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ohdrinkboy 10-09-2013 09:14

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Develop an offshore and a inshore plan and be prepared to switch based on weather and crew.

NSboatman 10-09-2013 09:37

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
do you really think we will take hard hits in a 48' 15ton yacht?
at least i can't sink it. unless i do something very very dumb, like run with the hatches open :P[/QUOTE]


Did you follow any of the bounty experience last year? She was a lot bigger than your boat. granted, they sailed into the face of a bad storm, but at no time were they actually in extreme weather. they got what you'd expect off of hatteras in a good blow. Large ships (many thousands of tons) avoid this area in bad weather.

A 48' 15 ton yacht is a pipsqueak in the face of even a 10' breaking wave, let alone a 15 or 20 or 25' wave, all of which are quite common in less-than-extreme weather in those areas.

Do I really think you will take hard hits? If you get off any one of those capes - even far off them - in anything more than 20 knots - then Hell yeah, you're going to take some hard hits. a lot of them.

It's rarely the boat that gives up first - it's almost always the crew who get injured, scared, exhausted or otherwise done with the scene and call the coasties in, at great risk to all. Don't do it until you've got more experience, more experienced crew, and a rational plan. period.

Is this how you plan your flights?

carstenb 10-09-2013 09:49

Re: Transit time? NY-Fl
 
Pills? better start taking them 3 days before you leave or they are worthless. hard knocks in a 15 ton sailboat?
ROTFLMFAO

on a trip like that, I and all my crew would be tethered 100% of the time. you can end not evenbeing able to make coffee.

oh - you can sink the boat - even without leaving the hatches open. just wait for a 360 or two.

your idea is really silly. hell, I wouldn't go on a trip like that. I know what I am doing and would certainly survive, but I have no interest in being that uncomfortable for so long.

NY to Miami is what? 1500-2000nm? at 3-3.5 knots, thats 600 hours or something like 25 days? got enough water for that? food? think you (and wife) can survive on 1 hour of sleep at a time for weeks?

Both my wife and I are pretty fit and we were beat after that 27 hour run. just run down and we were beginning to make silly mistakes just due to fatigue and cold. our attention spans had diminished.





Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335969)
your quite right, i am getting enough warning that i can plan well for it at least.
i am sure i will have some pills for the wife. she has been in rough seas before.
we took my tiny powerboat to NYC last year. she got very bruised at we slammed into whitecap waves at 40mph, outdrive leaving the water, spray everywhere.
she is a trooper, besides having more bruises from her then the boat ride, she was fine.

do you really think we will take hard hits in a 48' 15ton yacht?
at least i can't sink it. unless i do something very very dumb, like run with the hatches open :P


Scott Berg 10-09-2013 10:06

Ok

I've re-read all the posts... Don't go.

Period.

You can take the ditch if you watch your depths and tides and take the odd jump outside weather permitting

I wouldn't do the trip you're planning in my boat (45 ton 60' ketch) and I have 40 years of experience.

Just don't do it!

SB

The Garbone 10-09-2013 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335594)
well we have a racing boat, so during my watch (16 hours) we will be in top form, but before the wifes watch i will switch to the 64% genoa and throw in a reef. then if she gets into trouble, it takes a while.

Do you really plan on changing out your foresail every watch, that would get old pretty quick.

It may be wise to take the wife outside on a few short jaunts and get her familiar with handling the boat before the trip.

You have taken her outside before? My tub is a lot smaller and not as sea kindly as yours and I was surprised how quickly my wife (who is a trooper most of the time) got unwell once we were outside and rolling about.

Best of luck,

olepedersen 10-09-2013 10:36

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
You will be sorry,only 2 persons in high traffic area wont work I have done deliveries up and down the eastcoast since the seventies in November you will hit a blow,you will be tired,hungry,cold, scared etc. anyway go sandy hook to norfolk and see how few inlets are good from there south oh dont forget you will only come in when the sun shines RIGHT
good luck Ole

annsni 10-09-2013 10:53

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335594)
well we have a racing boat, so during my watch (16 hours) we will be in top form, but before the wifes watch i will switch to the 64% genoa and throw in a reef. then if she gets into trouble, it takes a while.

How will you be in "top form" when in March, you didn't know how to sail?

Don1500 10-09-2013 12:00

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Just as the tip of the Lady in the Harbor's flame is disappearing over the horizon you will hear: "Are we there yet?" and that will be the start if a pretty miserable 30 days.

I am into day 10 of an expected 7 days to Daytona from Myrtle Beach. A broken wire that killed the engine at 10PM on a dark night in the middle of a cramped channel, a blocked toilet, and a day in the ocean at 98 with no wind, have made this a memorable trip, so far.

The good days won't stop you, but there will be bad days, and broken things. When you have your head down in the toilet trying to flush out a clogged line AND your in the same 10 ft seas you have been in for 5 days, the beauty of the sea fades.

Vasco 10-09-2013 12:19

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335982)
yes, i have been on the great loop website. its pretty sparse on the ICW from FL to NY.
i did learn on that site i cannot complete a loop on my boat, due to draft.
kind of a bummer.
i think the ICW has a channel of very deep draft? i thought it was used by huge ships?
i will have to reread the part about the canal down south thou. not sure if i can make that area.
regardless, i will sail as much as i can comfortably and safely.


You might want to rethink this trip or, at the least, take an experienced person with you.

Don1500 10-09-2013 12:30

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
"I think the ICW has a channel of very deep draft?" ROTFLMAO!

Near Swansboro, NC, Came across a tug with a barge, hard aground, waiting for the tide, I read 7' just in front of the barge. Outside the entrance to Jerret Creek (McCullenville, SC) I passed by with less than 1"(inch) under my 5.5' keel in the center of the ICW. The whole stretch from McCullenville to Isle Of Palms is dicey at low tide. 5.5ft is less than 1/2 the 12' the Corpse of Engineers claims, but at low tide you will see less than that in many places. (All of the places I mentioned were in well traveled parts of the ICW and do not have any current plans to be dredged.) I generally go outside from Savannah to Fernandina just to avoid the shoaling in Georgia. Yesterday I came in to Jekyll Island from the north and Had less than zero feet showing on my depth sounder. I was pushing through soft mud for about 100'. People here said I would be lucky to find 6' at low tide near marker G19 coming into Jekyll. Going south from here is better.

Lasata 10-09-2013 12:34

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Mark; I remember not hitting truly warm weather last year until Ft Lauderdale... Sure was a cold one. This is why I am starting in October provided the weather cooperates.

Scoobert; you'll probably want to avoid Hatteras (go inside behind Norfolk through the VA Cut, then exit again at Beaufort, NC). I am planning a total of 10 days down to Miami, mostly outside with the exception mentioned above. I've budgeted 5 of those days from half way down the Chesapeake through to Beaufort... Remember, you have locks and bridges to wait for in the ditch, AND you can / should only run during daylight hours while in the ditch.

...IMHO,
Ralph G

jimking100 10-09-2013 13:25

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Scoobert, some posts have been insulting so I won't go down that road but there has also been some very insightful messages that you should heed. I have made the trip several times. Once on the outside from Beauford to Charleston, my one crew member became incapacitated from sea sickness and he was a long time sailor. I ended up hand steering (auto-pilot couldn't handle the conditions) for 44 hours before reaching Charleston. That is a long time to be tethered to the helm. I draw 6"8" and had to wait on the tide a few times in SC and Georgia but it can be done, Also, the temperature can be freezing at this time of year, near St. Marys, I saw 21deg F at night for over a week. I am always the optimist but suggest you really reconsider your plan. Good luck and fair winds...hope to hear from you when it is all over. PM me if you would like to talk in person, I can give you a lot more details.

Seaworthy Lass 10-09-2013 14:39

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ (Post 1335614)
A good watch system for two people is
0000 - 0400
0400 - 0800
0800- 1300
1300-1700
1700-2400

Do you toss a coin to decide who gets the seven hour shift? :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ (Post 1335614)
...person on-watch cooks. :)

I would like to suggest a better alternative is that the person on watch keeps a good lookout :thumb:.

WebWench 10-09-2013 15:37

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
We bought our boat from seasoned sailers. They told us that the best way to get off shore experience is to crew with an experienced captain a few times. Then make sure you have plenty of crew when you start sailing your own boat off shore. People get sick, injured or incapacitated. If you have 4 people on board, at least three with offshore experience, you put the odds in your favor.
If this is your first offshore trip and you are taking only one inexperienced crew with you...you may be risking both your lives. What happens if you get hurt or incapacitated? What will your wife do? Is this trip really worth that?
My suggestion....take your time and go crew with experienced people first!

boatman61 10-09-2013 15:44

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WebWench (Post 1336383)
We bought our boat from seasoned sailers. They told us that the best way to get off shore experience is to crew with an experienced captain a few times. Then make sure you have plenty of crew when you start sailing your own boat off shore. People get sick, injured or incapacitated. If you have 4 people on board, at least three with offshore experience, you put the odds in your favor.
If this is your first offshore trip and you are taking only one inexperienced crew with you...you may be risking both your lives. What happens if you get hurt or incapacitated? What will your wife do? Is this trip really worth that?
My suggestion....take your time and go crew with experienced people first!

I recommend MarkJ... and the yet to be GF without benefits...:thumb:

scoobert 10-09-2013 21:08

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1335999)
Well that says a lot about your attitude... and your consideration for your crew..:D
As to hard hits in a 48ftr... your Green is verging fluorescent...
Playing in sheltered waters is a whole different ball game to open waters... and for me that includes the sheltered Chesapeake... figure on an average of 100nm/day for this trip... tho' if I was doing it I'd run across to the N wall of the Stream then shimmy across and head S... east of the stream and picking up the counter currents curving S... and stay well clear of those Capes... the shallows go out a long ways and the sea's can be lethal if your caught out... don't think you'll enjoy the 30ft+ breaking waves... and they'll have to be hand steered... AP's can't steer safely into that stuff and you will be rolled..
Have sailed Cape Fear and Hatteras solo... did not enjoy it one bit...:p

I dont know what you mean about running around the current???

I.Grind 10-09-2013 22:01

So you plan to stand watch for 16 hours a day, then turn it over to your inexperienced wife for 8 hours? For what, 30 days? Have you tried this out, maybe a little practice run for the weekend? That is a brutal schedule, even for crusty old salts, much less beginners. I humbly suggest you try this watch schedule on for size before you head offshore.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it sure won't fun.

carstenb 10-09-2013 22:37

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1336636)
I dont know what you mean about running around the current???

Your not understanding what he means is another good reason not to do this.

he's saying sail east until you have crossed the gulfstream current. on the eastern side there will be some counter currents heading south.

A smrt move - but then you have to be aware that once you cross the gulfstream, you're in the middle of the atlantic and can't get back across until you are far south - meaning if bad weather comes along, you either run for europe or sit it out (somewhere in the middle of nowhere)

bobconnie 10-09-2013 23:00

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
:flowers:All I can hope is ya change your mind! Ive been following your posts, and with the pics you have posted, and your ideas about how things are at sea. And at this time if your ideas and your boat have not greatly improved, your in for a BAD trip! If you care at all for your wife, please get some help to take this boat down this coast!! From what Ive read your not even ready for this trip if ya used the ICW!! Not tryin to pee ya off, but I sure hope ya think this trip over a little. Just my 2 cents

smaarch 10-09-2013 23:56

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
very much a newbie here (after sailing LIS for nearly 18 years)
I've been researching and planning to take my little 30'er far and wide.
a few weeks ago i helped a friend take his boat up the NE coast to Maine. (because he knows i'm planning such adventures)
3 of us. 4 days - 400 miles nonstop
It was the first time i was off offshore.
It was a great experience and i'm very glad i did it. One i will never forget
BUT:
i have to say there were a few moments where i paused and seriously thought about what we were doing.
like the night the wind kicked up and i dropped a flashlight - watched it float away in the pitch black night and disappear in 2 seconds,
I also have to say in my evaluation, while my friend (an ocean sailor) is prepared for most every eventuality, it seriously made me think about whether i was.

The Answer is NO.
and having the experience i now have, I would not do the trip without further preparation and gear.

I'm very pleased i didn't attempt this on my own keel.

As other posters have said: I think you are going to learn a lot if you take this on.

scoobert 11-09-2013 00:32

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by I.Grind (Post 1336659)
So you plan to stand watch for 16 hours a day, then turn it over to your inexperienced wife for 8 hours? For what, 30 days? Have you tried this out, maybe a little practice run for the weekend? That is a brutal schedule, even for crusty old salts, much less beginners. I humbly suggest you try this watch schedule on for size before you head offshore.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it sure won't fun.

You think 8 hrs is too much for her?
I could knock it to 6 i guess...?

carstenb 11-09-2013 00:56

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1336710)
You think 8 hrs is too much for her?
I could knock it to 6 i guess...?

I think you really don't know what you are doing. You're going to do a 16 hour watch?
RONTLMFAO

By the way, checked out your blog - I don't think I would undertake the contemplated voyage with an engine like yours. But to each his own

scoobert 11-09-2013 01:01

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by carstenb (Post 1336715)
I think you really don't know what you are doing. You're going to do a 16 hour watch?
RONTLMFAO

By the way, checked out your blog - I don't think I would undertake the contemplated voyage with an engine like yours. But to each his own

Glad you find humor in things with none in them.
I am a lorry driver, i drive 18-20 hours a day.
16 is a day off to me.

scoobert 11-09-2013 01:03

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by carstenb (Post 1336715)

By the way, checked out your blog - I don't think I would undertake the contemplated voyage with an engine like yours. But to each his own

Because the paint is a mess?
I am a diesel mechanic. The engine is solid, its brand new at 1050 hrs.

foolishsailor 11-09-2013 01:04

Look up "polyphasic" sleeping.

You are going to need to see if you can do this as you are effectively singlehanding.

It is the infamous sleep 15 minutes and scan for a 24 hour period with one large sleep (2 hours) in the day. Try it out for 72 hours on land first - get a clip on repeating timer set for 15 minutes and try friday morning to monday mornign to get a feel for exhaustion and how it effects decision making.

Even worse thiugh, you plan on singlehanding near coastal which means you probably wont even be able to do that and may get no sleep at all -as you will have many "under" lit vessels to worry about or you may spend whole evenings always with some ships light somewhere on the horizon to worry about.

Then there is the weather. The effects of weather are going to be a shocker for you. 2-3m swells dont sound like much to someone whose only experience of them is on video - but they will scare and exhaust you as a first timer - god forbid you get 5m and larger which would not be uncommon on your passage and time. Also the ordeals of reefing and sail change and shifting gears as the wind backs and veers throughout the day.

Then you have the systems on the boat to worry about, the engine and batts etc.

This is an excellent opportunity to get a good skipper onboard to learn from. At the end of a passage like this you will be a substantially better sailor and more importantly you will have a clearer perspective on what to expect from your next passage.

Please seriously consider the warnings from fellow CFers. Not matter how intelligent your are you still lack the most important safety factor - Experience.

Please dontlet Hubris hurt you or your wife.

Coops 11-09-2013 01:04

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1336717)
Glad you find humor in things with none in them.
I am a lorry driver, i drive 18-20 hours a day.
16 is a day off to me.

That would not be legal over here.

Coops.

Seaworthy Lass 11-09-2013 01:15

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1336717)
Glad you find humor in things with none in them.
I am a lorry driver, i drive 18-20 hours a day.
16 is a day off to me.

Scoobert, sailing offshore is NOTHING like lorry driving. That is why some people are laughing at your proposed schedule.

Even in reasonably mild conditions you can be tossed about, needing every muscle just to stay balanced. A two hour shift can be absolutely exhausting in rough conditions. Yet you are proposing 16 hours!!!!!!

Check out the threads here on watch schedules for some ideas on what people find works best. Schedules of course need to be modified according to crew capability, the conditions and how many are on board, but in all my years of sailing I have never heard of a couple using anything like a 16 + 8 hour schedule routinely offshore.

scoobert 11-09-2013 01:32

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Coops (Post 1336720)
That would not be legal over here.

Coops.

Its not legal here. We make it legal.

Coops 11-09-2013 01:40

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1336730)
Its not legal here. We make it legal.

Personally, I would not be admitting to that kind of stuff on an open forum, but you are making that decision.

Coops.

carstenb 11-09-2013 02:00

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1336717)
Glad you find humor in things with none in them.
I am a lorry driver, i drive 18-20 hours a day.
16 is a day off to me.

Well, I certainly don't mean to be insulting, but a 16 and 8 hour watch is just about undoable (ok - boatman61 does it - but he's weird - no offense meant boatman:D)

If you read my past post - my wife and I went 27 hours beating straight into the wind. both of us are reasonable fit and experienced sailors - we were exhausted at the end of it. It is not driving a truck. You expend a lot of energy simply hanging on.

If bad weather hits, the description of being inside a washing machine is quite accurate. And when you are exhausted, cold, hungry you will end up making bad decisions unless you are very very experienced.

But as I said - to each his own.

boatman61 11-09-2013 02:30

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by carstenb (Post 1336739)
Well, I certainly don't mean to be insulting, but a 16 and 8 hour watch is just about undoable (ok - boatman61 does it - but he's weird - no offense meant boatman:D)
.

None taken mate... :D

Scoobi... take the ICW going down.. hop out at Beaufort/Morehead City and do the rest in hops.. staying out for the Georgia bit... unless its been dredged lately..
Save the outside sail for the trip back N when you've more experience of your boat and systems... and the Stream is in your favour... and you've a better idea of your limits and strengths.

Delancey 11-09-2013 03:34

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Scooby- didn't anyone tell you gentlemen don't sail to weather? You have to go to Portugal first if you want to get to Florida.

scoobert 11-09-2013 03:52

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Delancy (Post 1336762)
Scooby- You have to go to Portugal first if you want to get to Florida.

Don't tempt me!!!

I.Grind 11-09-2013 03:57

Driving a truck is monotonous, driving a boat can be exhausting. If you overdo it driving you can pull over and sleep. There's no rest stops in the mid-Atlantic. If you heave to with wind and current against you, you will go backwards. You need to keep some energy in reserve in case there is a problem, and there will be.

Just try it first. Go sailing for a couple days, like a long weekend, plan to spend 24 a day in transit, just you and the wife, see how it works out. I think it's not what you expect.

scoobert 11-09-2013 04:07

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by I.Grind (Post 1336773)
Driving a truck is monotonous, driving a boat can be exhausting. If you overdo it driving you can pull over and sleep. There's no rest stops in the mid-Atlantic. If you heave to with wind and current against you, you will go backwards. You need to keep some energy in reserve in case there is a problem, and there will be.

Just try it first. Go sailing for a couple days, like a long weekend, plan to spend 24 a day in transit, just you and the wife, see how it works out. I think it's not what you expect.

We are 2 days from any big water...
I soloed when i brought it home, did 16 hours a day, and other then running out of food, i was fine.

I.Grind 11-09-2013 04:12

Well good luck then, have fun.

s/v Moondancer 11-09-2013 05:20

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
When you read threads like this one it is difficult to determine whether or not someone is serious or is just "Taking the Micky" out of all the experienced sailors sitting in anchorages like Prickly Bay waiting out hurricane season.

Scoobert appears genuine!

We have actually done the proposed trip twice, outside and in late October to the middle of November. It was interesting and challenging with a night of F9 gusting 10 and a night of F8 gales. Both unpredicted by NOAA, in fact during the entire night off Jersey, in a F9 gale (41-47 knots), NOAA continually reminded me that the maximum winds would be 25 knots! But if you cant handle serious weather you should not be out there.

Hatteras is an interesting challenge, there are 3 ways to get around the Cape.

1) Well inside on the ICW, easiest and prettiest.
2) Well outside 100-200 nm off-shore on the far side of the Gulf Stream, hard work.
3) Within sight of land there are a series of red markers on the 10 fathom line and there is usually a counter current going south. In fact from Chesapeake to Miami, last Fall, we stayed close to shore most of the way south and the current had a southerly component 90% of the time.

I have done all three and by far the easiest was on the 10 fathom line which we have done 3 times, twice in Fall. However, it does require a very solid 2 day weather window and if you get it wrong you are in serious trouble. I do not recommend the 10 fathom line route but merely say that it is possible if you can predict the weather better than NOAA!

The only advise I wish to give Scoobert is that in NE gales all of the East Coast entries are dangerous and that it is safer to stay at sea then to enter somewhere like St Augustine. Which is why the ICW is safer! We went into Jacksonville for breakfast in 35 knots, (not an easy entry, St Augustine would have been near lethal) and found a 4 man pro crew who had been exhausted by 4 days of bashing south in bad conditions.

Good luck

annsni 11-09-2013 05:43

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
I was talking to hubby about this and while he has been sailing for over 20 years and has done significant racing (thus knows our boat really well), he would only do this trip if he took a group of men who are experienced doing this. At our club, we have a good number of men who have done NY to Bermuda or NY to Florida so he'd ask 4-5 of them to go with him - and leave me home. There is no way I'd do that trip. I don't like sailing THAT much and that trip certainly would make me a landlubber fast.

Then he reminded me of the 12-15' waves that the boat was hit with at Frying Pan Shoals that took out the steering on our boat when we had a VERY experienced captain bringing it up north in April (which he said was 8 days from Lauderdale to NY, not 7 like I thought). Yeah - SO not doing that trip!

scoobert 12-09-2013 05:54

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
I guess we will play it by ear.
We have about 700 mile fuel range, so its not the end of the world on the icw.
To get this straight, i cannot go thru okeechoobie, right?

Sailmonkey 12-09-2013 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1337787)
I guess we will play it by ear.
We have about 700 mile fuel range, so its not the end of the world on the icw.
To get this straight, i cannot go thru okeechoobie, right?

No okeechobee for you. How have you calculated your fuel range? Headwinds can literally cut this in half. Slowing down can easily double it...


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