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weavis 16-05-2014 15:21

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey (Post 1542769)
Meet me at Mullion Cove near The Lizard. Bring Atoll, a lobster, and the biscuits. There is a smugglers cave in the back. A map is in the cave. It explains the nature of existence and was co-written by Samuel Pepys and Plato.

this is a wondrous thing. :thumb: :D :devil:

a Lobster?

LOL..... gas is $8+ a gallon and you really DONT want to know what a Lobster costs........:whistling:

Paul L 16-05-2014 15:32

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
So now the Satphone company denies cutting off the SIM card:
Quote:

We contacted the company's manager, Phil Sexton, for a comment on the SIM card controversy. He was adamant that his staff would never discontinue service without first getting voice or email confirmation from a customer that they had received a new SIM card to use. "We would never do that," he says. "These phones are used for emergency purposes by 80% of our customers. Legally, I could not do that" — even if the account were in arrears.
From Latitude38 Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude

JPA Cate 16-05-2014 15:45

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 1542803)
So now the Satphone company denies cutting off the SIM card:
From Latitude38 Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude

It wouldn't be the first time the manager of a company was unaware of what a *lowly* clerk was doing. Given that the Kaufman's phone was not the only one affected, I suspect that Eric's totally right on about his phone.

Always two sides to a story of course, but so many resort to lying when at least for me, the road to respect is to confess the wrong, and move on. Denied wrongdoing stays around as issues for a long time.

On edit: makes one wonder about all "reliable informants," doesn't it?

Ann

SaltyMonkey 16-05-2014 15:50

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1542799)
a Lobster?

LOL..... gas is $8+ a gallon and you really DONT want to know what a Lobster costs........:whistling:

Subliminal reference to a quote by Pepys:

"Gadzooks, where be my lobsters?!"

he left them in his carriage.

:D :D :devil:

SaltyMonkey 16-05-2014 15:51

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 1542803)
So now the Satphone company denies cutting off the SIM card:
From Latitude38 Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude

Damage control

tomfl 16-05-2014 16:03

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey (Post 1542810)
Damage control

At least someone is trying to control the damage.:popcorn:

SaltyMonkey 16-05-2014 16:07

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomfl (Post 1542812)
At least someone is trying to control the damage.:popcorn:

hoboy…here we go :D :whistling:

Spleen 16-05-2014 16:09

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 1542803)
So now the Satphone company denies cutting off the SIM card:
From Latitude38 Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude

Would be interesting if they could prove it...

tomfl 16-05-2014 16:16

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 1542803)
So now the Satphone company denies cutting off the SIM card:
From Latitude38 Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude

The Lat 38 blurb did mention another customer of the company had the same problem and the wife who was on shore was able to get service restored.

I am considering getting some type of device to communicate with shore and a sat phone was one of the options. I am not sure what the story is, but it made me question the reliability of a sat phone.

Spleen 16-05-2014 16:19

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomfl (Post 1542823)
The Lat 38 blurb did mention another customer of the company had the same problem and the wife who was on shore was able to get service restored.

I am considering getting some type of device to communicate with shore and a sat phone was one of the options. I am not sure what the story is, but it made me question the reliability of a sat phone.

Well, the article non specifically says "similar" problem it seems without going into exactly what the problem was for the other guy and why.

So I'm not sure it's any new information other than the manager saying legally they can't turn off service, even for unpaid bills...

JPA Cate 16-05-2014 16:20

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomfl (Post 1542823)
The Lat 38 blurb did mention another customer of the company had the same problem and the wife who was on shore was able to get service restored.

I am considering getting some type of device to communicate with shore and a sat phone was one of the options. I am not sure what the story is, but it made me question the reliability of a sat phone.

It isn't the reliability of the phone, itself, I don't think, as the technology has been around a while. It is the reliability of the service itself that is at issue.
Tough question.

On edit: maybe the real issue is whether or not we choose to accept the risk that anything electronic may not work how we want when we want it, for some unknown Murphyish reason the future holds.
Ann

boatman61 16-05-2014 16:23

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomfl (Post 1542823)
The Lat 38 blurb did mention another customer of the company had the same problem and the wife who was on shore was able to get service restored.

I am considering getting some type of device to communicate with shore and a sat phone was one of the options. I am not sure what the story is, but it made me question the reliability of a sat phone.

You could look into the 'Spot Phone'... should cover most every where your going..:thumb:
https://www.findmespot.com/en/index.php?cid=123

weavis 16-05-2014 16:30

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
I have a friend who breeds homing pigeons.
If you up to a bit of bird company, they are rather nice.
Come with a lovely message neck band.

oldragbaggers 16-05-2014 16:41

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey (Post 1542718)
There is no self. There is only emptiness.

You had me on the hook until that one, Monkey......:D:D

weavis 16-05-2014 16:42

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers (Post 1542835)
You had me on the hook until that one, Monkey......:D:D

LOL
he did it on purpose.....

tomfl 16-05-2014 17:52

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1542828)
You could look into the 'Spot Phone'... should cover most every where your going..:thumb:
SPOT Global Phone

I considered that option as well as some other Spot products. Also know about this one

InReach

Still researching which one is best.

Matt Johnson 16-05-2014 19:21

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1542828)
You could look into the 'Spot Phone'... should cover most every where your going..:thumb:
SPOT Global Phone

Isn't this just a rebranded Globalstar? I have yet to meet anyone who's happy with their Globalstar service. The company keep saying that coverage has improved...they've been saying that for at least four years. :whistling:

SaltyMonkey 16-05-2014 20:16

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by funjohnson (Post 1542916)
Isn't this just a rebranded Globalstar? I have yet to meet anyone who's happy with their Globalstar service. The company keep saying that coverage has improved...they've been saying that for at least four years. :whistling:

Yes it is, but the data plans are pretty nice

EDIT Looked at the coverage maps. Very iffy still :(

Matt Johnson 17-05-2014 07:04

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomfl (Post 1542875)
I considered that option as well as some other Spot products. Also know about this one

InReach

Still researching which one is best.

Way off topic, but that doesn't seem to be an issue in this thread. :)

Unless things have changed since I last looked, a real sat phone is cheaper overall than the Inreach. Incoming text are free with Iridium and Inmarsat, and you're charged for each one with the Inreach. Inmarsat's outgoing text are only 50 cents and you're not stuck with a monthly plan....we buy them in $100 blocks and have months to use them.


Matt

EzzyD 17-05-2014 10:19

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1542829)
I have a friend who breeds homing pigeons.
If you up to a bit of bird company, they are rather nice.
Come with a lovely message neck band.

Just make sure they are real pigeons. Not an albatros... (Albatros shall bring bad luck ).

Also insure you have some onions... In case of emergency you can always fry up some onions and pigeon... if he refuses to deliver your message..... ;)

Tantalus 17-05-2014 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by thuss (Post 1542334)
Eric, FWIW having done similar length passages in the pacific on almost the same boat (HC 38), I'd set off with my wife and young kids (and have) and would have pulled the epirb right when you did. I'd call in help and ditch our boat in a second to go with my daughter if she needed serious medical attention.

If I'm ever in the same situation I sure hope I won't be that ******* husband that thinks staying with the boat is more important than staying with the family.

You're a role model, not for living the dream, but for making the hard choices (which are the ones that really matter)!

Ditto!!!

boatman61 17-05-2014 18:28

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by funjohnson (Post 1542916)
Isn't this just a rebranded Globalstar? I have yet to meet anyone who's happy with their Globalstar service. The company keep saying that coverage has improved...they've been saying that for at least four years. :whistling:

Dunno.. just noticed it when I got my Spot Gen3 earlier this year so thought I'd mention it.. figured it'd have the same coverage as my Spot which gave my track across the Atlantic.

Tantalus 17-05-2014 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1542598)
This is not an official enquiry. This is a voluntary discussion by the captain of the vessel that was abandoned open to all, and as such hard questions have been asked.

With it NOT being an official enquiry, absolutes do not have to assessed. There is no material evidence to examine. The boat has gone. There is recollection and notes made and a series of events recorded, which all came together in the known outcome.

I have read and re read this thread several times. I have discussed with experienced professional mariners the actions they would have taken in certain conditions, and they agreed independently on certain tactics and methodology.

I have 'some' boat building experience, but also asked professionals who are experts in their field what they thought. I found out my surmises were wrong…

One of my colleagues here gave a medical opinion regarding childrens illnesses and quoted percentages based on studies. It is not my place to agree or disagree, but merely to consider what I would do in making my choice and whether or not his comments would affect my choice.

I looked at the preparations made to make the boat ready for a world cruise. I looked at the captains sailing experience and I looked at the crew members who would be on this trip.

I am responsible for my life. Part of the natural survival instinct for man, is to evaluate situations that we voluntarily place ourselves in.

Even before ANY voyage begins, and I am crew, I ask myself some questions.

[*]How much experience does a Captain have in handling boats? [*]How much experience does he have in undertaking the particular cruising that is being proposed. [*]What kind of personality is he or she. [*]Is there arrogance on display. [*]How much planning for the worst scenario has been undertaken?

And the big one........ Do I trust this person based on everything I know with my life?

Im not going to place a judgement on what went wrong in the events that unfolded. I dont know what really happened. This discussion did not answer any of the questions.

It is not unknown for humans to be economical with the truth, be it personally or in order to survive the rest of their life, its just the way it is. As humans we lie to ourselves more than we lie to others, and that is a whole other subject in itself.

Eric has explained from his perspective what happened. It may or may not be the whole truth. It however, is his truth and he will stand by it because that is what he sees. We have to take him at his explanation because as Rich Borens said, "he was there".

For the rest of us, with our experience of life, our abilities, our individual expertise, our suspicions of circumstance, our natures....... we will form an independent opinion based on all we have observed. It may be wrong, but it is where we will stand.

Im not seeing the outcome of this trip as the ‘problem’. It was the end of a series of events that started a long time ago.

Even though Eric did everything "RIGHT" in the combination and circumstances at the end, it didn’t matter.

Some decisions and attitudes lead a person down a path that are only one way. There are no “if onlys” and “ I could have done it except for………..’ You get one shot at this life thing and you gotta make a choice.

I don’t know Eric the same I don’t know people I read about in books or watch on TV. I see actions and results of actions. It doesn’t affect ME in any way. It does however make me think about attitudes, motivation, personality and preparation, and how MY projects and outcome depends on these things.

Unless we learn to be totally honest about ourselves and our real abilities, which are much MORE than whatever situation we find ourselves in (boat handling or knowing seafaring protocol aside) - the lesson will not have been learned and will happen again and again.

9 out 0f 10 mishaps happen for personality traits. Impatience, anger, sadness, disappointment, fear, arrogance, tiredness, lack of knowledge etc.

Its not for me to discuss publically what conclusions I have drawn regarding the episode, and frankly the only one who cares is me because it is not about this situation, it is about making sure that I do EVERYTHING possible to avoid being in the SAME situation given the same circumstances.

It doesnt mean I wont be shipwrecked....... It means it wont be these circumstances that got me there if I learned from This episode.

For that lesson, I am grateful to Eric and relieved for them all.

It is part of the human nature always to judge others very severely and, when the wind turns against us, always to find an excuse for our own misdeeds, or to blame someone else for our mistakes.

There is no need to blame Rebel Heart collectively for anything. Now they need to inwardly reflect and work it out what went wrong.

Many have given pointers here. Its up to them to take on board the hardest criticisms and see if………….. just if there is validity in the comments.

Thank you for an exceedingly erudite summation!

smackdaddy 17-05-2014 20:56

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Metaphysics and Satphones. Nice.

You guys are...special.

I'm outta here...until it gets interesting again (i.e. - RH owns up.)

SaltyMonkey 17-05-2014 21:13

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smackdaddy (Post 1543557)
Metaphysics and Satphones. Nice.

You guys are...special.

I'm outta here...until it gets interesting again (i.e. - RH owns up.)

Have a good one. Don't let the....oh never mind.

letsgetsailing3 17-05-2014 21:36

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey (Post 1542741)
Of course they can be proved. They have complete different domain space / problems to solve. If the domain space problems are different, and their results pass testing within their individual expected results, yet are different against each other, its provable.

Having a "different problem to solve" doesn't mean there isn't a shared domain. There are lots of commonalities between metaphysical and psychological introspection, and some of the problems are shared between the two.

"To be, or not to be" is the classic question in the shared space of inquiries about existence, as is "I think, therefore I am." Are they metaphysical or psychological? I'd suggest they're both. See: existentialism. What's more introspective than existence?

minaret 17-05-2014 21:54

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Existentialism? Really? You guys remind me of:



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2jqEoioTQDk

SaltyMonkey 17-05-2014 21:59

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 (Post 1543573)
Having a "different problem to solve" doesn't mean there isn't a shared domain. There are lots of commonalities between metaphysical and psychological introspection, and some of the problems are shared between the two.

"To be, or not to be" is the classic question in the shared space of inquiries about existence, as is "I think, therefore I am." Are they metaphysical or psychological? I'd suggest they're both. See: existentialism. What's more introspective than existence?

Except their not.

One explores existence with postulates. Metaphysics.

The other explores the nature on why you might be thinking about existence based on behavior. Psychology.

@ weavis. My goldfish theory is proving correct :D

letsgetsailing3 17-05-2014 22:31

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey (Post 1543589)
Except their not.

One explores existence with postulates. Metaphysics.

The other explores the nature on why you might be thinking about existence based on behavior. Psychology.

@ weavis. My goldfish theory is proving correct :D

Two problems with your post.

1) your distinctions aren't correct. Both metaphysics and psychology involve postulates, which is another word for hypothesis.

2) I didn't say the two were the same. I simply pointed out that there is overlap. The very contemplation of existence is metaphysics. Contemplation of the same subject occurs in psychology.

When you prove there is no overlap, you've proven me wrong. You just haven't done that. I don't think you CAN do that without making a false premise, as metaphysics is quite broad, as is psychology.

weavis 18-05-2014 02:09

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 (Post 1543605)
Two problems with your post.

1) your distinctions aren't correct. Both metaphysics and psychology involve postulates, which is another word for hypothesis.

2) I didn't say the two were the same. I simply pointed out that there is overlap. The very contemplation of existence is metaphysics. Contemplation of the same subject occurs in psychology.

When you prove there is no overlap, you've proven me wrong. You just haven't done that. I don't think you CAN do that without making a false premise, as metaphysics is quite broad, as is psychology.

Well, it really changed the landscape when I suggested to look into themselves and see what the problem was.. :flowers:

Look, I will take out all references to metaphysical, (That I never put in the first place) and make it easy.

People have personality traits. Kindness, arrogance, gentleness, etc.
People have attitudes.
People have dreams.
People have ways of doing things and priorities.

People are known for their core traits. These traits are what drive a person or what is reflected as being the motivating force in ANY situation.

A core trait will be THE common theme in equation.

A friend of mine who is a recovering alcoholic, once told me this gem.


Whatever the problem,
Whatever the situation that is causing dissension and strife, no matter what you think the problem is, if alcohol is involved,
Alcohol is the problem
.

Now replace the word alcohol with the negative trait that an individual has.

We all have them. One clinic partner of mine was driven by greed. You just knew whatever deal he was in, it was for his benefit only and no one else. This trait led to him losing his share in the clinic after he tried to screw us all.

Replace the word with arrogance. Replace the word with selfishness. Replace the word with Laziness etc etc….

Any major negative trait in the mix will be a golden thread through out ALL SITUATIONS, and will be the reason in the main for the outcome of any development.

We all have them. I have them, you have them.

What usually happens, say for a person who is arrogant or lazy, is that essential necessary and important work in preparation, is either ignored, overlooked or deemed not required for the end result. The cumulative result is a substandard product.

If a persons core trait, is an overriding negative one, albeit perhaps masked slightly so as to not be obvious, it will surface at the point of no return.

A friend of mine recently made an observation on another colleague that I laughed at, but essential was true……. This colleague is young, cocksure, arrogant, self willed, critical of others, thinks he knows best and ignores wisdom. We have noticed several ‘mistakes” creeping in from time to time that have been shrugged off as “unavoidable”..

My colleague calls him “An accident waiting to happen”. He will take a decision too far and someone will get hurt. His personality traits are the root.

My suggestion to look inward, is something we all need to do. To reflect on whether any of our personality traits translated into a reason or causation or contribution to the situation that we find ourselves in.

Ultimately, we humans have a protection mechanism too, we subconsciously evaluate all external stimuli and balance words against actions and body language and results. For those of us that apply common sense, we get a “feeling” if someone is OK or not…… a sense that perhaps something does not add up to the package being sold to us and we keep our distance.

None of the above is specific to this situation, it’s a generic explanation.

What is specific to this situation is that a lot of C.F. members are critical of actions taken, and certain aspects of the preparation and some have questioned the probability of certain events occurring in the manner described.

I don’t place myself in any camp. My nautical experience is limited to my nautical experience and I am NOT a professional mariner. I am not a boat builder.

For me, the question is not what happened or the explanation there of.

The question is WHY.

Why do many not agree with aspects of the story?
Why do many question the integrity of the boat build and repairs?
Why do many question certain events in the sequence?

And ultimately…… Why are there questions of doubt at all?

If there is any validity in the comments some have made, then my hope is that the crew of Rebel Heart (deceased) will admit to themselves that changes have to be made. If there is NO validity, then they must continue on with their lives in freedom from a bad conscience.

The rest of humanity will make their own decisions about us.

That is all any of us can do.



boatman61 18-05-2014 02:45

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1543655)


Well, it really changed the landscape when I suggested to look into themselves and see what the problem was.. :flowers:

Look, I will take out all references to metaphysical, (That I never put in the first place) and make it easy.

People have personality traits. Kindness, arrogance, gentleness, etc.
People have attitudes.
People have dreams.
People have ways of doing things and priorities.

People are known for their core traits. These traits are what drive a person or what is reflected as being the motivating force in ANY situation.

A core trait will be THE common theme in equation.

A friend of mine who is a recovering alcoholic, once told me this gem.


Whatever the problem,
Whatever the situation that is causing dissension and strife, no matter what you think the problem is, if alcohol is involved,
Alcohol is the problem
.

Now replace the word alcohol with the negative trait that an individual has.

We all have them. One clinic partner of mine was driven by greed. You just knew whatever deal he was in, it was for his benefit only and no one else. This trait led to him losing his share in the clinic after he tried to screw us all.

Replace the word with arrogance. Replace the word with selfishness. Replace the word with Laziness etc etc….

Any major negative trait in the mix will be a golden thread through out ALL SITUATIONS, and will be the reason in the main for the outcome of any development.

We all have them. I have them, you have them.

What usually happens, say for a person who is arrogant or lazy, is that essential necessary and important work in preparation, is either ignored, overlooked or deemed not required for the end result. The cumulative result is a substandard product.

If a persons core trait, is an overriding negative one, albeit perhaps masked slightly so as to not be obvious, it will surface at the point of no return.

A friend of mine recently made an observation on another colleague that I laughed at, but essential was true……. This colleague is young, cocksure, arrogant, self willed, critical of others, thinks he knows best and ignores wisdom. We have noticed several ‘mistakes” creeping in from time to time that have been shrugged off as “unavoidable”..

My colleague calls him “An accident waiting to happen”. He will take a decision too far and someone will get hurt. His personality traits are the root.

My suggestion to look inward, is something we all need to do. To reflect on whether any of our personality traits translated into a reason or causation or contribution to the situation that we find ourselves in.

Ultimately, we humans have a protection mechanism too, we subconsciously evaluate all external stimuli and balance words against actions and body language and results. For those of us that apply common sense, we get a “feeling” if someone is OK or not…… a sense that perhaps something does not add up to the package being sold to us and we keep our distance.

None of the above is specific to this situation, it’s a generic explanation.

What is specific to this situation is that a lot of C.F. members are critical of actions taken, and certain aspects of the preparation and some have questioned the probability of certain events occurring in the manner described.

I don’t place myself in any camp. My nautical experience is limited to my nautical experience and I am NOT a professional mariner. I am not a boat builder.

For me, the question is not what happened or the explanation there of.

The question is WHY.

Why do many not agree with aspects of the story?
Why do many question the integrity of the boat build and repairs?
Why do many question certain events in the sequence?

And ultimately…… Why are there questions of doubt at all?

If there is any validity in the comments some have made, then my hope is that the crew of Rebel Heart (deceased) will admit to themselves that changes have to be made. If there is NO validity, then they must continue on with their lives in freedom from a bad conscience.

The rest of humanity will make their own decisions about us.

That is all any of us can do.



Its the Nature of Man...:whistling:
Suck it up..:p:p:p

Andrew B. 18-05-2014 04:13

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1543655)


A friend of mine who is a recovering alcoholic, once told me this gem.


Whatever the problem,
Whatever the situation that is causing dissension and strife, no
matter what you think the problem is, if alcohol is involved,
Alcohol is the problem
.



Your friend has a thinking problem. Alcohol is but a symptom of that. Or was.

Paul L 18-05-2014 04:58

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by weavis (Post 1543655)

........
For me, the question is not what happened or the explanation there of.

The question is WHY.

Why do many not agree with aspects of the story?
Why do many question the integrity of the boat build and repairs?
Why do many question certain events in the sequence?

And ultimately…… Why are there questions of doubt at all?

If there is any validity in the comments some have made, then my hope is that the crew of Rebel Heart (deceased) will admit to themselves that changes have to be made. If there is NO validity, then they must continue on with their lives in freedom from a bad conscience.

The rest of humanity will make their own decisions about us.

That is all any of us can do.

I'm sure it was not intended this way, but this sounds hard on RH. There will always be some validity(your term) for post accident evaluations. That does not mean that RH should not be free of a "bad conscience".
Your descriptions of personality traits and the implication that they necessarily lead to the out comes of our lives is probably true in the broader sense. Only someone with a certain adventuresome personality is going to take a boat to sea for recreation. Its not clear to me how that information about their personality gives you a lot of useful insight into a rare accident.

DoubleWhisky 18-05-2014 05:27

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate (Post 1542164)
I remember when we were planning the trip from Cabo to the Marquesas, one which we have done only twice, Jim knew that leaving from further south in Mexico would give one a longish period of lighter airs than we wanted to chance (about a week), and this was in a boat that could sail well in light airs.

Now, I'm wondering whether a Cabo departure point would have given the RH a significantly better wind angle? This question really relates to choice of boat, and all the heavy displacement Taiwan built double enders seem to me to be at a disadvantage in the light wind strength situations. And it would seem that if you're planning on running a water maker, you would need a lot of "extra" fuel, especially if you "need" to motorsail, for comfort or to maintain a previously calculated minimum days' run, which means either added tank capacity or jerry jugs on deck, which we've never done (just the one of water lashed in the cockpit).

Maybe, if one has a heavy displacement boat, you'd want to think a whole lot about what light air sails could move your boat satisfactorily off the wind in the 10-15 knot of wind speed range, if you want to make the Mexico to Marquesas run. [ To SailorBoy1, Mexico to Marquesas is probably the most logical stepping off point for north American west coasters who intend to cross the Pacific or circumnavigate. Its main disadvantage is that you have to go back up to Cabo if you've been enjoying the mainland, upwind and up current.]

Ann


Ann and Jim,

please forgive me for asking probably silly question, but I have no any real knowledge regarding the area...

Does it make any sense to go south from mexico to the Ecquador and try to cross to Marquesas from there?
I know it is much longer way, but can not it be better weather wise???

Just being curious...

Best regards

Tomasz

boatman61 18-05-2014 05:32

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul L (Post 1543715)
I'm sure it was not intended this way, but this sounds hard on RH. There will always be some validity(your term) for post accident evaluations. That does not mean that RH should not be free of a "bad conscience".
Your descriptions of personality traits and the implication that they necessarily lead to the out comes of our lives is probably true in the broader sense. Only someone with a certain adventuresome personality is going to take a boat to sea for recreation. Its not clear to me how that information about their personality gives you a lot of useful insight into a rare accident.

The 'accidents' are not rare.. nor the poor state (in hindsight) of the vessel... many broach and recover.. many have failure of systems and/or boat integrity... many are unsafe in the eye's of others... many also have had to call in help for sick crew and.. from what I can make out with the USCG its a policy of 'One off.. All off'..
Did Eric have the option to stay on board if things were as bad as suggested.. (regardless of what he actually chose to do).. or even if they were not..??
From my understanding of past CG rescues and the debates on here that followed them.. I think not:whistling:
The only rare thing about this event is that there was a young child considered to be at risk of dying..
I doubt anyone here thinks Eric made the wrong call.. if the child was in danger he did good..:thumb:
I don't even think he did bad taking the kids..
I know folk who've given birth on board.. sailed the world as they raised their kids and only slowing down as they reached school age and felt an education amongst peers was a good idea.
My interest lies in his seamanship and choices made on route selection etc.. not so much as to criticise.. but as to hear/suggest better options... such as Jim Cate's saying a departure from further N is better for steadier winds and reaching a more favourable point to cross the Equator..
These are the things us 'Voyeurs' can learn from.. or assist those looking to learn..
Simple things like.. in theory an ocean voyage should only take 20 days.. carry food and water for forty.. and don't trust what you put in your tanks.. else you'll end up calling up a Container Ship for drinking water.... OOPPPPSSSSSSSSSSS:rolleyes::D

Prairie Chicken 18-05-2014 05:35

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Whatever the problem,
Whatever the situation that is causing dissension and strife, no matter what you think the problem is, if alcohol is involved,
Alcohol is the problem.

Now replace the word alcohol with the negative trait that an individual has.
Very astute! Or, as Boatie more succinctly suggests, Its the Nature of Man...

boatman61 18-05-2014 05:37

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky (Post 1543732)
Ann and Jim,

please forgive me for asking probably silly question, but I have no any real knowledge regarding the area...

Does it make any sense to go south from mexico to the Ecquador and try to cross to Marquesas from there?
I know it is much longer way, but can not it be better weather wise???

Just being curious...

Best regards

Tomasz

Not really in my opinion..
I motored most of the way to the Galapagos from Panama.. winds were very light and variable..
I share Jims opinion about starting off further N and crossing the Equator further W where the belt is much narrower..
But.. others may know better..:thumb:

DoubleWhisky 18-05-2014 05:47

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1543742)
Not really in my opinion..
I motored most of the way to the Galapagos from Panama.. winds were very light and variable..
I share Jims opinion about starting off further N and crossing the Equator further W where the belt is much narrower..
But.. others may know better..:thumb:

Thank You Boatie :flowers:

It clarifies the things much to me :)

Palarran 18-05-2014 05:48

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1543737)
The 'accidents' are not rare.. nor the poor state (in hindsight) of the vessel... many broach and recover.. many have failure of systems and/or boat integrity... many are unsafe in the eye's of others... many also have had to call in help for sick crew and.. from what I can make out with the USCG its a policy of 'One off.. All off'..
Did Eric have the option to stay on board if things were as bad as suggested.. (regardless of what he actually chose to do).. or even if they were not..??
From my understanding of past CG rescues and the debates on here that followed them.. I think not:whistling:
The only rare thing about this event is that there was a young child considered to be at risk of dying..
I doubt anyone here thinks Eric made the wrong call.. if the child was in danger he did good..:thumb:
I don't even think he did bad taking the kids..
I know folk who've given birth on board.. sailed the world as they raised their kids and only slowing down as they reached school age and felt an education amongst peers was a good idea.
My interest lies in his seamanship and choices made on route selection etc.. not so much as to criticise.. but as to hear/suggest better options... such as Jim Cate's saying a departure from further N is better for steadier winds and reaching a more favourable point to cross the Equator..
These are the things us 'Voyeurs' can learn from.. or assist those looking to learn..
Simple things like.. in theory an ocean voyage should only take 20 days.. carry food and water for forty.. and don't trust what you put in your tanks.. else you'll end up calling up a Container Ship for drinking water.... OOPPPPSSSSSSSSSSS:rolleyes::D

What does this have to do with Metaphysics though :)


Really Phil, I agree with the post 100%. We tend to focus on the last domino that falls and disregard the first that started the chain reaction.

boatman61 18-05-2014 06:00

Re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)
 
[QUOTE=Palarran;1543752]What does this have to do with Metaphysics though :) QUOTE]

meta·phys·ics

noun plural but singular in construction \-ˈfi-ziks\ .headword .ld_on_collegiate { margin:10px 0 0 0;padding:0 0 0 19px; width: 405px;} .ld_on_collegiate p {margin:0 0 10px 0;padding:0;line-height:20px; } .ld_on_collegiate p.bottom_entry {margin:0 0 3px 0;padding:0;line-height:20px;} #mwEntryData div.headword .ld_on_collegiate p em, .ld_on_collegiate p em { color: black; font-weight: normal; } #mwEntryData div.headword + div.d { margin-top: -7px; } .ld_on_collegiate .bnote { font-weight: bold; } .ld_on_collegiate .sl, .ld_on_collegiate .ssl { font-style: italic; } : the part of philosophy that is concerned with the basic
Cruisers Forum members
causes and nature of things
**** Happens:p:p:p


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