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SV THIRD DAY 21-05-2014 17:51

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers (Post 1546715)
This thread about the RH interview hasn't actually contained anything about the RH interview for many many pages now. I guess it has run its course and has now become a pseudo Facebook status update thread.

....and you are suggeting that even early on in this thread it was really about RH anyway? na....not really.....

oldragbaggers 21-05-2014 17:56

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
You're probably right Third Day. But doesn't that always seem to be the case, no matter what the original topic??

goboatingnow 21-05-2014 18:42

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Well, I see at least they rescued the champagne from the bilge

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Oronoco 22-05-2014 10:26

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
I read in Charlotte's blog that they joined DAN prior to their voyage in case they needed an evacuation. I guess an evacuation is on everybody's mind at some point.

Bella Star 22-05-2014 13:46

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY (Post 1545910)
That's it....someone has to say it.

You guys are smoking Crack if you think a Cruising Boat wants to surf down waves...ha ha ha HELLO....McFly Anyone Home? Sheesh what next...how to fly a spinny in 40kts of wind on passage with the wife and kids?

It's like the BS about dragging your dirty clothes or dishes behind the boat to clean them.....it's Chat room BS....there.....it's been said....:popcorn:

I was curious how our heavy HC33 would handle "surfing" conditions with our super wide keel. She just picked up and tracked right down. Doing about 13 knots over ground in this picture in 12 feet of water, and also a view from the cockpit. Pretty scary the first time. Months later we did it all day long on a day with ideal conditions on our passage to the Galapagos for a 171 mile noon 2 noon.

I'm hoping the RH story doesn't give the Hans Christian line a bad rap, they built incredible boats. I know several other HC owners and none of us had ever heard of an HC being built with all wood decks... but the 36 does have something of a sordid history and RH was a very early boat. Ours has solid fiberglass decks and I'm happy to report that's it's only teaky, and not leaky.

smackdaddy 22-05-2014 14:15

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oronoco (Post 1547236)
I read in Charlotte's blog that they joined DAN prior to their voyage in case they needed an evacuation. I guess an evacuation is on everybody's mind at some point.

Interesting. Do you have a link to that post Oron?

colemj 22-05-2014 14:46

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
A 170nm day is hull speed for your boat - a very good and enviable run for sure, but I don't think it can be considered surfing. The nice thing about the newer 10-20hz GPS units is they sure do register some high instantaneous top speeds! Our older 0.5hz one made us go lots slower...

I don't think Rich meant to say that cruising boats can't surf - just that anything more than instantaneous acceleration on a wave face as it passed over you is not realistic for most cruising boats. Your picture shows your ride about to end - how long was the beginning of it, and what speeds were you registering on the backside? It is only surfing if your average speed is higher overall - not if you go 12kts for 10secs, then 2kts for 30secs, etc.

Not sure the DAN thing is meaningful here. They do not have the facilities to reach out 900nm without involving the services of SAR, navy and commercial shipping - which are free anyway and don't require insurance. DAN is a very good thing for cruising, but not for the way offshore part of it. Evacuation is always on our mind - bitten by a poisonous snake, heart attack, fast and serious infection, etc. Anchored just 20nm from a mainland, or on a mainland not serviced by highways, and rapid access to medical care is impossible without an air evacuation. Particularly if the person who needs care is the only person who can fully operate the boat.

Mark

mbianka 30-05-2014 08:28

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
A new article written by Charlotte has been published:
https://www.sandiegomagazine.com/San-...Family-Speaks/

deckofficer 01-06-2014 14:53

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Since Eric said he would answer direct questions here from another thread, here is my only question. Did the HF SSB radio work to your satisfaction prior to the passage? What do you think happened to it?

rebel heart 01-06-2014 15:36

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deckofficer (Post 1554404)
Since Eric said he would answer direct questions here from another thread, here is my only question. Did the HF SSB radio work to your satisfaction prior to the passage? What do you think happened to it?

We checked into the Pacific Puddle Jump radio net several times, pretty much every day. Once we started hitting a lot of squalls I think we stopped; if someone really wants to dig they can find out the last time we checked in by contacting the guys and gals that run that net.

But that was at least several hundred miles of range when it was working well.

I saw a lot of seawater all over it (it was up against the starboard bulkhead), and wasn't able to raise anyone or hear any intelligible traffic on the channels I checked out on the morning we hit our EPIRB.

Whether that's due to something faulty in the installation, sea water damage, or just bad luck, I really don't know. I cleaned all the contact points before we left so I don't think there was anything systemically wrong, and we used it for a good year successfully in Mexico.

model 10 01-06-2014 17:27

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Was single handing to Hawaii an option?

deckofficer 01-06-2014 17:41

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Thanks for the reply Eric. Too bad it quit when it did. I was a radio junkie on my boat, talking every morning and a lot of evenings. I was solo, so my way of socializing when nothing was happening in the anchorage. This was before wi-fi, and sat phones.

Sailor g 01-06-2014 18:29

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oronoco (Post 1547236)
I read in Charlotte's blog that they joined DAN prior to their voyage in case they needed an evacuation. I guess an evacuation is on everybody's mind at some point.


We also joined DAN (again after years of having it as divers) for the "unknown reasons" you might need it. It is for the same reason people get boat insurance-for the 'just in case'.

SVNeko 01-06-2014 19:16

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Better read up on DAN. They recently made clear that they are not in the business of flying cruisers with illnesses back to the USA.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

chris5977 01-06-2014 20:02

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
What is DAN? I tried googling it but could not figure it out.

downunder 01-06-2014 20:21

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chris5977 (Post 1554602)
What is DAN? I tried googling it but could not figure it out.

DIVERS ALERT NETWORK.

OutOfControl 01-06-2014 20:22

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chris5977 (Post 1554602)
What is DAN? I tried googling it but could not figure it out.

Divers Alert Network

rebel heart 01-06-2014 20:42

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy (Post 1554514)
Was single handing to Hawaii an option?

It was, but the distance there wouldn't have been that much different than continuing on to the Marquesas. Maybe shaved a couple of days, but we also would have been close reaching through the easterly trades in a fairly strong section of them.

Scottuk 01-06-2014 23:20

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Did you actively sail towards the rescue boat after picking up the 4 guys? Did they bring anything for communication?
If you didn't sail then why?

who_cares 02-06-2014 04:58

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel heart (Post 1554616)
Maybe shaved a couple of days, but we also would have been close reaching through the easterly trades in a fairly strong section of them.

And what's wrong with that? Sounds fast and fun, easy singlehanding conditions as long as the boat could handle it.

colemj 02-06-2014 05:02

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SVNeko (Post 1554574)
Better read up on DAN. They recently made clear that they are not in the business of flying cruisers with illnesses back to the USA.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

DAN has never had a policy of flying anyone to the USA or their home country. Their policy is to evacuate one to the nearest medical facility capable of handling the medical problem. They have also clarified their policy stance regarding cruisers and they still cover that.

And again, DAN does not have the reach to get someone mid-ocean. That will always fall to the normal SAR means.

Mark

TeddyDiver 02-06-2014 05:35

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Note that there's DAN America, DAN Europe and maybe more. Everyone totally separate and independent from each other and having their own insurance policies..

rebel heart 02-06-2014 07:23

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottuk (Post 1554653)
Did you actively sail towards the rescue boat after picking up the 4 guys? Did they bring anything for communication?
If you didn't sail then why?

We stayed hove-to as much as possible, but primarily at that point were avoiding squalls.

Sailing towards them would have been being on a beat. The difference in distance might have been 100 or 200 nautical miles depending on your math, but considering that the Vandegrift was making 30 knots towards us we (myself, the PJ's, and the Vandegrift) decided to focus on staying put and avoiding storms.

The Vandegrift was going to be on station by nightfall anyway and we'd be doing the offloading in morning, so ultimately it didn't change schedules at all and made it easier for the Vandegrift to find us.

The PJ airbone rescuemen brought two satellite phones and a military radio, the latter of which seemed to work within a couple of hundred miles.

Scottuk 02-06-2014 07:29

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Cheers for the response.

IdoraKeeper 02-06-2014 07:31

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Greetings RH. Spotted a boat yet? I hope everyone is well and things are out of disaster mode.:viking:

who_cares 02-06-2014 07:44

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper (Post 1554863)
Greetings RH. Spotted a boat yet? I hope everyone is well and things are out of disaster mode.:viking:

They're looking for a spaceship now ;).

RH, do you have any regrets about the trip? Preparations, time of departure, boat, anything you would've done differently?

Scottuk 02-06-2014 07:44

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
I think your response also better contextualises the photograph included in the SD mag.

savoir 02-06-2014 07:50

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by who_cares (Post 1554776)
And what's wrong with that? Sounds fast and fun, easy singlehanding conditions as long as the boat could handle it.

The voyage to Hawaii is likely to have been quite enjoyable.

Shorten sail a little more than necessary to stabilize the boat and off you go. It seems like the starting point was around 15N meaning the likely course would be roughly 280. Hawaii is at 19N. By April the trades are remarkably stable giving you 15 - 20 all day every day.

Nice.

who_cares 02-06-2014 08:15

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by savoir (Post 1554882)
The voyage to Hawaii is likely to have been quite enjoyable.

Shorten sail a little more than necessary to stabilize the boat and off you go. It seems like the starting point was around 15N meaning the likely course would be roughly 280. Hawaii is at 19N. By April the trades are remarkably stable giving you 15 - 20 all day every day.

Nice.

Yup, that would've been awesome. And honestly sailing the boat by himself wouldn't have been any more difficult than sailing it with a wife who always stayed below and sick kids, in fact I'd call that a vacation!

rebel heart 02-06-2014 08:35

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by who_cares (Post 1554776)
And what's wrong with that? Sounds fast and fun, easy singlehanding conditions as long as the boat could handle it.

I'm not sure if you've ever been in the eastern trades, specifically around >120 degrees longitude, but if you would consider close reaching in that environment to be "fast, fun, and easy" then you are a much better sailor than myself and hats off you to.

rebel heart 02-06-2014 08:37

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper (Post 1554863)
Greetings RH. Spotted a boat yet? I hope everyone is well and things are out of disaster mode.:viking:

There are some possibilities, but really most of our world right now has been focusing on the basics. Bills, health, and just catching our breath a little bit. Reconnecting with friends and family.

rebel heart 02-06-2014 08:44

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by who_cares (Post 1554873)
They're looking for a spaceship now ;).

RH, do you have any regrets about the trip? Preparations, time of departure, boat, anything you would've done differently?

It's really hard to answer that. One of the logical fallacies is a "Historian's fallacy", in that:

Quote:

when one assumes that decision makers of the past viewed events from the same perspective and having the same information as those subsequently analyzing the decision.
There were boats with kids living from the same port as us headed to the same destination. Some of those crews had more sea time, some had less. Some had younger kids, some had older. Some boats were faster and some were slower.

If I had hindsight I'd obviously go back and chain the boat to the dock so we couldn't leave at all.

But if you're asking for some general rule, piece of equipment, or standard that I think every boat leaving across an ocean must have that we didn't have, I really can't come up with that one.

To some I think that might reek of arrogance or pig-headedness, but that's as best as I can answer the question.

who_cares 02-06-2014 08:48

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel heart (Post 1554921)
It's really hard to answer that. One of the logical fallacies is a "Historian's fallacy", in that:



There were boats with kids living from the same port as us headed to the same destination. Some of those crews had more sea time, some had less. Some had younger kids, some had older. Some boats were faster and some were slower.

If I had hindsight I'd obviously go back and chain the boat to the dock so we couldn't leave at all.

But if you're asking for some general rule, piece of equipment, or standard that I think every boat leaving across an ocean must have that we didn't have, I really can't come up with that one.

To some I think that might reek of arrogance or pig-headedness, but that's as best as I can answer the question.

Nope, not asking for a general rule, piece of equipment, or standard or anything like that. Just wondering if you thought to yourself at any point "darn i wish I had checked THIS before we left", or "darn, that would've been handy to have", or "gee, I wish I had done this a few times before we left".

I do that just about every time we come back to the dock. Just a general debrief to see if we had done something better. When we were in the middle of an offshore race and had to peel from the 1 to a 3 I sure wished we had practiced that before we left the dock.

downunder 02-06-2014 14:24

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote from someone who has travelled extensively with babies on a cat. :thumb:

Default Re: Building Maverick 440,
Fantastic - congrats are due. We also purchased (from another manufacturer, though) our cat a number of years ago in Cape Town; our twins were born whilst in the Indian Ocean and two more followed later in other parts of the world. Are you going to share your plans for the next year or so?

rebel heart 03-06-2014 18:35

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Eric mentioned that the boom went over in a broach. Were preventers rigged, and if so, were they rigged forward? Or did they fail or otherwise give way?

I had preventers rigged, from the end of the 19' boom through a pad-eye on the deck about even with the mast, that came back and attached to a cleat at the starboard quarter. I have a hard time believing that enough load was transmitted through that to cause the leaking that we had, but I really don't have any data either way.

I had ocassionaly also rigged a preventer all the way forward to the sampson posts which actually worked fine in more gentle weather, but when things got gross it just wasn't manageable. I'm not sure if we ever did that on the Pacific crossing.

I would and did have the staysail prevented out to the sampson posts, running through a freeport on the gunwale.

How did the boom damage the hull/deck joint (that was the impression I got, but it seemed a touch unlikely)?

I really don't know, and possibly it didn't. I know we broached pretty violently, I know we started to have leaking at the joint after that, and I know it got worse as time kept ticking. Especially when shipping green water.

Was Eric hand-steering when the broach happened, or was an AP or windvane in use?

Windvane. I was in the companionway I believe.

Did you havestern drogues/para off the bow of any sort, and were they used to slow or otherwise help to keep the boat in a "broach minimizing" direction?


No. We went through a few different mindsets:
1) Try to keep the speed up so we can get through the area and make time. We had reduced canvas but in general the ITCZ strategy is to try to cut through it as quick as possible, or certainly not linger.

2) Stay hove-to to get some rest, cook dinner, do things that it helps to not have the boat banging around (showering, etc).

3) Actively steer when the wind/waves changed direction and strength when squalls came through.

4) Try to actively steer around the squalls to make your life much easier.

Could RH have heaved to effectively and was that considered or attempted?. From what I could see from the lines, it looked pretty heave-to friendly.

Yeah we did and it was fine, except when we got into mixed swells. The prevailing wind would have us hove-to, but there was another swell that would break that would catch us beam-on. I'm pretty sure that's actually what broached us.

Were the batteries and SSB in an unusual position? You mentioned water ingress damaging both, and I wonder if positioning came into this? Was your SSB antenna the backstay or an antenna carried aloft on a halyard? The SIM card fiasco just out and out sucks...

Backstay antenna, nothing special, insulators installed maybe three years previous. The batteries were in the standard under-the-quarter berth location and the SSB was mounted with the back of it hitting the bulkhead.

To give you an idea of the amount of water that entered the boat on that big broach, an auto-inflating life jacket inflated in the cabin. It was just pure green water, and that hit the radio as well (I can't imagine it not). To imagine the location of the radio, if you were to walk down the companionway facing forward and stick your arm out to starboard, it was right about there along the bulkhead aiming amidships (towards the port bulkhead).

I gather you had both manual and electric bilge pumps. Would you consider that a PTO on the diesel to run a engine-powered pump would have been a decent option, or just a further complication?

I think it would have complicated it further. The manual we had was something I bought because I read about it in a book and the author said it was the only pump he could really rely on. In truth, it actually cleared a decent sized toy one of my kids managed to jam in there without us noticing probably months before.

The integrated systems, even just needing electrical power or the engine, were definitely the most vulnerable. When the electronics started to fail it was circuit by circuit it seemed, and somethings would come back online and then fail twelve hours later.

We were a pretty "old school" boat in our equipment choices, with a lot of manual or otherwise simple electronics. Even at that, losing even just a couple of pieces of critical gear causes a lot of problems.

S/V Alchemy 03-06-2014 18:59

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel heart (Post 1556190)
Eric mentioned that the boom went over in a broach. Were preventers rigged, and if so, were they rigged forward? Or did they fail or otherwise give way?

I had preventers rigged, from the end of the 19' boom through a pad-eye on the deck about even with the mast, that came back and attached to a cleat at the starboard quarter. I have a hard time believing that enough load was transmitted through that to cause the leaking that we had, but I really don't have any data either way.

I had ocassionaly also rigged a preventer all the way forward to the sampson posts which actually worked fine in more gentle weather, but when things got gross it just wasn't manageable. I'm not sure if we ever did that on the Pacific crossing.

I would and did have the staysail prevented out to the sampson posts, running through a freeport on the gunwale.

How did the boom damage the hull/deck joint (that was the impression I got, but it seemed a touch unlikely)?

I really don't know, and possibly it didn't. I know we broached pretty violently, I know we started to have leaking at the joint after that, and I know it got worse as time kept ticking. Especially when shipping green water.

Was Eric hand-steering when the broach happened, or was an AP or windvane in use?

Windvane. I was in the companionway I believe.

Did you havestern drogues/para off the bow of any sort, and were they used to slow or otherwise help to keep the boat in a "broach minimizing" direction?


No. We went through a few different mindsets:
1) Try to keep the speed up so we can get through the area and make time. We had reduced canvas but in general the ITCZ strategy is to try to cut through it as quick as possible, or certainly not linger.

2) Stay hove-to to get some rest, cook dinner, do things that it helps to not have the boat banging around (showering, etc).

3) Actively steer when the wind/waves changed direction and strength when squalls came through.

4) Try to actively steer around the squalls to make your life much easier.

Could RH have heaved to effectively and was that considered or attempted?. From what I could see from the lines, it looked pretty heave-to friendly.

Yeah we did and it was fine, except when we got into mixed swells. The prevailing wind would have us hove-to, but there was another swell that would break that would catch us beam-on. I'm pretty sure that's actually what broached us.

Were the batteries and SSB in an unusual position? You mentioned water ingress damaging both, and I wonder if positioning came into this? Was your SSB antenna the backstay or an antenna carried aloft on a halyard? The SIM card fiasco just out and out sucks...

Backstay antenna, nothing special, insulators installed maybe three years previous. The batteries were in the standard under-the-quarter berth location and the SSB was mounted with the back of it hitting the bulkhead.

To give you an idea of the amount of water that entered the boat on that big broach, an auto-inflating life jacket inflated in the cabin. It was just pure green water, and that hit the radio as well (I can't imagine it not). To imagine the location of the radio, if you were to walk down the companionway facing forward and stick your arm out to starboard, it was right about there along the bulkhead aiming amidships (towards the port bulkhead).

I gather you had both manual and electric bilge pumps. Would you consider that a PTO on the diesel to run a engine-powered pump would have been a decent option, or just a further complication?

I think it would have complicated it further. The manual we had was something I bought because I read about it in a book and the author said it was the only pump he could really rely on. In truth, it actually cleared a decent sized toy one of my kids managed to jam in there without us noticing probably months before.

The integrated systems, even just needing electrical power or the engine, were definitely the most vulnerable. When the electronics started to fail it was circuit by circuit it seemed, and somethings would come back online and then fail twelve hours later.

We were a pretty "old school" boat in our equipment choices, with a lot of manual or otherwise simple electronics. Even at that, losing even just a couple of pieces of critical gear causes a lot of problems.

Thanks for these answers, Eric. While I rig preventers to the rail forward to roughly the mast and then back to the cockpit on Lake Ontario, the customary way is to take them forward to blocks at the bow and would be my habit at sea, given the lurching. You mentioned this as being not manageable. May I ask why?

Were your batteries in a lidded box with opening for the cables or just strapped in?

I wouldn't mind knowing the brand of the manual pump that could suck a plushie out of the bilge. Was it perhaps a Patay diaphragm pump?

Do you have any thoughts (location, better waterproofing, fusing or subpanels) on how you might have made your electrical system more robust?

Did you have dropboards in the companionway or doors, and for either did you have a way to keep them in places (barrel locks, lanyards, what have you)? I gather when you took water into the interior you had the companionway open.

Did you use the SSB for wxfax, or did you have any kind of offshore forecasting?

I don't know if you had dorades, but in the broach, were they sealed and did the seals hold?

Thanks for your answers in advance. This is most enlightening, and if you need to take comfort, replying to queries on "what worked and what didn't" is very helpful to people planning similar adventures.

rebel heart 03-06-2014 22:47

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Thanks for these answers, Eric. While I rig preventers to the rail forward to roughly the mast and then back to the cockpit on Lake Ontario, the customary way is to take them forward to blocks at the bow and would be my habit at sea, given the lurching. You mentioned this as being not manageable. May I ask why?


It takes a bit of time to undo that setup, on our boat, and it required us to go up to the bow which got dicey in trashed weather. For squall management we would gybe a lot, and that was maybe a dozen times a day so needing to head up to the bow with green water was a little too thick for me.

Were your batteries in a lidded box with opening for the cables or just strapped in?

Just strapped in. They sat in boxes that were bolted down, and there were pad eyes with straps holding them down into the boxes. There was never enough room between the tops of the batteries and the quarterberth beams (sitting under the boards which made up the bed) for lids.

I wouldn't mind knowing the brand of the manual pump that could suck a plushie out of the bilge. Was it perhaps a Patay diaphragm pump?

We had the Edson 30 ( Rebel Heart - Eric's Blog - the manual bilgeĀ*pump ). It was amazing and if I'm ever crossing an ocean again I want another one.

Do you have any thoughts (location, better waterproofing, fusing or subpanels) on how you might have made your electrical system more robust?


That's tough because I think to some extent if you just toss a bucket of seawater at the distribution panel it's going to fry things out eventually; electronics just don't do good with water.

Some critical systems that do not at all need ship's power would be more the way I'd approach it. A handheld GPS with a big stock of batteries hanging out. A handheld VHF with portable batteries. Portable sidelights and stern light, stuff like that.

Did you have dropboards in the companionway or doors, and for either did you have a way to keep them in places (barrel locks, lanyards, what have you)? I gather when you took water into the interior you had the companionway open.

We had the big plexiglass in, but I opened the sliding top door because I was getting ready to exit and go into the cockpit. Just bad luck on my part there.

Did you use the SSB for wxfax, or did you have any kind of offshore forecasting?

No offshore forecasting, but I did use uuplus.net for email and gribs via my Iridium satellite service. I really liked uuplus.net; they're a great service provider. Like many I found that weather is pretty much all you're concerned with offshore and although you get a general idea of what's going on with gribs and the such, there just isn't anyway to accurately predict offshore weather to the detail that many would like.

Our SSB was used only for voice.

I don't know if you had dorades, but in the broach, were they sealed and did the seals hold?

We had one dorade, on the port side, and a ton of water went into it. It was tough because the interior was getting swamp like with the rain and heat so we wanted to keep as much open as we could, but you'd pay the price for it when green water showed up.

We had some of the "aironly" vents as well, but those let water in too. If someone knows of a way to keep a green-water-shipping-boat ventilated well without letting waves of water into the cabin, I would be all ears.

JPA Cate 04-06-2014 01:10

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Eric, I know this is addressing an issue after the fact, so possibly not helpful, but back in the 90's, I saw people protecting their radio installations with clear PVC curtains. If necessary, this could have been run under the deck, over the SSB, and down as far as you like. Stuff like that makes the boat appear less "homey", but can be helpful.

All the best, and glad to see you back here.

Ann

S/V Alchemy 04-06-2014 08:39

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
It takes a bit of time to undo that setup, on our boat, and it required us to go up to the bow which got dicey in trashed weather. For squall management we would gybe a lot, and that was maybe a dozen times a day so needing to head up to the bow with green water was a little too thick for me.

That's a lot of heavy weather. I don't blame you. I thought the idea of preventers to the bow was, however, so you could control the boom movement from the cockpit, i.e. using blocks and cam cleats, plus horn cleats to secure that.


Just strapped in. They sat in boxes that were bolted down, and there were pad eyes with straps holding them down into the boxes. There was never enough room between the tops of the batteries and the quarterberth beams (sitting under the boards which made up the bed) for lids.

Aside from the obvious advice to "raise the quarterberth", you might be a candidate for AGM house banks that can go places flooded batts can't.


We had the Edson 30 ( Rebel Heart - Eric's Blog - the manual bilgeĀ*pump ). It was amazing and if I'm ever crossing an ocean again I want another one.

OK, so noted, and clearly a real-world endorsement.


Subpanel/electronics: That's tough because I think to some extent if you just toss a bucket of seawater at the distribution panel it's going to fry things out eventually; electronics just don't do good with water.

Some critical systems that do not at all need ship's power would be more the way I'd approach it. A handheld GPS with a big stock of batteries hanging out. A handheld VHF with portable batteries. Portable sidelights and stern light, stuff like that.

OK, this is interesting. I carry a Walker log, sextants, hand bearing compasses, even a freakin' lead line, so naturally I also carry a Garmin 72H (basic but quick-acquiring handheld GPS) and three SH handhelds, two with MMSI #s input. And this is on Lake Ontario...Same with portable lights, solar whatnots, etc. I just assume that it's possible to have an electrically dead boat and I'd better have a Plan B that doesn't involve flares or waving an inverted ensign. So I fully subscribe to that insight. I sometimes say "your start point is not that you should think that the sea is actively trying to kill you, but rather that it is completely indifferent to your survival...and work forward from there". This has yet to lead me wrong.


We had the big plexiglass in, but I opened the sliding top door because I was getting ready to exit and go into the cockpit. Just bad luck on my part there.

Yes, that's always a factor.


No offshore forecasting, but I did use uuplus.net for email and gribs via my Iridium satellite service. I really liked uuplus.net; they're a great service provider. Like many I found that weather is pretty much all you're concerned with offshore and although you get a general idea of what's going on with gribs and the such, there just isn't anyway to accurately predict offshore weather to the detail that many would like.

Our SSB was used only for voice.

OK, thanks. I'm installing an ICOM M-802 because my kid will be doing high school offshore (my wife's got a teaching degree) and therefore I need basic email offshore to collect and reply to class assignments and so on. So SSB will get a workout on our boat.

We had one dorade, on the port side, and a ton of water went into it. It was tough because the interior was getting swamp like with the rain and heat so we wanted to keep as much open as we could, but you'd pay the price for it when green water showed up.

We had some of the "aironly" vents as well, but those let water in too. If someone knows of a way to keep a green-water-shipping-boat ventilated well without letting waves of water into the cabin, I would be all ears.

It depends, as far as I know, on the design of the dorade box itself and the height of the internal baffle and the ability of the box to drain quickly. I assume by "air only", you mean vents like the low-profile "mushroom" style by Lewmar and Nicrovent...those don't seem to work directly on deck if there's more than an inch of water sluicing over. A method I would consider is what I will have for my engine room: positive powered ventilation to blow heat out via grab bars (think: vertical brass "stripper poles") from the engine room to gooseneck ventpipes (able to be shut off, of course) on the pilothouse (in my case) or the coachhouse (in yours) top. Just cycling engine room air will tend to draw moisture out of the boat, as will the somewhat counterintuitive running of a diesel (NOT propane) bulkhead heater: diesel is a "dry" fuel and will suck the damp air out the chimney. And even in the tropics, slightly too warm, but dry, is preferable to warm and wet, or so I feel.

Thanks for the replies, Eric. Hope this exchange is proving to be of some use.

who_cares 04-06-2014 10:07

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy (Post 1556711)
Subpanel/electronics: That's tough because I think to some extent if you just toss a bucket of seawater at the distribution panel it's going to fry things out eventually; electronics just don't do good with water.

Some critical systems that do not at all need ship's power would be more the way I'd approach it. A handheld GPS with a big stock of batteries hanging out. A handheld VHF with portable batteries. Portable sidelights and stern light, stuff like that.

OK, this is interesting. I carry a Walker log, sextants, hand bearing compasses, even a freakin' lead line, so naturally I also carry a Garmin 72H (basic but quick-acquiring handheld GPS) and three SH handhelds, two with MMSI #s input. And this is on Lake Ontario...Same with portable lights, solar whatnots, etc. I just assume that it's possible to have an electrically dead boat and I'd better have a Plan B that doesn't involve flares or waving an inverted ensign. So I fully subscribe to that insight. I sometimes say "your start point is not that you should think that the sea is actively trying to kill you, but rather that it is completely indifferent to your survival...and work forward from there". This has yet to lead me wrong.

I couldn't imagine going offshore without a battery operated GPS and VHF... electronics are probably the most delicate part of any boat and in my mind that's one of the weakest links, so having some kind of a backup is a safety requirement...

How bad was the broach? Were you all the way over on your side?

On a side note, can you even use a sextant in the Great lakes? In the USCG Cel nav isn't required for the Lakes because it's too hard to get a good horizon... I never tried, but I imagine as long as you're offshore far enough you can use them?


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