump radio net, which we had checked into for I'd say two weeks straight. Maybe not the first few days into the trip, but once we were a few hundred miles off we'd try to hop on once every day. Primary, alternate, secondary alternate.
Not exactly sure what their freqs are, but I assume they're in the 4mhz, and 6mhz, (and possibly the 8mhz) bands, which would only typically have a daytime range of a few hundred miles...
And, I suspect that none of them had their HF radio on (or at least not on those freqs), unless the Net was actually operating....


- 2182khz
NOBODY is listening to this freq....
12290khz (12.290mhz) would have been your best bet, daytime or evening...as this is monitored by USCG in Pt. Reyes,CA and Honolulu!!
Or possibly 8291 at night...


https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=cgcommsCall
This is the USCG Communications Page...


- Every HAM (I have no HAM license, but in distress I think it's allowed) channel that I had ever heard traffic on.
I VERY good idea!!
14.300mhz is the best place to start!!!

- Every HAM/SSB traffic that I had ever jotted down in my radio log book that I heard traffic on. I don't have that log book in front of me, but I'd estimate we're talking two dozen bank+channel combinations.
Unless you had exhausted 14.300mhz....I'd not recommend trying "every other ham traffic net", nor other "SSB traffic nets", as most are SHORT-RANGE "local"/"regional" Nets...and on their freqs, would be unlikely to hear you from more than a few hundred miles away...


- DSC / VHF. I really don't see why anyone's talking about this; the nearest vessels were several hundred miles away, if that. No AIS/radar/VHF/visual contacts for a week. We had the squelch zeroed for a week and never even got static. The first static we heard was two minutes before the C130 rolled in.
Yeah, VHF-DSC might seem like a waste at a time like that...but the fact is that a 25-watt VHF-DSC signal will travel farther than your Voice signal (although not too much father), but certainly will travel farther than a 2-watt AIS signal...

But, here is where HF-DSC comes in!!!
And, we've already covered that!!


- Iridium emergency short codes, but none of those worked and replied with the "you cannot dial emergency numbers in your current country" voice responded.
Lessons learned here for everyone!
THANK YOU!!!


This was all prior to hitting the EPIRB, after the call to the USCG, once I realized the SIM card was bingo.


Sorry....gotta go! (family awaits!)

Fair winds...

John
s/v Annie Laurie

rebel heart 11-05-2014 10:11

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
I tried to abstract out a bit and say "would I do anything differently if it was a passenger or crew member?" I think the only difference is I would have stayed with the boat.

But even at that, with a now-fried EPIRB and the long range comms out, I'm not sure if I would have felt comfortable as a captain putting people's lives in that situation. The only "advantage" would have been monetary in regards to keeping the boat, and that seems like a pretty tiny motivator compared to the risk you'd expose your passengers and crew to.

I've had a lot of time to run through various scenarios; the stuff makes you think.

SaltyMonkey 11-05-2014 10:28

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
yes, well, theres the repair costs too. Is it worth it, and perhaps in a part of the world where it won't be easy and < $$$ to do?

goboatingnow 11-05-2014 11:04

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
I expect all that Erics, says and his recent posts are illuminating. I still don't understand, and like minaret, why a broach cause the hull deck joint to fail. This is a serious serious failure and one that only really happens outside significant previous damage.

Again, no right thinking person, seeks to assign blame here, or engage in the idiocy that goes on here sometimes about questioning the motives of abandoning the boat. You took a decision as Captain and that is to be respected.

Would you care to comment on the mental state of all concerned, was there a will to continue, it would definitely seem from the blogs, that it was tough going for all concerned.?

dave

MarkJ 11-05-2014 11:18

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel heart (Post 1538615)

I've had a lot of time to run through various scenarios; the stuff makes you think.

Of course its natural after the event to second guess all the decisions you made. And its not all that healthy a thing to do. Better just to be comfortable that you made good enough decisions that have been successful.

Its more to us to run through these various scenarios for our own future passage-making. So thats why this thread, and the others closed by the Mods, are important imho, even though some posts are outright critical, and some may appear to be critical of you personally, unintentionally. These are ways we are trying to make our own situations better. So, yes, your situation should make us ALL think.


Also re EPIRBs... I think its ridiculous they have set, sealed, batteries. They should be easily replaceable with normal batteries, either AA size, or rechargeable etc batteries.
As your story points out, after you hit the EPIRB it was 3 days before your electronic position wasn't needed anymore, but an EPIRB only lasts 48 hours.

48 hours is bugger-all in the rescue of a long range cruiser on any of the long passages in a circumnavigation.


So thanks for the better information on the water ingress and the other factors involved. Sorry if it sounds like we are badgering you. But the information that gives inspiration if we are in the same situation is extremely valuable.



Mark
PS Next time buy a Beneteau! :D

Delancey 11-05-2014 11:20

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Hi Eric,

Glad you have all made it back safely. My condolences about the loss of your home.

I don't want to distract from all the fun dissecting or second guessing your decisions, but I am more than a little curious to know how you have enjoyed your fifteen minutes so far?

I have dealt with/encountered some celebrity-types professionally and I will always remember a comment a friend made once when he said "I've never met anyone famous who didn't want to be"

It strikes me that the same cannot be said for infamy, and I am curious to know your thoughts about your experience dealing with the media.

I believe it's always better to regret the things you have done than the things you didn't do. Do you have any regrets about things you did or didn't do?

We all know how to best prepare ourselves with guns and anchors, any thought son how to survive a media storm?

Cheers!

goat 11-05-2014 11:21

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Could SV Rebel Heart have continued on and made it to her destination? Maybe, maybe not. But we do know that Charlotte is enjoying Mother's day with her children. Losing a boat is a bad thing. Things could have turned out a lot worse.
Could Eric have sailed her solo the rest of the way? Maybe, maybe not. Father's day is coming up.

goat

goboatingnow 11-05-2014 11:31

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Also re EPIRBs... I think its ridiculous they have set, sealed, batteries. They should be easily replaceable with normal batteries, either AA size, or rechargeable etc batteries.
As your story points out, after you hit the EPIRB it was 3 days before your electronic position wasn't needed anymore, but an EPIRB only lasts 48 hours.

48 hours is bugger-all in the rescue of a long range cruiser on any of the passages in a circumnavigation.
EPIRBS are designed to sit in remote locations , like outside high up, on a ship for many years and then work unattended. This does not suit rechargeable systems.

Equally there is really no need to transit for the total duration of the rescue. in RH cases they were located by the aircraft, later then day and the ship had little trouble finding them.

Dave

captain58sailin 11-05-2014 11:47

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Hi Eric, read the transcript, couldn't listen to the broadcast. Good interview. Glad you and the family made it back safe. Wish you well on your next endeavor. Looking forward to your posts in CF again. All the best.

onestepcsy37 11-05-2014 11:56

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
in all the turmoil i almost forgot -



happy mothers day,

Charlotte!

Prairie Chicken 11-05-2014 12:09

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Thanks to Rebel Heart for answering some of the burning questions. I look forward to listening to the interview tomorrow.

For everyone's info, Canadian Coast Guard are still monitoring VHF Chan 16 & MF 2182 kHz "for the foreseeable future"--but I doubt that would have done Rebel Heart any good.

rebel heart 11-05-2014 12:10

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Delancey (Post 1538656)
Hi Eric,

Glad you have all made it back safely. My condolences about the loss of your home.

I don't want to distract from all the fun dissecting or second guessing your decisions, but I am more than a little curious to know how you have enjoyed your fifteen minutes so far?

I have dealt with/encountered some celebrity-types professionally and I will always remember a comment a friend made once when he said "I've never met anyone famous who didn't want to be"

It strikes me that the same cannot be said for infamy, and I am curious to know your thoughts about your experience dealing with the media.

I believe it's always better to regret the things you have done than the things you didn't do. Do you have any regrets about things you did or didn't do?

We all know how to best prepare ourselves with guns and anchors, any thought son how to survive a media storm?

Cheers!

The media has been a whole crazy bag all in of itself. In general you feel a bit like a ragdoll: you wake up and can pull up Google News and see what new bs has been generated by whomever. You watch the loser of the family on his porch steps, who managed to put the bong down long enough to run his mouth on a camera.

The media response itself was incredibly telling. I was getting texts from cute 25 year old producers who wanted to take me "no strings attached" for drinks, fly us to NYC, put us back on the air for our (non existent) book deal, etc.

I gave the wheel to the 129th as a momento, and someone in some newspaper laid into me for wasting Navy time with me taking it as a souvenir for my own.

Eventually you just start laughing at it, curiously wondering where it all will go. It's like watching a drunk stagger down a street. Will he go left, right, stop for a bit? Puke? Turn around and punch you?

If I had to do it all over again I obviously wouldn't leave the dock, but there's not a whole hell of a lot I think in hindsight I could have reasonably done or any glaring oversights I made.

When we decided to scuttle the boat I told my wife that for the ~$100k that we'd spent on the boat, we had a home for 8 years, had amazing adventures, and experienced life more than most do in a lifetime. So for the money, we got plenty out of it.

I told my wife we could buy another boat, I can't buy another family. Boats are just money.

rebel heart 11-05-2014 12:13

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goat (Post 1538658)
Could SV Rebel Heart have continued on and made it to her destination? Maybe, maybe not. But we do know that Charlotte is enjoying Mother's day with her children. Losing a boat is a bad thing. Things could have turned out a lot worse.
Could Eric have sailed her solo the rest of the way? Maybe, maybe not. Father's day is coming up.

goat

I'm pretty positive the boat itself could have made it, although the water was exceeding the electronic bilge pump's capacity so it would have needed manual pumping at least once (and more like three times) a day.

mrm 11-05-2014 12:15

re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel heart (Post 1538603)
The water came in primarily when we shipped green water, but also just when the rail was in the water. The aft starboard railings took a decent hit; our solar panel on that side went into the drink and some of the rails vanished.

So, to rephrase it, some of the rails were ripped out from deck when solar panel submerged. IMHO this explains the forces acting on/near the hull-deck joint nicely. From engineering pov this leads to questions, how strong (and where) should solar panels attachments be? What should fail first? Certainly, a food for thought. Thank you, Eric, and it is good to see you all safe and be able to tell the story.


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