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-   -   Transit Time? NY-FL (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/transit-time-ny-fl-111080.html)

scoobert 09-09-2013 16:04

Transit Time? NY-FL
 
We plan to go into the ocean, not down the ditch. how many hours of travel time should we budget for?
the end port will be tampa. beginning, albany.
i have heard there is some place in the Carolinas that you should take the ICW because the ocean in that area is crazy, where is that?

Vasco 09-09-2013 16:22

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
When are you starting?

scoobert 09-09-2013 16:22

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
first week of november

MarkJ 09-09-2013 17:17

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335529)
first week of november

From New York?


Take your bunny rug.

scoobert 09-09-2013 17:19

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ (Post 1335553)
From New York?


Take your bunny rug.


i know it will be cold.
i have all the cold weather gear we need.
only cold until Virginia.

annsni 09-09-2013 17:32

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
I'm sure currents and winds will be different but our boat left Fort Lauderdale and next touched a dock in Huntington, NY 7 days later. They stayed offshore, did hit a storm of the Carolinas and lost the steering at some point in there. Fortunately, the autopilot still worked so they video-gamed it home. LOL

scoobert 09-09-2013 17:33

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by annsni (Post 1335560)
I'm sure currents and winds will be different but our boat left Fort Lauderdale and next touched a dock in Huntington, NY 7 days later. They stayed offshore, did hit a storm of the Carolinas and lost the steering at some point in there. Fortunately, the autopilot still worked so they video-gamed it home. LOL


wow only 7 days!?

annsni 09-09-2013 17:44

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335563)
wow only 7 days!?

Yep! And that was with a stop by the Coast Guard when they came into NY Harbor at 11 pm at night in April of 2002. :) They were not letting them out of there easily!

Scott Berg 09-09-2013 17:54

7-8 days

scoobert 09-09-2013 17:57

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
well we have a racing boat, so during my watch (16 hours) we will be in top form, but before the wifes watch i will switch to the 64% genoa and throw in a reef. then if she gets into trouble, it takes a while.

scoobert 09-09-2013 18:01

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Berg (Post 1335588)
7-8 days

to tampa?

annsni 09-09-2013 18:02

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Going around to Tampa will definitely make a longer trip.

scoobert 09-09-2013 18:03

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
i should mention a 6.5 draft, no okeechoobie for me!

Sailmonkey 09-09-2013 18:04

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
You'll be against the current the most of the way.

What is your passage planning speed?

as a rough guess I'd budget 3 weeks for this adventure.

MarkJ 09-09-2013 18:09

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Perhpas you can add a few extra days to that as you are going against the current the whole way, and wind on the nose often after cape Hatteras. But if its a direct passage, no stops, you should do it in 12-13 days or put it a better way, thats how long it would take me :)

I've always thought if you reef for someone elses watch thats like telling them you dont trust them. They will sit there... bored... resentful... and go to sleep. For that length trip anyone will be quite proficient half way through.

I was in St Augustine, Florida in november last year and it was cold as hell. :)

A good watch system for two people is
0000 - 0400
0400 - 0800
0800- 1300
1300-1700
1700-2400

person on-watch cooks. :)

annsni 09-09-2013 18:13

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335604)
i should mention a 6.5 draft, no okeechoobie for me!

Ours is a Catalina 42 with a fin keel. 6'8". It was all offshore from Lauderdale to Long Island Sound. :)

scoobert 09-09-2013 18:17

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
my wife has no idea how to sail. none. scarry.
but less scarey then waking up to a 35 degree heal and a wife screaming " we are going to flip!!!!!"

more safe to have her just keep an eye out for boats, and will teach her how to adjust the autopilot to keep the right position to the wind. more safe then going below to sleep with noone on watch .

FSMike 09-09-2013 18:18

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335520)
We plan to go into the ocean, not down the ditch. how many hours of travel time should we budget for?
the end port will be tampa. beginning, albany.
i have heard there is some place in the Carolinas that you should take the ICW because the ocean in that area is crazy, where is that?

Come on man, do your own research. You're supposed to be in charge?
How far is it, how fast are you going to go, do the math, that's the time required.

Doing your own research may lead you to the conclusion that a south bound trip against the gulf stream will be a lot slower than a north bound trip with the gulf stream.

You might want to research Cape Hatteras, aka the graveyard of the Atlantic.

You may want to consider a professional captain for this trip.

NSboatman 09-09-2013 19:26

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
what FSMike said. exactly.

November, southbound, offshore, green (very) green crew? just the two of you it sounds like.

BAD idea.

If you must go then, with only your wife as crew, then ICW it, if you can.

carstenb 10-09-2013 05:47

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
To give you an idea of what having the wind on your nose means when ocean sailing.

Last weekend we sailed with the wind dead head on. the trip measured out (on the chart) at 121 nm. The log, after 27 1/2 hours of sailing measured 164nm. So roughly 1/3 greater distance travel than the rump line.

Speed on course sailed (164/27.5) equalled 5.96 knots. Speed made towards destination (121/27.5) equalled 4.4 knots.

Now go plug in the distance down the US coast and you'll see what speed you'll average. Don't forget to figure in the current which will run against you.

My bet - you'll (maybe) average 3 - 3.5 knots (nm) distance gained.

By the way - we sailed in 24-28 knot winds, no current and the boat is a 40 foot performance cruiser.

On the other hand, coming back a couple of days later, we had the wind at our backs, made the reverse run in just under 18 hours, 132 nm showing on the log (average speed - 7.33 knots, speed made good - 6.72 knots) The winds coming back were gale force > 32 knots. Highest gusts I saw were running 44 knots, but I think some were higher. I was hand steering, because the autopilot couldn't handle the boat in that weather.

Going out was hard work, coming back was a sleigh ride. Hand steering was tough - after a couple of hours you were plumb out beat.

Doing your proposed trip i November? Pack lots of very warm clothes - you'll need them

scoobert 10-09-2013 05:55

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
yes, i have fought the wind before, and in a tight channel. its not fun.
so the prevailing wind that time of year is northerly?
the current as well?
6NMPG is what we get under power, so the ICW is a very easy option, but i truely want to sail it, not motor. i sailed into a 15kt wind in long island sound at 7kts, i think this boat to windward is very good. now that i understand sailtrim (textbook version of understand) i should be able to get a ton of speed out of it. not sure what my hull speed is, but with the engine going full tilt i can hit 9 gps mph.

carstenb 10-09-2013 06:15

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335899)
yes, i have fought the wind before, and in a tight channel. its not fun.
so the prevailing wind that time of year is northerly?
the current as well?
6NMPG is what we get under power, so the ICW is a very easy option, but i truely want to sail it, not motor. i sailed into a 15kt wind in long island sound at 7kts, i think this boat to windward is very good. now that i understand sailtrim (textbook version of understand) i should be able to get a ton of speed out of it. not sure what my hull speed is, but with the engine going full tilt i can hit 9 gps mph.

Theoritical hull speed for a boat your length (assuming your waterline length is the same as your overall length - which it ain't) is 9.48 knots. Say your waterline is about 43ft then hull speed will be 8.8 knots.
You will not average 8.8 knots.

Our theoretical hull speed is 8.2 knots. Sailing in Gale force conditions, with the wind at our backs, we averaged 7.33 knots through the water, something like 12-15% below hull speed. Admittedly we were only flying our genua, but in those conditions, any more canvas would have been imprudent.

You will not do any better. Almost certainly worse.

Against the wind, with the current against you, you will not average much more than 3-3.5 nm actual ground gained. No matter how good you are. you may average less. You have no idea what beating against the wind and current for several days means. No sleep, lots of bruises, cold, hungry and quite possibly seasick. Unless you have a self-tacking rig, you'll both have to be awake every time you tack - so you'll not get more than an hours sleep at a time.

It will be a long, nasty ride and not one that I would undertake as a newbie (which you are) and a totally green crew. you are asking for disaster. If nothing else, you will end up driving your wife away from sailing - she will never go with you again.

donradcliffe 10-09-2013 06:17

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
You are going to learn a lot on this trip.

scoobert 10-09-2013 06:27

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
I guess the nice part is on this trip,
We can always say pffft and head into the icw.
If we get sick, tired, bruised, then we head in, i drop our
Very well planned ground tackle, and we sleep it off.

Don1500 10-09-2013 06:42

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335554)
i know it will be cold.
i have all the cold weather gear we need.
only cold until Virginia.

Ya, right. It is cold all the way to Florida out in the ocean.

In answer to your question about where you should take the ICW, I would guess that would be from Hospital Point (Norfolk) to Little River (SC). In other words to get you past Hatteras, Frying Pan Shoals and Cape Fear. But if you go far enough outside it doesn't matter.

As for time, you are talking about the distance from Halifax to Ireland, plan for 90 days. And if the wind is from the south, more.

I draw 5.5' and there are places you do not want to go with a 6.5' keel. McCullenville, SC, Most of GA. You will really have to watch the tides.

Might I suggest, outside to either Delaware Bay or Norfolk, inside to South Port, then outside to Fernandina. There are places along the way to stop in, Charleston, Brunswick. If you want to see some really middle of noplace places, go in St. Catherine's Inlet and head north on the ICW about 10 miles to Big Tom Creek. After Fernandina inside or outside is your choice.

Don1500 10-09-2013 06:50

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335899)
but with the engine going full tilt i can hit 9 gps mph.

9 GPS is your speed over the ground, how fast of a current did you have with you? To know how you're doing you need speed over the water. In the Cape Fear river I did 10.5 knts over the ground, but my boat was only going 4.5 over the water.

scoobert 10-09-2013 06:54

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don1500 (Post 1335952)
9 GPS is your speed over the ground, how fast of a current did you have with you? To know how you're doing you need speed over the water. In the Cape Fear river I did 10.5 knts over the ground, but my boat was only going 4.5 over the water.


i was on the river, i did 8 up and 10 back. so i averaged them.
wind was naught. this was at full throttle.

boatman61 10-09-2013 06:56

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Methinks ScoobiDoo is gonna learn some serious lessons out there... ;)

scoobert 10-09-2013 06:58

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61 (Post 1335961)
Methinks ScoobiDoo is gonna learn some serious lessons out there... ;)


thats not how you spell scooby, but either way i know i will be more educated when i get back to NY next spring.
during our stay in FL we will be taking off for a month to aruba, so all said and done i should be doing 6000 miles this winter.

NSboatman 10-09-2013 06:59

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Scoobert - you're getting some good advice here. Please pay attention to it.

Do not, under any circumstances, take Hatteras (or any of the capes) along this route for granted; especially at this time of year and with green crew.

You may think that after getting bruised and tired and sick you can just pull in and drop the hook, but it is never as simple as that.

You are obviously an experienced pilot and have some appreciation for weather - but the experience in a boat offshore is NOTHING like the controlled environment of a cockpit or cabin while flying. making 3 knots or less in steep seas when you're cold and sick and bruised can make the remaining 30-40 miles to safe harbour an eternity. And once you're there, there's nothing you can do about it, but get thru - or get pulled off by a chopper. Every fall there are dozens of rescues resulting from this sort of thing - and several fatalities.

Lots of people make it, lots have a great time - but it would be foolhardy to push out into what are known to be extremely punishing waters with a green crew in the fall. Take your time, learn the boat, learn the weather, learn your wife's and your abilities. Sure - at good places along the ICW, poke outside and do a day or two's run outside- but pick your weather carefully and don't underestimate the misery that pounding into a steep sea off those headlands can bring.

best of luck-

annsni 10-09-2013 07:03

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335957)
i was on the river, i did 8 up and 10 back. so i averaged them.
wind was naught. this was at full throttle.

What was the current? That makes a difference. We regularly use the tide on rivers to gain significant speed but that doesn't mean that we are always traveling at over 10 knots.

scoobert 10-09-2013 07:04

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NSboatman (Post 1335965)
Scoobert - you're getting some good advice here. Please pay attention to it.

Do not, under any circumstances, take Hatteras (or any of the capes) along this route for granted; especially at this time of year and with green crew.

You may think that after getting bruised and tired and sick you can just pull in and drop the hook, but it is never as simple as that.

You are obviously an experienced pilot and have some appreciation for weather - but the experience in a boat offshore is NOTHING like the controlled environment of a cockpit or cabin while flying. making 3 knots or less in steep seas when you're cold and sick and bruised can make the remaining 30-40 miles to safe harbour an eternity. And once you're there, there's nothing you can do about it, but get thru - or get pulled off by a chopper. Every fall there are dozens of rescues resulting from this sort of thing - and several fatalities.

Lots of people make it, lots have a great time - but it would be foolhardy to push out into what are known to be extremely punishing waters with a green crew in the fall. Take your time, learn the boat, learn the weather, learn your wife's and your abilities. Sure - at good places along the ICW, poke outside and do a day or two's run outside- but pick your weather carefully and don't underestimate the misery that pounding into a steep sea off those headlands can bring.

best of luck-


your quite right, i am getting enough warning that i can plan well for it at least.
i am sure i will have some pills for the wife. she has been in rough seas before.
we took my tiny powerboat to NYC last year. she got very bruised at we slammed into whitecap waves at 40mph, outdrive leaving the water, spray everywhere.
she is a trooper, besides having more bruises from her then the boat ride, she was fine.

do you really think we will take hard hits in a 48' 15ton yacht?
at least i can't sink it. unless i do something very very dumb, like run with the hatches open :P

scoobert 10-09-2013 07:05

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by annsni (Post 1335968)
What was the current? That makes a difference. We regularly use the tide on rivers to gain significant speed but that doesn't mean that we are always traveling at over 10 knots.

no idea. typically up here on the upper hudson we rarely see over 1kt.

Stu Jackson 10-09-2013 07:09

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
You might want to wander around The Great Loop website and activecaptain, which also has charts of the areas and check the depths.

Your concept appears to be very dangerous, especially given your basic question: How long will it take me? C'mon, if you're a pilot, D = S * T, but in a boat it's a lot different.

Your draft will be a REAL issue on the ICW. I live on the west coast but have read enough on this and other forums and blogs about that trip.

You need to do a LOT more research. A 16 hour watch for you and then "get HER up?" Thagt's simply foolhardy and crazy. And dangerous.

Anyway...good luck, you'll need it.

scoobert 10-09-2013 07:13

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
yes, i have been on the great loop website. its pretty sparse on the ICW from FL to NY.
i did learn on that site i cannot complete a loop on my boat, due to draft.
kind of a bummer.
i think the ICW has a channel of very deep draft? i thought it was used by huge ships?
i will have to reread the part about the canal down south thou. not sure if i can make that area.
regardless, i will sail as much as i can comfortably and safely.

boatman61 10-09-2013 07:27

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335969)
your quite right, i am getting enough warning that i can plan well for it at least.
i am sure i will have some pills for the wife. she has been in rough seas before.
we took my tiny powerboat to NYC last year. she got very bruised at we slammed into whitecap waves at 40mph, outdrive leaving the water, spray everywhere.
she is a trooper, besides having more bruises from her then the boat ride, she was fine.

do you really think we will take hard hits in a 48' 15ton yacht?
at least i can't sink it. unless i do something very very dumb, like run with the hatches open :P

Well that says a lot about your attitude... and your consideration for your crew..:D
As to hard hits in a 48ftr... your Green is verging fluorescent...
Playing in sheltered waters is a whole different ball game to open waters... and for me that includes the sheltered Chesapeake... figure on an average of 100nm/day for this trip... tho' if I was doing it I'd run across to the N wall of the Stream then shimmy across and head S... east of the stream and picking up the counter currents curving S... and stay well clear of those Capes... the shallows go out a long ways and the sea's can be lethal if your caught out... don't think you'll enjoy the 30ft+ breaking waves... and they'll have to be hand steered... AP's can't steer safely into that stuff and you will be rolled..
Have sailed Cape Fear and Hatteras solo... did not enjoy it one bit...:p

Sailmonkey 10-09-2013 07:35

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert (Post 1335982)
i think the ICW has a channel of very deep draft? i thought it was used by huge ships?
i will have to reread the part about the canal down south thou. not sure if i can make that area.
regardless, i will sail as much as i can comfortably and safely.

Look at the free NOAA charts of the ditch........not meant for ships. You also should look at the pilot charts for the proposed time of year, along with the current forcast models on passageweather.com.
And if you do decide to pull this stunt off, learn to use your VHF.

MarkJ 10-09-2013 07:53

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
Sail outside. The ICW will teach you nothing.

annsni 10-09-2013 08:18

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
The captain we had bring our boat up to NY has crew pay him to go with him for their hours for captain's license. There was one guy who was a powerboater who went with him. The captain told us that as soon as the boat tied to the dock, the guy grabbed his duffle and left, swearing to never set foot on a sailboat again. I'm sure the storm off the Carolinas didn't help him but I think he was just ignorant of what that kind of passage can bring. Honestly, I wonder if the OP isn't of similar mind. :)

Don1500 10-09-2013 08:52

Re: Transit time? NY-FL
 
You might think going outside all the way is a bigger adventure, but after 10 minutes out of sight of land you have seen everything, except for the bad stuff...wind, rain, no wind, hot sun, cold dreary rainy days with no wind. At least inside you can throw an anchor, pull into a neat place like Oriental, Coinjock, Beaufort, or Beaufort. By the time you get to the Chesapeake I will bet you wife will not be having as much fun as you think she will.


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