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-   -   Schengen rules have changed (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f17/schengen-rules-have-changed-122641.html)

svBeBe 24-03-2014 04:16

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1500152)
The Schengen rules were (are being ) rewritten to remove the effect of the Bot ruling from the EU ECJ. France lost that case , hey presto law gets changed ! In effect it does not really change anything or effect anyone.

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It affects (not effects) 6 people sitting on boats berthed in this tiny 24 boat marina at this moment. Guess we are not 'anyone.'

And, as to your other comment about whine, whine, whine, when I next go to the USA can I stay 90 days in each state, whine, whine, whine -- please do note that those are STATES, not countries. Otherwise, each of those states might have a vote at the UN...as do each of the European COUNTRIES do. An off-topic example, but illustrates the absurdity.


Judy

sailorboy1 24-03-2014 04:31

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
So what happens to a cruiser if they overstay in the Med?

Katiusha 24-03-2014 06:07

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Imho, Schengen is really nice for travel. Prior to Schengen they had border checks at every country, and, considering that only some EU countries are as big as US states, that really impeded land travel. Not mentioning the pain to get visas for every. single. country (if you weren't from a visa waiver country - and that differed from country to country as well).

So lamenting lack of ease of travel on a single visa through multiple countries is strange. Imho, of course. Granted, this visa may not cover fringe cases (and 90+ day travel is a fringe case considering number of tourists visiting every year), but still much nicer than it used to be. Imho, of course :)

I would also agree that it would be ideal to cover our type of travel as well on Schengen visa, but it might be a low priority future improvement item, you never know :)

goboatingnow 24-03-2014 09:30

Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by svBeBe (Post 1500434)
It affects (not effects) 6 people sitting on boats berthed in this tiny 24 boat marina at this moment. Guess we are not 'anyone.'



And, as to your other comment about whine, whine, whine, when I next go to the USA can I stay 90 days in each state, whine, whine, whine -- please do note that those are STATES, not countries. Otherwise, each of those states might have a vote at the UN...as do each of the European COUNTRIES do. An off-topic example, but illustrates the absurdity.





Judy


You miss the whole point of the EU obviously. It aim is the creation of a form of US of Europe. Countries have given up considerable sovereignty to facilitate this process. In some respects certain things are easier across EU internal borders then across US states.

The effect of the ruling was to prevent the back to back loophole. I suspect very few people are in a position to make use of it anyway and very few countries immigration actually tolerated the loophole irrespective of what the ECJ said.

EU countries and UN is one of historic significance. I'm sure if the UN was set up at the founding of the US we might have had a few US states individually represented, given there historic antipathy to the union.


And please tell me exactly how it's affecting those 6 people.

Dave

goboatingnow 24-03-2014 09:32

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sailorboy1 (Post 1500444)
So what happens to a cruiser if they overstay in the Med?


If they exit by yacht and not by aircraft and they don't overstay the 90 days in one country. Very little actually happens.

Dave

hoppy 24-03-2014 09:53

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by svBeBe (Post 1500434)
It affects (not effects) 6 people sitting on boats berthed in this tiny 24 boat marina at this moment. Guess we are not 'anyone.'

And, as to your other comment about whine, whine, whine, when I next go to the USA can I stay 90 days in each state, whine, whine, whine -- please do note that those are STATES, not countries. Otherwise, each of those states might have a vote at the UN...as do each of the European COUNTRIES do. An off-topic example, but illustrates the absurdity.


Judy

1% of tourists will moan about the 90 day visa whilst the other 99% will be pleased that they can go on a grand tour of 26 countries and not once have to queue up at passport control.

Schengen is not about the bloody foreigners, its about making life easier for us EU citizens.

Sure Schengen sucks for certain tourists, but I'd rather it suck for you than having it suck for me :whistling:

ilCigno 24-03-2014 10:16

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
And if I may add, every sailor and every visiting boat (even Americans ;) ) is as welcome in Europe as ever. If you ever want to visit Dutch sailing waters I, or one of my sailing friends over here, would be glad to welcome you.

And as far as I know at our Schengen borders we don't require you to be fingerprinted (yes, all ten), photographed, unfriendly questioned, body Xray scanned, body searched and to fill in forms even if you DO have the required visa as we experience each time when we fly into the US..... :)

MBLittle 24-03-2014 10:18

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1500707)
If they exit by yacht and not by aircraft and they don't overstay the 90 days in one country. Very little actually happens.

Dave

I'm confused. Maybe in reading wrong or reading into it.

But this post makes me think that if a cruising vessel spent 60 days in Greece and then 60 days in Italy before heading off for 60 days in Spain, that the Italians simply won't care that you spent an extra 30 days in their country, but Spaniards will turn you away because you've maxed out the 90 day max.

Is that basically what you said? Again, I could be confused.

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MBLittle 24-03-2014 10:19

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MBLittle (Post 1500745)
I'm confused. Maybe I'm reading wrong or reading into it.

But this post makes me think that if a cruising vessel spent 60 days in Greece and then 60 days in Italy before heading off for 60 days in Spain, that the Italians simply won't care that you spent an extra 30 days in their country, but Spaniards will turn you away because you've maxed out the 90 day max.

Is that basically what you said? Again, I could be confused.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app



Sent from my LG-E980 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

MBLittle 24-03-2014 10:19

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
That was supposed to be an edit, not quote

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MBLittle 24-03-2014 10:25

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Another thing that I'm getting from EU citizens is that if it was easier for them to stay in the US longer, they'd be OK with exempting US vessels from Scengen. Is that fair to say?

Is it really that hard to obtain a visa for the states? Harder than it is to obtain a visa for each particular EU country someone wishes to visit(which won't cover all of the EU)? If given a visa from the federal government, are you not allowed to travel to ANY state, which is quite different than EU visas?

Seems to me that an EU visa for certain countries like OZ, Japan, US, Canada, etc that covers all EU partners would be an easy solution. One that doesn't put any more possibility of illegal foreign immigration more than a US visa would.

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goboatingnow 24-03-2014 10:27

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MBLittle (Post 1500745)
I'm confused. Maybe in reading wrong or reading into it.

But this post makes me think that if a cruising vessel spent 60 days in Greece and then 60 days in Italy before heading off for 60 days in Spain, that the Italians simply won't care that you spent an extra 30 days in their country, but Spaniards will turn you away because you've maxed out the 90 day max.

Is that basically what you said? Again, I could be confused.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

The on the ground experience, is that maritime immigration will not generally look through your entry and exit stamps trying to work out where the 90 days started. BUT they could.

Often in several cases, immigration just restamped the schenegen visa back into the passport , starting the 90 days again without looking for the previous entries.

Airports tend to be more anal.

Since you aren't required to get exit stamps per say and often they are difficult to get ( even the entry stamps are difficult to get ) , then many maritime immigration are a bit easier on cruisers, as they know the issues.

Unfortunately that doesn't prevent you from running foul of an officious type. But to date to my personal knowledge, "innocent" overstays by yachts have resulted in verbal warnings ( on exit), I know of nobody that got the dreaded " Entry refused" stamp or a big fine. There have been some instances of that in Greece amongst backpackers and also Austria and Germany.

What I meant was that don't use up over 90 days in any one country , i.e. say 60 , 60 , 60 etc. as I said often they just look at their own countries admission dates and not Schenegen as a whole .

Unfortunately, increasingly its tightening up.

dave

goboatingnow 24-03-2014 10:38

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MBLittle (Post 1500751)
Another thing that I'm getting from EU citizens is that if it was easier for them to stay in the US longer, they'd be OK with exempting US vessels from Scengen. Is that fair to say?

Is it really that hard to obtain a visa for the states? Harder than it is to obtain a visa for each particular EU country someone wishes to visit(which won't cover all of the EU)? If given a visa from the federal government, are you not allowed to travel to ANY state, which is quite different than EU visas?

Seems to me that an EU visa for certain countries like OZ, Japan, US, Canada, etc that covers all EU partners would be an easy solution. One that doesn't put any more possibility of illegal foreign immigration more than a US visa would.

Sent from my LG-E980 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

There was "interesting " political sniping thats resulted in various 90 days rulings, It was a long beef of the EU that the US exempted certain EU countries via the US visa wavier and didn't excempt others, The EU has for long argued that the EU should be treated as the same across the community.

When the Schengen agreement was signed some of those issues set the decision to go with 90 days.

Where the uS to automatically grant EU visa waivers 6 months in the US, I think there would be significant pressure on the EU to reciprocate. SO write your congressman.

EU wide long stay visas, are a much harder nut to crack, primarily because immigration oversight by computer is very developed in the US ( and very overbearing, I mean we're finger printed remember!) . The EU would find it very difficult under its laws to develop the same draconian system as the US has. Hence long stay visas are now in effect "regional " visas. A EU wide long stay visa would simply require too many overarching surveillance systems.

Note today long stay EU country visas are very difficult to get, most are work or study type bias and unsuitable for cruisers.

Remember today, even under SIS II ( Schengen Information System II) , the EU does not maintain community wide data on you length of stay. Hence for example, Spain cannot electronically determine your stay in Italy. This is because data protection acts in various countries forbid the export of that type of personal data. There is a new system called EURSUR that is attempting to do this for African immigrants along the Med border.

SO long term EU wide extended stay tourist visas will most likely never come. There is also the issue of demand.


And Yes its difficult to get a B1 in the US and even now if you enter on a B1, immigration will not stamp you in for more then 90 days anyway ( even though you can technically reenter) .

I suspect if they could the US would discontinue issuing B1s for visa wavier countries. I certainly have had a hard time reviewing it, ( I wanted it for yachts)

Unfortunately theres no easy answer for the small handful of US cruisers

( Note Auzzies and especially NZers have special bilateral agreement's that predate Schengen and hence can stay much longer)


Dave

MBLittle 24-03-2014 10:57

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Thread drift warning:

As each day passes for us, the encumbrance of US citizenship surpasses the benefits of.

Also, side note, when I lived in England for 4 years, it seemed to me that most immigration concern was from African and Arabic countries. With such powerful bonds, I find it hard that the US and EU can't come to some semblance of a civilized agreement.

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sailorboy1 24-03-2014 10:59

Re: Schengen rules have changed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sailorboy1 (Post 1500444)
So what happens to a cruiser if they overstay in the Med?


Let me rephrase, what could they and/or likely do?


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