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-   -   Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f17/greek-tax-merged-4-threads-115410.html)

hoppy 11-12-2013 02:11

Some people dump boats on town quays for 10 or 11 months of the year where it is free preventing visiting boats from docking and spending money in the town.

I hope these people get caught up with and pay the tax, then piss off never to be seen again!

jckb 11-12-2013 02:27

re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1411730)
Jim, its misreading the translation to suggest that the 12m+ can pay by the month. The introduction provided a few posts ago, which I believe is a better translation that the CA one, clearly states its an annual tax. Hence it cant be both a monthly and an annually tax.

I don't think you have seen the CA translation. What we published is an interpretation of our translation. The translation is quite clear, boats over 12m have two options for reducing their fees; pay for one month at a time, or go for a 30% discount
Quote:

Furthermore , its entirely illogical to suggest that a 11.5m boat has to pay for a year and a 12m can pay by the month.
The year rate for under 12m is 400, the same as the three month rate for 13.3m craft. That's the logic . . .

athene 11-12-2013 02:38

re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jckb (Post 1412141)
We're asking for "a period of grace" or "permission to depart without payment" in order to "appease the understandable anger of visiting yachtsmen forced into an unplanned expenditure"

:thumb: The more subscriptions we have, the more we can work on your behalf.

Jim, you've answered my request. My direct debit authority is now in the mail. Meanwhile, keep up the good work.

I've emailed my marina/yard in Greece and so has Alenka. The more we as individuals apply pressure wherever we can the better, although the Cruising Association is bound to have a little more clout since it's a representative body.

And for those who doubt its influence, ask yourself why so many marinas in the Med offer a CA discount.

beneteau-500 11-12-2013 02:40

re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS
 
My interpretation of this 30% discount from what i can gather from the people i spoke to in Athens last week is purely aimed at the commercial operators and not the private boats
the CA can translate all they want but the Greeks will have there own translation and thats what will apply even if it is different from one Govt department to another and i have found that out with my property tax last week

K_V_B 11-12-2013 03:46

re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by athene (Post 1410729)
I don't know of any other country in the Med (unless someone out there knows different?) that tries to extract over a thousand Euros from even moderately-sized visiting yachts -

I personally find the idea that a >12m yacht is "moderately sized" rather odd.

athene 11-12-2013 03:57

re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by K_V_B (Post 1412172)
I personally find the idea that a >12m yacht is "moderately sized" rather odd.

Take a look at the three yards in Preveza. That's the average size of yacht among the 2,000 odd you'll find laid up.

Barra 11-12-2013 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by athene (Post 1412176)

Take a look at the three yards in Preveza. That's the average size of yacht among the 2,000 odd you'll find laid up.

2000 odd moving to 500 odd next year. Enough for one yard only. Sensible outcome to preserve businesses and jobs like these ones is to not apply this tax to boats when laid up. Legislation isnt clear but if its open to local interpretation you can bet preveza port police will be under plenty of pressure!

athene 12-12-2013 03:04

re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barra (Post 1412731)
2000 odd moving to 500 odd next year. Enough for one yard only. Sensible outcome to preserve businesses and jobs like these ones is to not apply this tax to boats when laid up. Legislation isnt clear but if its open to local interpretation you can bet preveza port police will be under plenty of pressure!

I believe clarification on this point, whether 'sailing, moored or anchored' in Greek waters includes sitting on the hard, is something the Cruising Association are seeking.

I agree with your point about possible empty spaces, which is something I have expressed to Cleopatra Marina, our own yard. While recognising that it's not a problem of their own making, they are in a better position to keep pressuring the government for concessions than we are.

This tax may be helping to replenish the Greek government coffers, but it'll be at the expense of businesses like Cleopatra and the hundreds of tavernas and other businesses that depend heavily on cruisers.

hoppy 12-12-2013 12:52

re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barra (Post 1412731)
2000 odd moving to 500 odd next year. Enough for one yard only.

Not a chance....

Based on what I've heard from various posters here and elsewhere, the new taxes will make Greece less competitive against places like Turkey & Croatia but it won't necessarily make it economically unviable for people who need a marina or a boat yard to keep their yachts 10-11 months of the year.

If I recall, the yards in Preveza were quoting just under 2000 for my 12.2m and I would imagine a 11.9m would be very similar. 2400 is not going to break the bank.

If I leave, it will be more out of "protest" about the price hike for 12m+ and anyway I had 100% already decided to leave Corfu/Ionian and Croatia/Turkey were already on my option list.

The boat yards will hurt and will only go under if they are already going close to the edge.

The marinas will suffer much more than the yards as they will miss out on the big money short stays if the Italians stay home.

Barra 12-12-2013 17:50

2400 for under 12m may not break the bank but going from 2000 to 3300 for a 12.1m boat is enough of a whack to send plenty of haul out customers elsewhere i have no doubt. If they cruise for say 2 months and haul out for the rest which is pretty common they are beung forced to pay 650 a month in cruising taxes. Anywhere else is so much cheaper there will be a mass exodus of these types of boats.

goboatingnow 12-12-2013 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barra (Post 1413434)
2400 for under 12m may not break the bank but going from 2000 to 3300 for a 12.1m boat is enough of a whack to send plenty of haul out customers elsewhere i have no doubt. If they cruise for say 2 months and haul out for the rest which is pretty common they are beung forced to pay 650 a month in cruising taxes. Anywhere else is so much cheaper there will be a mass exodus of these types of boats.

If they cruise and haul out , they will pay the annual tax surely

Dave

Barra 12-12-2013 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1413439)

If they cruise and haul out , they will pay the annual tax surely

Dave

Whos to say a foreign registered boat can prove to the greek authorities satisfaction they are "permanent" and thus qualify for the discount?

goboatingnow 12-12-2013 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barra (Post 1413453)

Whos to say a foreign registered boat can prove to the greek authorities satisfaction they are "permanent" and thus qualify for the discount?

Well all that will clarify out when the time comes to pay next year. I personally believe visiting yachts will ultimately be exempted

Dave

Chris Robb 13-12-2013 02:29

re: Greek Tax! - MERGED 4 THREADS
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barra (Post 1413453)
Whos to say a foreign registered boat can prove to the greek authorities satisfaction they are "permanent" and thus qualify for the discount?

You won't have to prove that you are there for 12 months. You will just have to pay it ALL IN ADVANCE to get it. Will they care that you are not there - they got the money and thats all they will care about.

So if I want to take advantage of the 30% discount - how do I do it? I cannot, it has to be done (according to the electronic payments bit) by the end of this month (December 2013) to qualify. So many of us will end up paying full whack this year as we cannot pay in advance.

So I hope there are arrangements made for the first year to allow for this.

goboatingnow 13-12-2013 02:38

There's a lot of bellyaching over this tax , especially given the fact that many can avoid it. Furthermore if you got " caught" cause you are overwintering , you do realise you are in Greece don't you.


Dave


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