Cruisers & Sailing Forums (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/)
-   General Sailing Forum (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/)
-   -   Transit Time? NY-FL (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/transit-time-ny-fl-111080.html)

scoobert 21-09-2013 16:12

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Coops (Post 1345848)
Sometimes, one can only say, "ah well." Good luck.

Coops.


indeed. I will be doing the trip regardless, thou i appreciate the words of warning.

Matt Johnson 21-09-2013 16:13

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Can't believe that most here are concerned with the shift schedule on this proposed trip! He will figure this one out himself on day two and make the changes necessary.

I would suggest you do Sandy Hook to Cape May and see how its working out for you. This will give you a pretty good shakedown, you can fix things there, and Cape May is a good stop anyway. Personally, I think you'll end-up just doing the ICW and jumping out for over-nights where advisable like most husband/wife crews.

By the way, We also didnt find warmth until Florida last year.

scoobert 21-09-2013 16:17

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by funjohnson (Post 1345853)
I would suggest you do Sandy Hook to Cape May and see how its working out for you. This will give you a pretty good shakedown, you can fix things there, and Cape May is a good stop anyway. Personally, I think you'll end-up just doing the ICW and jumping out for over-nights where advisable like most husband/wife crews.

By the way, We also didnt find warmth until Florida last year.


this is a good tip. 24-30 hours of sailing in open waters will give a good answer.

Paul Elliott 21-09-2013 17:46

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1345857)
this is a good tip. 24-30 hours of sailing in open waters will give a good answer.

Good tip yes. But as I'm sure you know, you can do lots of things for 24-30 hour that you couldn't do for longer than that. There are plenty of times I've driven my car for 18-24 hours straight (other than fuel stops). There's no way I could keep to that schedule for two days, let alone a week.

In long-distance sailing, one of the first things you learn is to get some sleep when you are off-watch. This is with reasonable 4-on, 8-off, or 4/4 or any number of working schedules. Adrenaline can get you through 24 hours, but you pay a huge price later, and that does nobody any good.

Do you think these watch schedules for long-distance sailors were developed so they could keep up with their beauty sleep? These schedules are as they are because you can only be on watch for so long without sleep and still be safe and effective.

Please read up on the research. Here's one report I grabbed a random: (long link). It contains some interesting graphs showing the effectiveness of a crewmember over a few days:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...1&d=1379810622
Note the work/sleep intervals, and the diminishing effectiveness (measured impairment as equivalent Blood Alcohol level).

I'm not making this up!

boatman61 21-09-2013 18:03

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
If you insist on the 16hrs on... it can be done...
I've done it for 2500+ miles steering by hand from Bermuda to the Azores and from there to the UK... however... I hove to at 8pm.. ate, slept ate then steered from 8am to 8pm again for a total of 48 days...
I suggest you get your wife to keep the lookout from mid day to 8pm then you get up and do the watch till mid day... she cooks in the off watch period..
That way she has a semblance of normality and you do the suffering...:D

scoobert 21-09-2013 18:05

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1345935)
If you insist on the 16hrs on... it can be done...
I've done it for 2500+ miles steering by hand from Bermuda to the Azores and from there to the UK... however... I hove to at 8pm.. ate, slept ate then steered from 8am to 8pm again for a total of 48 days...
I suggest you get your wife to keep the lookout from mid day to 8pm then you get up and do the watch till mid day... she cooks in the off watch period..
That way she has a semblance of normality and you do the suffering...:D


wife is an evening person. she would do the 1800-0200.

Whaubner 21-09-2013 18:09

Sounds like a hard row to ho.

scoobert 21-09-2013 18:13

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
by MD we will have it sorted out.
or if we go to Bermuda i can set the radar and AIS alerts, and we can both sleep a bit now and then.

boatman61 21-09-2013 18:16

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1345937)
wife is an evening person. she would do the 1800-0200.

Buy her a set of 'Flash Cards' that give to various lights of ships fishing vessels etc so she can identify at a glance and does not have to keep waking you for confirmation... also some training in VHF and go out and practice Man Overboard a few times till you both have it down pat..
On the spot training sucks... for whoever is in the water..:D
Harnesses have been known to be inadequate,,

scoobert 21-09-2013 18:18

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1345943)
Buy her a set of 'Flash Cards' that give to various lights of ships fishing vessels etc so she can identify at a glance and does not have to keep waking you for confirmation... also some training in VHF and go out and practice Man Overboard a few times till you both have it down pat..
On the spot training sucks... for whoever is in the water..:D


we will be doing man overboard training in the next 3 weeks.
she can add the lighting flash cards to her knot flash cards :P
we also have a distress call card down below.

Paul Elliott 21-09-2013 18:23

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
For what it's worth, I don't trust radar alarms all that much. They work great in flat water, but if the seas are up you have to tweak the sensitivity/etc down so far that you will miss the small boats. AIS alarms are great for ships, but obviously not all boats carry AIS transponders.

Just set up a reasonable watch schedule. You can do this with two on board. It's just that 16 on / 8 off isn't a reasonable schedule. Use the alarms too. Make sure that you have the batteries / power to run the radar for extended periods.

scoobert 21-09-2013 18:28

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott (Post 1345949)
For what it's worth, I don't trust radar alarms all that much. They work great in flat water, but if the seas are up you have to tweak the sensitivity/etc down so far that you will miss the small boats. AIS alarms are great for ships, but obviously not all boats carry AIS transponders.

Just set up a reasonable watch schedule. You can do this with two on board. It's just that 16 on / 8 off isn't a reasonable schedule. Use the alarms too. Make sure that you have the batteries / power to run the radar for extended periods.


i am working on testing the power.
found i have two bad batteries, not one. one battery had dropped a volt in about 30 min of running solo with every conceivable DC powered item running. so now i need two batteries. guess we can try short watches. 8 on 8 off, or anything else.

Stu Jackson 21-09-2013 18:38

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1345953)
i am working on testing the power.
found i have two bad batteries, not one. one battery had dropped a volt in about 30 min of running solo with every conceivable DC powered item running. so now i need two batteries. guess we can try short watches. 8 on 8 off, or anything else.

What's your energy budget and storage capacity?

scoobert 21-09-2013 18:46

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson (Post 1345962)
What's your energy budget and storage capacity?


total AH in house bank will be 600 at 12 volts.
fridge will be an apartment size unit, no idea on the power usage yet.
but i am figuring on 60ah,
autopilot, 80 ah
lighting, 12ah
gps, radar, ect, 40ah
engine will need started twice a day to make a nice life for the batteries,
unless i get the Genny going before then.

sardinebreath 21-09-2013 19:30

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Reading through these posts I have been convinced at several points that this is all just an elaborate leg pulling. But I'm not sure. If not, my guess is, best case scenario, you throw in the towel at some point and turn around. Best case. But I dearly hope that I am wrong and that I look like an idiot when you report that it was a challenging but enjoyable trip. I will welcome looking like an idiot in that case. If you actually do set out, I wish you all the luck in the world.

scoobert 22-09-2013 04:55

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sardinebreath (Post 1345995)
Reading through these posts I have been convinced at several points that this is all just an elaborate leg pulling. But I'm not sure. If not, my guess is, best case scenario, you throw in the towel at some point and turn around. Best case. But I dearly hope that I am wrong and that I look like an idiot when you report that it was a challenging but enjoyable trip. I will welcome looking like an idiot in that case. If you actually do set out, I wish you all the luck in the world.


elaborate enough to maintain a blog, and then post videos on youtube?

anyway, we are in a 48' bluewater cruiser. short of ignoring the weather completely, running aground, hoisting the spinn in heavy winds, or trying to open a thruhull with a 10# sledge, we will be fine. we have a 6 man offshore life raft too.
now if we were in a 32' catalina, with rope for halyards i would worry.

The Garbone 22-09-2013 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1345967)

total AH in house bank will be 600 at 12 volts.
fridge will be an apartment size unit, no idea on the power usage yet.
but i am figuring on 60ah,
autopilot, 80 ah
lighting, 12ah
gps, radar, ect, 40ah
engine will need started twice a day to make a nice life for the batteries,
unless i get the Genny going before then.

Ehhh, if your batts are all the same age or close to it I would go ahead and replace them all at the same time. I did the replace the single bad cell trick and 4 months later the next one started to go.

scoobert 22-09-2013 06:56

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Garbone (Post 1346253)
Ehhh, if your batts are all the same age or close to it I would go ahead and replace them all at the same time. I did the replace the single bad cell trick and 4 months later the next one started to go.


well my thinking is, i will keep the one good 4D for the main engine starting battery. then build a new bank under the settee. i can fit 6, 6v, 225ah, batteries, just in there. that is the plan. that is also just in the cut out area. in reality, i have space on my yacht for about 60 batteries.

Vasco 22-09-2013 07:50

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1346259)
well my thinking is, i will keep the one good 4D for the main engine starting battery. then build a new bank under the settee. i can fit 6, 6v, 225ah, batteries, just in there. that is the plan. that is also just in the cut out area. in reality, i have space on my yacht for about 60 batteries.

Freeboard?

scoobert 22-09-2013 08:07

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasco (Post 1346317)
Freeboard?


not really an issue, fully laden with fuel, water and a full black tank, i still had over 8" to the top of my bottom paint.
Fouled bottom on sailboat effect - YouTube

boatman61 22-09-2013 08:19

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasco (Post 1346317)
Freeboard?

No... he wants $40/day for food and expenses...:whistling:

scoobert 22-09-2013 08:35

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1346360)
No... he wants $40/day for food and expenses...:whistling:


i hope to be under $400 a month for food and expenses..... not $40 a day.

boatman61 22-09-2013 08:48

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1346388)
i hope to be under $400 a month for food and expenses..... not $40 a day.

That was supposed to be a witticism to Vasco's 'Freeboard'...
"No its not free... $40/day for food and board..."
Ahhh... fergit it... if ya gotta explain it aint funny...:banghead:

Exile 22-09-2013 08:55

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
I'm with SardineBreath & Snore's deleted post on this one, I'm afraid to say. The boat & the blog may exist, but leaving the dock & all that goes with that appears to be fantasy or maybe delusional. Too bad since a lot of time invested by knowledgable & experienced boaters trying to help.

IMHO, of course, and FWIW . . . .

Vasco 22-09-2013 09:17

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Exile (Post 1346431)
I'm with SardineBreath & Snore's deleted post on this one, I'm afraid to say. The boat & the blog may exist, but leaving the dock & all that goes with that appears to be fantasy or maybe delusional. Too bad since a lot of time invested by knowledgable & experienced boaters trying to help.

IMHO, of course, and FWIW . . . .

You can take a horse to water.........

scoobert 22-09-2013 09:18

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vasco (Post 1346453)
You can take a horse to water.........

It will be easier to lead the horse.... they are heavy beasts.

The Garbone 22-09-2013 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1345545)
so. let me see if i have this worked out.

winds will blow north in November.

so what if i stop in Bermuda for a week on the way down?

i would be on a port tack, and be able to make great time to bermuda, 6 days or so, then head down to the keys from there. making transit time to the keys 12-16 days. then another 3-5 days up to tampa.

did i miss anything?

That is really ambitious.

As a fellow beginner in this let me tell you about my longest trip. We took 2 weeks and travelled north, in the ditch with a hop outside. Our furthest point was about 150nm actual, 131nm as the crow flies. We loved the trip and were hesitant to go home so we departed with basically 3 days to do the 150nm.

The first 2 ten hour days were fine as the wind was against us and not wanting to overnight offshore we stayed inside on the motor. On the third and final day the wind shifted and picked up and we were able to run at hull speed on the jib only. Great sailing and we only used the motor to pull into the slip. I remember pulling into our slip on that last day and going below to crash on my rack exhausted, sleeping with my hands sticking up like Han Solo in carbinite. We made great time but in the heavier wind the wife did not want to take the helm. This was in the ditch with a stiff 20knt wind and a bit of chop.

My suggestion is not to do passages that would obligate you to multiple days of taking a beating at the helm. It can be done but it will extract a toll.

sailr69 22-09-2013 09:56

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
speaking of cape hatteras , I remember back when I was on the USS Intrepid, you could easily tell when you were off the cape by the seasick sailors. that was an aircraft carrier! the whole navy knows the cape.

Vasco 22-09-2013 14:46

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy M (Post 1346762)
Thanks guys! I thought I was the only one to get erased off this thread for making a comment of the nature I did, which was not very nice on my part. But the moderator helped me see the error of my way and kindly redirected me to a higher path.

Sometimes it's difficult to take the high road. Especially with threads like this but it is entertaining and, if Darwin got it right, this won't last much longer.

hellosailor 22-09-2013 14:47

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
scoobert, really?
"16 on 4 off is a program for the B-2 bomber crew. "
Except that's mission-critical combat, life and death, and in combat you throw the safety margins out the window as needed. The bathroom on a B24 was a coffee can stowed under the seat, and the B52 crews used to carry a folding lounge chair because it helped their supposed maximum 52-hour in-air endurance.
And no one on a B-2 gets thrown around for two days and nights, literally thrown, by rough seas, while trying to physically manhandle sails and the helm.
Oh, btw, the coffee can has been replaced by the relief tube in combat aircraft, and diapers for astronauts on EVA.

Recreational sailing ain't combat sorties. We don't take routine fatalities as being normal or acceptable. Bluntly, If you do, expect your wife to leave you, assuming she survives the trip.

scoobert 22-09-2013 14:53

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor (Post 1346788)
Bluntly, If you do, expect your wife to leave you, assuming she survives the trip.


i have explained the situation to her. i told her she has the say of stay out or stay in. i explained that we could get into 15' crashing seas. she wants to try staying out, and if it is too bad we will go in. of course when we bought the boat i explained how we may be rolled in the Tasman sea in 35' breaking waves....
we are not in the south pacific here, we are within towboatUS range of shore. frankly i think some of you are far too worried about coastal navigation. i mean i am not sailing into the Caribbean going to Africa in August.

Roy M 22-09-2013 14:58

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Oh, this is just too provocative! Where did I hide that Prozac?

Snore 22-09-2013 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1346795)
frankly i think some of you are far too worried about coastal navigation. i mean i am not sailing into the Caribbean going to Africa in August.


Based in that opinion there is no need for any further posts....

hellosailor 22-09-2013 15:05

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
"if it is too bad we will go in."
See, that's what you don't seem to get.
You CANNOT SIMPLY GO IN.

There will be combinations of weather, equipment breakdowns, dangerous inlets, and distances that add up so that you may need 48 hours in order to make the next safe landfall. If you want to "go in" you can expect that it will take you 24 hours or longer in order to make landfall, often longer than that. Even if you are "nearshore".

There's no autopilot, like the B2. And no rest stops or shoulder to pull onto, like the truck. And meanwhile the ocean may be kicking you around like a mule while it is pelting you with rain that literally hurts your eyes. While this is happening, you can expect a total failure of all electrical systems, because even the best marine electronics tend to do that at the worst possible moment. And that's when the diesel will crap out (you have had the fuel tanks cleaned and the fuel polished, right?) and one of the sails jam. Now, if only one of you knows how to sail the boat and the other has to go below or on the foredeck to try fixing something...that's when life gets interesting.

Stu Jackson 22-09-2013 15:05

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1346795)

...we are within towboatUS range of shore...

Most likely a foolish approach to safe passages.

scoobert 22-09-2013 15:07

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor (Post 1346807)
"if it is too bad we will go in."
See, that's what you don't seem to get.
You CANNOT SIMPLY GO IN.

There will be combinations of weather, equipment breakdowns, dangerous inlets, and distances that add up so that you may need 48 hours in order to make the next safe landfall. If you want to "go in" you can expect that it will take you 24 hours or longer in order to make landfall, often longer than that. Even if you are "nearshore".

There's no autopilot, like the B2. And no rest stops or shoulder to pull onto, like the truck. And meanwhile the ocean may be kicking you around like a mule while it is pelting you with rain that literally hurts your eyes. While this is happening, you can expect a total failure of all electrical systems, because even the best marine electronics tend to do that at the worst possible moment. And that's when the diesel will crap out (you have had the fuel tanks cleaned and the fuel polished, right?) and one of the sails jam. Now, if only one of you knows how to sail the boat and the other has to go below or on the foredeck to try fixing something...that's when life gets interesting.


the engine is solid, and the fuel has been addressed. worst scenario we drop the sails, close the hatch, and we motor in. the boat can be piloted from below.

scoobert 22-09-2013 15:08

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snore (Post 1346804)
Based in that opinion there is no need for any further posts....

then why post?

WebWench 22-09-2013 15:11

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Scoobert, are you considering that the people that are trying to tell you just how dangerous it can be, may have actually been out there and experienced it?

I know that you have done a lot of reading about the issues and possibilities....have you also followed the loss of several ships lately....many with very experienced long term cruisers on board?

Do you have backup plans if your engine quits, your batteries go dead, of if you were to get hurt climbing on the deck to change out a jib? How much experience does your wife have in handling the boat if you were disabled? This is why, even experienced cruisers take extra crew along, when the go outside the ICW or to Bermuda.
None of us doubt that you have the drive and intelligence to be a good sailer but all of us have found that it is all the little things that we have learned with practice and experience that have taught us to be good and safe sailors.

I am hoping you can find the time to get some sailing practice in various conditions, before on embark on your voyage. Safety is often not about how big your boat is but by how much experience and practice you have had in handling emergencies.

scoobert 22-09-2013 15:20

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WebWench (Post 1346819)
Scoobert, are you considering that the people that are trying to tell you just how dangerous it can be, may have actually been out there and experienced it?

I know that you have done a lot of reading about the issues and possibilities....have you also followed the loss of several ships lately....many with very experienced long term cruisers on board?

Do you have backup plans if your engine quits, your batteries go dead, of if you were to get hurt climbing on the deck to change out a jib? How much experience does your wife have in handling the boat if you were disabled? This is why, even experienced cruisers take extra crew along, when the go outside the ICW or to Bermuda.
None of us doubt that you have the drive and intelligence to be a good sailer but all of us have found that it is all the little things that we have learned with practice and experience that have taught us to be good and safe sailors.

I am hoping you can find the time to get some sailing practice in various conditions, before on embark on your voyage. Safety is often not about how big your boat is but by how much experience and practice you have had in handling emergencies.


day 1-3 will be training the wife to handle the boat.
at the end she may not be able to dock it, but she will be able to do a figure 8, tie knots, lift my fat butt from the water, lower the sails, start the engine, deploy the liferaft, call for help, and she will know where all the thruhulls are, and how to get the plug in them/close the valve. by the end of week 1 she will be able to sail. her intelligence is slightly above normal, and is a quick hands on learner. thats why i cannot give her a book on it, she will learn more the first week, then she would with 10 books on theory.

scoobert 22-09-2013 15:50

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Snore (Post 1346862)
Your response to those honest and sincere posts was to dismiss a combined ten of thousands of miles of experience that urges caution as ---- alarmist.

i am cautious about the trip.
i am not taking the trip as a run up the Mohawk/erie canal.

its the ocean, and not to be taken lightly, i get that.
but anything past caution is dribble, and ... alarmist.
i enjoy risk, challenge, and excitement.
and when completed, i will be wiser for the trip.
i asked transit time, not "please tell me i am stupid for wanting to sail south in November in the ocean, with my 7 sea yacht"


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:54.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.