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-   -   Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f74/affordable-care-act-catastrophic-plans-cancelled-114645.html)

letsgetsailing3 08-11-2013 14:51

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodles (Post 1386126)
That seems contradictory. You say that people have "limited sources of information" and that there is "so much information available." How can it be both?

I'm not a conspiracy person, so I tend to believe the information is there it is just complicated and difficult to dig out sometime much like income taxes (something I know a lot about). Tax information is out there for everyone to read and research, but you do have to spend the time, educate yourself, etc. This require a lot of effort and most people aren't willing to do it.

No conspiracy, just life is complicated today.

I'm not a conspiracy person, either, but it's not difficult to understand why a company who already has your business might want to keep your ability to change to another provider, or access to cost information that might help you choose another provider limited.

Although there is a great deal of information about health care available, not much of it is geared towards helping consumers save money on health care. It is in the industry's favor that you not be given too much choice.

If you could go see a doctor nearby for a reasonable rate, and he had a good reputation for quality, wouldn't you do this? So why can't you? It's complicated by our system. There isn't an easy way to figure out what health care should cost. It isn't in the health care entity's interest to help you out with this.

Andrew B. 08-11-2013 14:54

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1385302)
Yes the statements are in direct contrast, and that is the dilemma that every developed country finds itself in. There isn't a European country for example that doesn't agonise over the health budget or the cost of its hospital/medical system.



Yes almost uniquely , the US seems have made a terrible mess of healthcare, with very high costs and only reasonable outcomes. Its what happens when you allow "free enterprise" feast on a fact that people "must" have healthcare, they cannot really "shop" around or do without.

Inherently you must control the process , with only the patients in mind, once you start high rewards, high profits the system feeds on its patients constantly squeezing more and more from them, in a situation where they have little choice.

dave

And your intelligent enough to know we truly haven't ever had much, if any real "free enterprise" here in the US, or anywhere else for that matter. Weed out the corruption, control the lobbyist, finish what Regan started with deregulation, and insist on the US constitution truly being adhered to , and real competition would drive cost down, while driving quality up of everything, including heath care.

Of course if one is of the entitlement class, and are convinced that your BIG government is your friend, then I suppose the idea of individual responsibility, and liberty might not be appealing. YMMV

Pure Capitalism is the only solution that will solve these problems.
Unfortunately we have never seen it, nor is it likely we ever will. And that truly is a shame.

Socialism has never worked, never will. Quit beating that dead horse, please !

Exerting power and control through conspiratorial deceit isn't truly about helping anyone. It ultimately makes victims of all but the famous %1.

"once you start high rewards, high profits the system feeds....."

Oh now I understand. I will get my loans from the Leg breakers co.& loan sharks, inc., bookies, and ex-wives from now on...Thanks
I Might be a little light on the charitable donations though( %300 interest + vig, not 2.93%), but I suppose re-distribution takes care of those homeless vets, etc... I shall sleep better tonight...Thanks...https://www.cruisersforum.com/images/.../whistling.gif

Don't worry, be happy. Uncle Sam is getting rid of trans-fat. All Americans are now going to live healthy lives forever...

Don't to forget to drink YOUR kool-aid...

Doodles 09-11-2013 03:42

Sorry Andrew B. but Reagan's voodoo economic didn't work before and won't now. The "trickle" only seems to go up not down. :-(

gonesail 09-11-2013 03:59

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodles (Post 1386447)
but Reagan's voodoo economic didn't work before and won't now

you are entitled to your opinion but as a voter i don't believe you are entitled to what has been visited upon us for the last 5 or 6 years. reagan's solution worked much better than the affordable care solution we have now :thumb:

Boatguy30 09-11-2013 05:19

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
The thing you fail to mention in your yearning for good ole' Ronnie is that the people that had factory jobs making $15-20/ hour in the 80s are now working at Walmart or mowing lawns for $8 an hour.

If they're lucky they've joined the entitlement class and are early retired on social security disability.

Maybe if we didn't have entitlements these people would magically create better jobs for themselves, but it's hard to see. Fortunately due to gods, guns and abortion republicans can still count on their votes.

We have a simple problem in America, people (most people) don't get paid enough.

I also find it funny how all these "Cuban" American senators are such free market crazies. They had unregulated capitalism in Cuba before Castro and their families all left because it sucked. (Rubio and Cruz)

Cotemar 09-11-2013 06:00

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
Here is a web site to get the info and prices that Heathcare.gov is having so much trouble posting.

www.thehealthsherpa.com

https://gizmodo.com/these-guys-just-built-the-website-healthcare-gov-should-1458215436

pbiJim 09-11-2013 06:18

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boatguy30 (Post 1386475)
I also find it funny how all these "Cuban" American senators are such free market crazies. They had unregulated capitalism in Cuba before Castro and their families all left because it sucked. (Rubio and Cruz)

Are you saying that most of the people who left Cuba, did so before Castro took over?

Group9 09-11-2013 06:21

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boatguy30 (Post 1386475)
I also find it funny how all these "Cuban" American senators are such free market crazies. They had unregulated capitalism in Cuba before Castro and their families all left because it sucked. (Rubio and Cruz)

Where did you take history?

letsgetsailing3 09-11-2013 06:23

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotemar (Post 1386486)
Here is a web site to get the info and prices that Heathcare.gov is having so much trouble posting.

www.thehealthsherpa.com

https://gizmodo.com/these-guys-just-built-the-website-healthcare-gov-should-1458215436


I knew it couldn't be all that difficult to do. It's a lot harder, apparently, if you pay people millions to PRETEND to give you the information.

Lake-Effect 09-11-2013 06:23

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew B. (Post 1386146)
Of course if one is of the entitlement class, and are convinced that your BIG government is your friend, then I suppose the idea of individual responsibility, and liberty might not be appealing. YMMV

Pure Capitalism is the only solution that will solve these problems.
Unfortunately we have never seen it, nor is it likely we ever will. And that truly is a shame.

Socialism has never worked, never will. Quit beating that dead horse, please !

-barf-

Hey, I thought we weren't supposed to engage in spewing religious dogma here.

Andrew - name ONE country that has successfully solved the healthcare puzzle (universal coverage, quality, reasonable cost) through application of "pure capitalism".

letsgetsailing3 09-11-2013 06:27

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect (Post 1386501)
-barf-

Hey, I thought we weren't supposed to engage in spewing religious dogma here.

Andrew - name ONE country that has successfully solved the healthcare puzzle (universal coverage, reasonable cost) through application of "pure capitalism".

We didn't hear you complaining about the posts that were pure socialism.

Universal coverage, of course, is a socialist principle. So by it's very definition, no "pure" capitalistic system will provide that. In other words, you will have to make some adjustments to get universal coverage. That can be done, however.

Much like providing a purely socialist model won't give you both quality of service and low prices without adjustment.

Boatguy30 09-11-2013 06:38

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pbiJim (Post 1386494)
Are you saying that most of the people who left Cuba, did so before Castro took over?

Same place Rubio did I guess. This is getting off topic, but they fled Batista's un regulated and very corrupt capitalism. I know he told voters a different story and now says "I'm really not sure, I guess I never asked my parents"

Lake-Effect 09-11-2013 06:44

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 (Post 1386504)
Universal coverage, of course, is a socialist principle.

"All men are created equal" is a socialist principle. One man, one vote is a socialist principle. "Life, liberty and the purfuit of happineff" is a socialist principle. These were radical and progressive thoughts 250 years ago. All of these require a strong state to establish and maintain them, otherwise in a "pure capitalist" system the strong eat the weak, and only the powerful have "rights". Socialism - you're soaking in it.

Also- universal, single payer healthcare gives you a healthier and more mobile workforce, and at lower delivered cost. Let me repeat that part - universal single payer healthcare costs less.

"Pure socialism"? If you care to examine the healthcare industry of most countries with universal coverage, you will find many businesses competing to provide healthcare services within a universal coverage system, and generating profit. Capitalism!

You can't solve real problems with Andrew's mythical dogma.

Boatguy30 09-11-2013 06:46

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
To have free market health care you have to get rid of VA, Medicare and Medicaid. I have the resources and good health to be OK with that, but I bet most won't.

If we didn't have this government intrusion in the health care system, the medical industrial complex would not have developed over the last 50 years. Doctors would earn a decent upper middle class wage and "non profit" hospital CEO would not make millions.

But good luck cutting all those lunches now. The private system has been able to hang on and make money by denying coverage to the really sick and keep cost relatively low.

The main problem with ACA is, it basically guarantees status quo profits for the medical industrial complex while adding a whole bunch of costs due to having to cover anyone and no longer being able to "free market" ration these people.

The only way to make it affordable and cover everyone would be to dramatically shrink the size of the industrial complex. But I keep hearing about all the great growth opportunities as a worker in the medical field.

So basically the whole thing is totally screwed for the foreseeable future.

Lake-Effect 09-11-2013 07:03

Re: Affordable Care Act - catastrophic plans cancelled
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boatguy30 (Post 1386524)
The main problem with ACA is, it basically guarantees status quo profits for the medical industrial complex while adding a whole bunch of costs due to having to cover anyone and no longer being able to "free market" ration these people.

The only way to make it affordable and cover everyone would be to dramatically shrink the size of the industrial complex. But I keep hearing about all the great growth opportunities as a worker in the medical field.

So basically the whole thing is totally screwed for the foreseeable future.

ACA is a weak step, but a step. And if the parties can -gasp- work together, it can be amended as required. Hopefully unscrewing the future.


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