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-   -   Schengen rules have changed (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f17/schengen-rules-have-changed-122641.html)

monte 30-03-2014 06:54

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1505305)
, you will get free medical emergency care irrespective of your visa position
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Not really accurate. If you are an EU citizen you generally get reciprocal benefits and receive the same care a citizen of that country receives, if you have your EU health care card on hand at the time of treatment. Unfortunately Jen didn't have her card in Portugal (she's French) and an emergency trip to the hospital for a migraine cost us over $1000 euro, not including the Ambulance ride.

Barra, I'll have my assistant call your assistant to sort out these schengan shinnanihans so we can meet at the club for a G&T before teeing off eh.

chala 30-03-2014 07:54

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1503296)
Ity was also a very narrow majority suggesting the issues may be revisited.

News Suisse - 24heures.ch
votation/story/17363121?dossier_id=2517
· L'initiative de l'UDC contre l'immigration de masse a très
largement mobilisé les électeurs dimanche. La participation a atteint quelque 56,5 %. Il faut remonter à 2005 et aux accords de Schengen/Dublin pour retrouver un taux semblable (56,8%).
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1503296)
I think you are interpretating that wrong.

The way I see it is, that Denmark is in the Schengen area and if a person spend 90 days in Denmark then that person would have spent 90 days in the Schengen area. Now if Denmark did steal tourism from other countries I am sure that these other countries will retaliate by offering similar “visa free travel” which would be good for Cruisers. For example if Greece, Spain and Italy where to offer the same “visa free travel” then it would be possible to stay forever in a warmer part of the Schengen area this, until the EU put a stop to it. (DKK500 = USD83/day, not much.)

goboatingnow 30-03-2014 08:17

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chala (Post 1505375)
News Suisse - 24heures.ch

votation/story/17363121?dossier_id=2517

·L'initiative de l'UDC contre l'immigration de masse a très

largement mobilisé les électeurs dimanche. La participation a atteint quelque 56,5 %. Il faut remonter à 2005 et aux accords de Schengen/Dublin pour retrouver un taux semblable (56,8%).





The way I see it is, that Denmark is in the Schengen area and if a person spend 90 days in Denmark then that person would have spent 90 days in the Schengen area. Now if Denmark did steal tourism from other countries I am sure that these other countries will retaliate by offering similar “visa free travel” which would be good for Cruisers. For example if Greece, Spain and Italy where to offer the same “visa free travel” then it would be possible to stay forever in a warmer part of the Schengen area this, until the EU put a stop to it. (DKK500 = USD83/day, not much.)


Chaka, while 56,5 percent turned out, the referendum was only passed by the tiniest majority , 50.3 %. Not at all a resounding decision. I suspect it will be revisited.

Your interpretation of " Denmark " is not correct. If I qualify for a national exemption , example because I from Australia, then I enter Denmark using that " visa" , I may stay in such country for the duration of that visa, then when I leave denmark and go into adjoining countries, I now have no visa, so therefor I rely on my Schengen visa for those countries and I now have 90 days in the Schengen area.

It's not a matter of conjecture, that's how it works

These bilateral agreements existed before Schengen, countries in the Schengen area cannot subsequently offer different tourist visas, so your tourist " race" can't occur as the Swiss are about to find out.

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

chala 30-03-2014 08:32

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by svBeBe (Post 1505267)
We plan to check into obtaining a 90-day visa for Spain when we are back in the USA next winter. Spain also requires medical insurance meeting their requirements and we can buy that

You should not need a visa for 90 days, Schengen is 90 days and does not require a medical insurance. A medical insurance for stays of over 90 days is in fact an EU requirement that can be apparently be avoided if you contribute to a national health scheme in your own contry, Medicare for Australian. If you rent a car for example French detaxe, the accident insurance is included in the cost of rental and should be the same for any other rental.

chala 30-03-2014 10:24

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1505387)
Chaka, while 56,5 percent turned out, the referendum was only passed by the tiniest majority , 50.3 %. Not at all a resounding decision. I suspect it will be revisited.

Do not hold your breath. In 1992 the Swiss rejected EEA membership. More than 20 years could be exhausting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1505387)
Your interpretation of " Denmark " is not correct. If I qualify for a national exemption , example because I from Australia, then I enter Denmark using that " visa" , I may stay in such country for the duration of that visa, then when I leave denmark and go into adjoining countries, I now have no visa, so therefor I rely on my Schengen visa for those countries and I now have 90 days in the Schengen area.

It's not a matter of conjecture, that's how it works

Your view not mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1505387)
These bilateral agreements existed before Schengen, countries in the Schengen area cannot subsequently offer different tourist visas, so your tourist " race" can't occur as the Swiss are about to find out.

I would think that nearly every European countries have bilateral agreements that predated Schengen. I would not be surprised if the French had an agreement with the USA since Lafayette. The Swiss would have cross borders agreements and many others. An interesting one is for the right of French prostitute to work in Geneva that date from the Napoleonique wars. So the Swiss wont miss much. :)

hellosailor 30-03-2014 12:26

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Dave, I have a friend who does have two US passports. Supposedly for the express purpose of being able to send one off for long visa approvals while traveling on the other one. (They're in the import business.)

Supposedly it is legal, I've seen words to that effect on the US DoS web site last time I renewed my own.

However, using duplicate passports in order to intentionally evade or defraud international regulations? That would probably result in both being revoked, as well as criminal actions here and abroad.

Anyone who applies for anything "special" from the DoS can also presume they'll get "special" attention and be put on "special" lists from then on. These computer thingies they use nowadays make that real simple. Even if the Malaysians and others haven't figured out how to use them yet.

hellosailor 30-03-2014 12:37

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
chuckr-
Before anyone apologizes to the people of Tunisia, or their new and Islamist government, perhaps those folks would care to pay the bill they owe the US?

For storming the US embassy in 2012, and causing considerable damage. The US DoS hasn't put Tunisia on a watchlist yet, but they do remind travelers that there is a recent spate of violent mobs and rioting there. And private groups claim it is an outspokenly "anti-Christian" country, which often will also translate into anti-Western.

I can't remember the last time that any mob stormed a US embassy in the EU. Or Scandanavia. Or the Carib. Did I miss the news?

Barra 30-03-2014 19:02

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by monte (Post 1505317)
Not really accurate. If you are an EU citizen you generally get reciprocal benefits and receive the same care a citizen of that country receives, if you have your EU health care card on hand at the time of treatment. Unfortunately Jen didn't have her card in Portugal (she's French) and an emergency trip to the hospital for a migraine cost us over $1000 euro, not including the Ambulance ride.

Barra, I'll have my assistant call your assistant to sort out these schengan shinnanihans so we can meet at the club for a G&T before teeing off eh.

Tally Ho old chap!

svBeBe 30-03-2014 23:40

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chala (Post 1505402)
You should not need a visa for 90 days, Schengen is 90 days and does not require a medical insurance. A medical insurance for stays of over 90 days is in fact an EU requirement that can be apparently be avoided if you contribute to a national health scheme in your own contry, Medicare for Australian. If you rent a car for example French detaxe, the accident insurance is included in the cost of rental and should be the same for any other rental.

You miss the point. I am speaking of a 90-day visa for just Spain. Separate from the Schengen 90-day visa. To obtain a longer stay visa for any of the countries requires purchasing medical insurance for that country. At least for every EU country that we have looked into. And 99.99% of American medical insurance policies will not cover, so this involves purchasing medical insurance specific for that country which meets the individual country requirements. For us for Italy that meant $4600 per person because policy had to be purchased for a one-year period even though we only wanted 90 days. Have not checked for Spain yet and will do that when we are back in the States next winter since the visa must be obtained there. Also, US Medicare, which is the national insurance program for elderly people like us, does not cover outside the USA. There is no reciprocal national health insurance program in the USA that is recognized anywhere outside the USA.

Judy

svBeBe 30-03-2014 23:58

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1505305)
I'm not condoning it, merely pointing out a response from another poster.

I fail to see why having a heart attack , or getting hit by a car will have anything to do with overstaying. Europe isn't the US, you will get free medical emergency care irrespective of your visa position

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Seriously? You do not see where having a medical emergency in a country in which you are illegally present will present a problem? That is fantasy. You might receive medical care but then you will have a visit from the authorities.

As to the other poster who wanted the names of the boats which visited Tunisia last season and reported their experiences to us. If those people wanted their experiences published they can do so. I will not divulge names of people who sent me private emails about their experiences anywhere. Only one of those people participates in this forum; and then only rarely. And he is one who stayed in Tunisia 10 days. As he is no longer in the Med and is out of this Schengen nonsense, I doubt he is bothering to read this thread.

Judy

chuckr 31-03-2014 01:20

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
hellosailor -- svbebe -- i have had my say and will let your ignorance rule you --

goboatingnow 31-03-2014 02:00

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Seriously? You do not see where having a medical emergency in a country in which you are illegally present will present a problem? That is fantasy. You might receive medical care but then you will have a visit from the authorities.

I think this part of the thread is not germane to the discussion, so I will not continue, I certainly know how the medical system treats people and they don't look at your passport.

But its not really an issue for debate here. In fact this thread has reached the end of its useful life. The Schengen agreement is in place, its a fact of life , all people can do is live within its confines or not as they wish. Its not going away.

dave

jckb 31-03-2014 02:13

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by svBeBe (Post 1505887)
You miss the point. I am speaking of a 90-day visa for just Spain. Separate from the Schengen 90-day visa.

<snip>

For us for Italy that meant $4600 per person because policy had to be purchased for a one-year period even though we only wanted 90 days.

<snip>

Judy

I guess you're talking here about a residence permit. Within Schengen, these are normally only given for periods longer than 90 days (typically for a year) and they usually require: (1) demonstration that you have funds sufficient for the period (2) medical insurance for the period (3) a purpose for the stay (owning a property or business in the country, locally sponsored employment, research, or education)

As mentioned, exceptions exist for certain nationalities (New Zealand in particular, but some others too) aiming to stay in certain Schengen countries. These exceptions allow visitor/residence visas up to a year. They are not normally dependent on demonstrating funds, insurance or purpose, though I stand to be corrected on that point.

With one of these longer permits, the law permits this visitor (not otherwise resident in the EU) to spend 90 days out of 180 within other Schengen countries. However, with no internal borders there is no means of enforcing this regulation.

Also, with a right to reside in one EU country, you do not need a Schengen visa to visit others. However, having said that, border controls can be insisted upon if people arrive in their own boats. In this case, application of the rules is muddled. Some immigration officials may accept a valid residence permit for another EU country as adequate. Others may insist on a Schengen entry stamp.

In the latter case, get an exit stamp as soon as possible to avoid future difficulties.

There's a brief summary of all this stuff at Time Abroad | JimB Sail . It's over a year since I investigated all this in detail, so some changes may have occurred. If so, I'm sure Dave will jump in and put me right.

Does that help?

JimB

goboatingnow 31-03-2014 02:28

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
actually JIM your spot on. There is a muddle where national visas meet Schengen Visas ( or Visa wavier), EU_Lex refers to " may to regarded as overstaying etc", in essence as you said , without any internal controls its a moot point.

Other areas of confusion are non Schengen area EU boats arriving in Schengen area countries, There is a requirement for a passport check and a crew list , but this is getting increasing difficult to do.


dave

chuckr 01-04-2014 05:46

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor (Post 1505563)
chuckr-
Before anyone apologizes to the people of Tunisia, or their new and Islamist government, perhaps those folks would care to pay the bill they owe the US?

For storming the US embassy in 2012, and causing considerable damage. The US DoS hasn't put Tunisia on a watchlist yet, but they do remind travelers that there is a recent spate of violent mobs and rioting there. And private groups claim it is an outspokenly "anti-Christian" country, which often will also translate into anti-Western.

I can't remember the last time that any mob stormed a US embassy in the EU. Or Scandanavia. Or the Carib. Did I miss the news?


hellosailor -- didn't see this coming did you -- but then again maybe with vastly superior knowledge and great intellect you can convince the state dept they are wrong

U.S. State Department Lifts Tunisia Travel Warning - Tunisia Live : Tunisia Live


hehehehe -- love it - it is about time

jim_thomsen 02-04-2014 22:35

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Wow, I hate to come in posting after this long series of debates.....
Last time we cruised Europe for 3 years with little problem, but we are now returning and would like to do it legally.
Is anyone familiar with the German "Self-Employment" Visa? It does require proof of income outside the EU, but if granted is for 1-2 years.


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