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scook1 22-08-2013 10:12

Young Yachties-Sail article
 
In this months issue of Sail Magazine, I read a piece about, "Young Yachties". Folks who are significantly younger than the typical cruiser, but are on the high seas nevertheless. Why do you think there is an increase in young cruisers these days?

Spencer

Mimsy 22-08-2013 10:19

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
More older, yet sturdy boats available on the market for bargains and a crap economy so more people are feeling that the rat race isn't even a viable option for rats!

Boatguy30 22-08-2013 10:36

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
I don't think there is much of an increase. I'm 35 and I did a pacific crossing 8 years ago. There were a few young crews then and a few now. Most are on short term less than one year trips. Did not see the article, but there are always some out there.

scook1 22-08-2013 11:15

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
The article suggested as much Mimsy. Less options for jobs is making more people decide to cruise. It also sounded like cruisiing was a relatively short term thing to help people find out what they wanted to do with their lives and gain them skills to return home with. I was curious Boatguy if that was the case as well. The numbers might not really have changed a whole lot.

Spencer

kcmarcet 22-08-2013 11:52

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
It might because of the bad economy, if said young cruisers have saved money but no good job prospects, why not just buy a boat a enjoy the time you have, then when the economy improves and job prospects are better just dock the boat and go to work.

brownoarsman 22-08-2013 12:02

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
Most of the reports I've seen have said that sailing is in decline, largely because not enough young people are adopting it to replace older folks who can no longer pursue the sport/hobby. Here's just one Google example: Saving Sailing So I would think there would be less young cruisers overall.

There's a lot of reasons both why cruising could increase and decrease with younger cruisers though. Besides the economic reasons; many of my friends/peers (I'm 28) are delaying children or choosing not to have them at all in preference for living more adventures while they're younger. Obviously people cruise with kids, though I've got to think it makes it harder, so having kids later would help young cruisers go out earlier, so to speak.

Against young person cruising though; there's a huge suburban to urban migration going on now in this generation; with many young people preferring to live in cities. Renting a mooring in Boston for a cruisable boat (26+ feet) is about $5,000+ for six months, so even if you were to buy an inexpensive boat, the costs to keep it are tremendous unless you're planning to go now and not come back. I afford to sail (and go on small 3-day to two week cruises, depending on vacation days) only by getting a bunch of friends to go in together. Another factor I think is that because sailing's been dying off for a long time, a number of young people have not been introduced to it. I've introduced probably six of my friends to sailing through day cruises to the harbor islands or longer cruises to the Elizabeth Islands, and now my crew list is always full! But they never would have discovered the sport without an active sailor introducing it to them.

Hudson Force 22-08-2013 12:08

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
We started cruising and living aboard in our early twenties and, at that time in the early '70's, most other liveaboard cruisers seemed to be near our age. The significant change has not been much for those that are young, but the huge flood of retiring "boomers" moving aboard and cruising in their sixties plus. Maybe the economy has squelched some of those plans for retirees and left some greater opportunities. We have noticed a smaller number of seasonal cruisers moving up and down the East US Coast.

gjordan 22-08-2013 12:19

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
There was a thread about this around a year ago, and I think the general feeling was that there are fewer young people cruising, and it is mostly due to a bad job market. Thinking of leaving a decent job to cruise for a couple of years , and thinking of the market when you get back can be very sobering. Remember that magazine articles are usually written for the sole purpose of generating income for the magazine or writer. There does seem to be a large number of stunt sails by young people that are written about a lot, but these are almost always paid for by other people for fame or profit. I hardly call that cruising. Just an opinion. ____Grant.

Boatguy30 22-08-2013 13:39

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
There are also a handful of folks "pimping" the cruising lifestyle via their blogs and websites. I would imagine some in the article have their websites mentioned. I know one blogger personally that shamelessly asks for "donations" even though she comes from a very wealthy family.

anyway, I suppose nothing different than the Pardey's did. Though somehow seems more tacky.

barnakiel 22-08-2013 13:40

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
Where we are there are virtually no young people cruising. Very few 20-30 y.o. people either. Few 30-40. Some 40+. the majority of cruisers here are people who retired (65/72+).

I know some young cruisers who dropped out - they could no longer sustain this life style.

I think it has to do with all plain and formerly available jobs having been exported our to PRC.

b.

atoll 22-08-2013 13:47

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
lots of youngsters on my stretch of the estuary that have bought boats to refit and live on...........just wish they weren't quite so "PC".........we used to have parties that lasted for days in the 80's and 90's when doing similar things...........

Celestialsailor 22-08-2013 13:57

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
I think it is the access to media...internet etc. I've been coastal cruising for 25 years. I'm not an old man...yet. So at one point I was young doing it. On the docks, there were an ever rotating group of like minded/aged sailors. They never made much fanfare of it as now...just left. But with all the "look at me" blogs, it's easy to see a lot of younger people getting out there but I'm not sure the percentage is any different from before. By young I am guessing 20-35.

gtunison 22-08-2013 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel (Post 1319697)
Where we are there are virtually no young people cruising. Very few 20-30 y.o. people either. Few 30-40. Some 40+. the majority of cruisers here are people who retired (65/72+).

I know some young cruisers who dropped out - they could no longer sustain this life style.

I think it has to do with all plain and formerly available jobs having been exported our to PRC.

b.

Where is this PRC of which you speak? Do they allow liveaboard anchor outs?

Boatguy30 22-08-2013 17:01

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
I think anchoring is no problem, you just don't want to breathe the air or drink the water.

gtunison 22-08-2013 17:06

Ohhhh, China, Peoples Rep. of

Invictus69 26-08-2013 06:27

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scook1 (Post 1319588)
The article suggested as much Mimsy. Less options for jobs is making more people decide to cruise. It also sounded like cruisiing was a relatively short term thing to help people find out what they wanted to do with their lives and gain them skills to return home with. I was curious Boatguy if that was the case as well. The numbers might not really have changed a whole lot.

Spencer

I initially skipped this article (the title implied like this is the new dot.com trend) but read it after I saw the post on CF. Few observations:

I would agree with some comments about the overall decline. Sailboat sales were worst affected during the last recession (almost 50% decline) and the rise in upkeep costs (there is no inflation, right?) results into more bargains on the second-hand market. Great majority of the people I know would choose a motor boat vs a sail-boat because there is 'less work' :)

On the other hand, if somebody in their 20s can afford a decent boat, it is either that they had a great jobs or come from a well-off background. After all it is still an expensive hobby.

If you look for like-minded people, you would eventually find them. I admire all folks (especially if they are younger), to cut loose from land and cast-off in the unknown.

I have always associated sailing with freedom (and adventure), and long-term cruising as a real example of that. It was a bit disappointing to read that somebody would love to get home and become a politician to make the laws. Do we need yet more laws? Law is contrary to freedom. I would never associate a politician with sailing :)

Lake-Effect 26-08-2013 07:09

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Invictus69 (Post 1322497)
On the other hand, if somebody in their 20s can afford a decent boat, it is either that they had a great jobs or come from a well-off background. After all it is still an expensive hobby.

Perception problem right there. Sailing/cruising can be done on a modest budget IF one goes for a small and/or old boat. Our annual cost of boat ownership, everything in (insurance, consumables, club) has been less than the annual cost of smoking cigarettes. Our costs will be going up by about $1k a year because we've now got a club slip, but the total annual cost is still below what most people spend to golf or ski.

So, you'd think that this would be the entry point for young people - get/inherit a beater, and just start doing stuff. And many young people like the sport and camaraderie of boat racing.

I think a bigger factor, though, is that sailing/cruising has more appeal to someone who has been there, done that, has/had a career, raised a family, and are drawn to something sustaining that can be enjoyed well into retirement age. I've always liked sailing and boats, and I wish we had bought a boat sooner, but I think I appreciate and enjoy it more because we're in our 50s.

Invictus69 26-08-2013 08:40

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect (Post 1322532)
Perception problem right there. Sailing/cruising can be done on a modest budget IF one goes for a small and/or old boat. Our annual cost of boat ownership, everything in (insurance, consumables, club) has been less than the annual cost of smoking cigarettes. Our costs will be going up by about $1k a year because we've now got a club slip, but the total annual cost is still below what most people spend to golf or ski.

It may well be a perception problem. Not that I disagree but from my point of view some minimum level of comfort is required.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect (Post 1322532)
I think a bigger factor, though, is that sailing/cruising has more appeal to someone who has been there, done that, has/had a career, raised a family, and are drawn to something sustaining that can be enjoyed well into retirement age. I've always liked sailing and boats, and I wish we had bought a boat sooner, but I think I appreciate and enjoy it more because we're in our 50s.

Agreed - this probably explains why most of the cruisers fall in the above category.

tlgibson97 26-08-2013 09:08

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
I'm 34 and would love to cruise but I'm just starting out in sailing. My job doesn't allow me to be gone for very long so until I can retire I will be limited to where I can go. It's not something I can do remotely.

I plan to retire when I'm 55 so in 15 years or so I'l be looking to buy my retirement home on the water. I won't be young any more but young enough and hopefully experienced enough to live a long time on the water.

Catalpa1 26-08-2013 09:24

My wife and I are both 33yo and moved aboard with our 3yo son bout 3.5 years ago, and have since added a new crew member who is now 9 months old, and she knows only living onboard.

Our son, as do we, love the lifestyle and have no intention of giving it up. We were sick and tired of working all week, paying the mortgage and all associated bills, 2 cars and all their expenses and had talked about cruising on a yacht since we first met.

Put simply, we were sick of having no money left to enjoy life!!!

We travelled extensively just after we met and lived in a lot of different countries, most quite poor, but we loved the simplicity of life and how happy the people were with so little compared to western cultures. So we sold the house (just covered the mortgage), saw an older boat with an excellent history and went for it!! Never looked back. I grew up sailing and my wife and kids love it. And we are not from rich upbringings or have fantastic well paid jobs, but we can get work worldwide, keep the boat in great condition, food on the table, and I get to spend more time with my family than most people.

My question to younger people is why aren't there more of you enjoying a simple lifestyle rather then trying to keep up with the Jones'????

mrohr 26-08-2013 13:12

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
Man is born free,but found everywhere in chains........Rousseau.......

I don't think I can improve on that!

barnakiel 26-08-2013 13:13

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
How come 'fewer jobs makes them go cruising'???

How can they cruise without jobs? Them be millionaires?

If them millionaires, how come they care about fewer jobs?

The article is inconsistent with s.c. common sense.

Prior to retirement one can only cruise if there are MORE jobs around. Unless filthy rich.

b.

rognvald 26-08-2013 15:22

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
Why would one choose to sail when one could spend their entire working day loading inanities on Facebook, texting inconsequential tweets and mind numbing nonsense on their cell phones, shopping for designer labels in the shopping malls on a credit card over limit, dining in five star restaurants with the culinary expertise of Black Plague peasant, aimlessly driving their space pod automobiles in circles to nowhere, relaxing with a manicure, pedicure and facial in preparation for an evening of Dancing with the Stars and Turtleman. Why are there not more young people in sailing? I really don't know.

jgbrown 26-08-2013 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by rognvald (Post 1322955)
Why would one choose to sail when one could spend their entire working day loading inanities on Facebook, texting inconsequential tweets and mind numbing nonsense on their cell phones, shopping for designer labels in the shopping malls on a credit card over limit, dining in five star restaurants with the culinary expertise of Black Plague peasant, aimlessly driving their space pod automobiles in circles to nowhere, relaxing with a manicure, pedicure and facial in preparation for an evening of Dancing with the Stars and Turtleman. Why are there not more young people in sailing? I really don't know.

I think you meant
How would one be able to sail when the previous generation has made sure it's as close to impossible as could be to get ahead, with deliberately low hours to avoid providing benefits, no pensions, high interest debt as easy as possible to get, low interest on any savings? :p

Hudson Force 26-08-2013 15:50

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
There may be two different communities looking at the demographics of age and sailing. Those that have houses and jobs and lives ashore would find sailing an added expense and maybe too much too add to their budget,- a boat, a slip, an assigned vacation time to cruise, all the equipment and learning, club membership,....? Then there's the other goup that I know and to which I've been a member for 42 years. ....live on the boat, keep a job, cruise when you have the time, pay less, have more discressionary income. For some sailing is an expensive hobby and for others it's an opportunity to have more for less cost. I know quite a few young people still having more for less.

rognvald 26-08-2013 15:51

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jgbrown (Post 1322960)
I think you meant
How would one be able to sail when the previous generation has made sure it's as close to impossible as could be to get ahead, with deliberately low hours to avoid providing benefits, no pensions, high interest debt as easy as possible to get, low interest on any savings? :p


JG, It's not really what I meant . . . but, I'd be a fool to disagree with your above statement. Good luck and good sailing.

smaarch 26-08-2013 21:01

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
I find this an interesting post. I'm no Bernard Moitessier... Learning my own limitations everyday. I'm a coastal cruiser for some 18 years now.
I've not read the article which was referenced but i will offer a recent conversation.

In the 1980's, unfettered by any debt and after completing my undergrad, i set out and spent 2 years traveling across the USA with limited money, but i could do it...do it well...live, eat etc. and if i found myself in trouble, i could get a job.....and carry on.... Camping out and visiting most of the major cities in the United States. 2 Years.

I recently had a conversation with a couple of 25 year old guys...and this subject came up.
They looked at me as if i landed from another world.
After talking with them, it was all too clear this sort of freedom is not even on their radar screen.

Two thoughts come to my mind.
1st: they became the ideal consumerists and care more about their iphone bill than their freedom.
But i sort of know these guys and don't believe this as the answer.
It is clear they aspire to something more......the basis of the conversation.

2nd (and this they clearly expressed): they cannot afford to do the things i could at their age.
This i believe is true.

Without turning this into a political problem, and having a daughter their age, I'm saddened by their reality.

Where my generation saw possibility: They see obstacles.
And this speaks volumes for me.
oh hell turn it as political as you want.

avb3 26-08-2013 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by smaarch (Post 1323213)
I find this an interesting post. I'm no Bernard Moitessier... Learning my own limitations everyday. I'm a coastal cruiser for some 18 years now.
I've not read the article which was referenced but i will offer a recent conversation.

In the 1980's, unfettered by any debt and after completing my undergrad, i set out and spent 2 years traveling across the USA with limited money, but i could do it...do it well...live, eat etc. and if i found myself in trouble, i could get a job.....and carry on.... Camping out and visiting most of the major cities in the United States. 2 Years.

I recently had a conversation with a couple of 25 year old guys...and this subject came up.
They looked at me as if i landed from another world.
After talking with them, it was all too clear this sort of freedom is not even on their radar screen.

Two thoughts come to my mind.
1st: they became the ideal consumerists and care more about their iphone bill than their freedom.
But i sort of know these guys and don't believe this as the answer.
It is clear they aspire to something more......the basis of the conversation.

2nd (and this they clearly expressed): they cannot afford to do the things i could at their age.
This i believe is true.

Without turning this into a political problem, and having a daughter their age, I'm saddened by their reality.

Where my generation saw possibility: They see obstacles.
And this speaks volumes for me.
oh hell turn it as political as you want.

No let's NOT turn it political... That is against forum rules and will get post deleted.

People make choices as to the lifestyle they live.

As example, both of my 30 something year old children, are in a family situation were the mothers are stay at home moms.

The choices both of them have made is that they don't take have the holidays, make sure they have no debt, they live within their means, and if they buy something they pay it in cash including the brand new vehicles.

And both cases the only debt they have is a mortgage is on their newer homes.

They are not a doctors or lawyers or such; my son is a trades person whereas my son in law works with the government.

It is choices they and their wives made. Both of the wives are professionals, my daughters a teacher, my daughter in law is a nurse. A conscious decision not to keep up with the Joneses but to live within your means was made. It felt it was better for the children, my grandchildren, to have the stay at home moms. I agree. That was the same way my kids were raised.


Unfortunately many individuals and couples do not get that concept and as a result exhibit the defeatist attitude that the two 25-year-olds you referenced have.

smaarch 26-08-2013 22:02

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
completely incorrect
they are not defeatist as you assume - they are bright, frustrated and dismayed.
as far as the political is concerned I'm frankly sick and tired of this PC crap. call it what it is

avb3 26-08-2013 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by smaarch (Post 1323241)
completely incorrect
they are not defeatist as you assume - they are bright, frustrated and dismayed.
as far as the political is concerned I'm frankly sick and tired of this PC crap. call it what it is

But it does come down to choices. My 29 year old nephew just got married. He is an aeronautical engineer. He had it easy... right.

Nooooo...he had to make choices. Choices which included living in the bush summers planting trees for 7 years for the education, and then continue because he could not find a job initially. He didn't give up. He worked hard to earn the money to pay for the education. Planting those trees took him to remote areas far away from home, however, he took the jobs because through hard work he earned good money. As a result he now has a good education and a good job. He is only 4 years older than your example of the to 25-year-olds who are frustrated and dissolutioned.

It does come down to choices it doesn't it?

Target9000 26-08-2013 22:43

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boatguy30 (Post 1319694)
I know one blogger personally that shamelessly asks for "donations"

That always bugs me.

bobconnie 26-08-2013 23:04

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
:whistling:Cruiseing without lot's of money in the bank, is possible if you can do things lot's of others can't do ! And if your WILLING to do work that some might call demeaning! I have done work at places I would rather not have been, but there was work there ! Like re-fire bricking 2 boilers in the Philipines in 110 deg heat ! They could not get the locals to do the job! But ya know I made enough to cruise for 6 mos more !! It can be done! But ya can't just be only a brain person sometimes it takes a strong back !!! It's not as easy today as it was when I started cruiseing, but the rough works is still out there if ya look !! Just sayin ya don't need to be rich to cruise, but it would sure would help !!LOL

stevensuf 27-08-2013 01:39

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
I'm 41 and my other half is 35 , in the last year and a half cruising we only met one couple younger than us, most were in their 50s-60s with a few in their 70's.

smaarch 27-08-2013 03:55

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by avb3 (Post 1323244)

It does come down to choices it doesn't it?

perhaps....and perhaps it is a combination of choices and opportunity. the variable being opportunity.

Catalpa1 27-08-2013 04:31

Yeah, we have been live aboard cruising for 3 years now and are still to meet anyone younger than us, but I have heard they are out there.

Biggest thing that p!$$&s us off are a very few of the older cruisers that like to tell us we should be doing the "normal" thing with the house, car and the rest of the crap that is socially acceptable. Even had one couple tell us we haven't paid our debt to society. Had a good laugh at that one!!!

thomm225 27-08-2013 04:34

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
This family started out right here on CF with questions about moving aboard a boat etc. Long story short they bought a catamaran and ended up anchored near Key West at first. They ran into lots of young folks living very cheaply aboard old boats.

Boat Punks:

The Life Nomadik | Chronicles of a Lunatic Voyage

Boatguy30 27-08-2013 04:41

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
"I could Always stop and get a job"

There was actually some mention of this hippie travel notion on Bill Moyers a few weeks ago. It used to be the crap service jobs are the one no one wanted so it was easy to pick up a waiting or cleaning job in a big city for a short time.

today those are the only jobs in many places so if you were to turn broke in the next town, you'd be putting in your application with 100s of others for that same crap job.

cruise 27-08-2013 05:12

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
I think I am the youngest on the forum at only 20 with own my own boat. its a bit difficult to get some of you old blokes to take someone like me seriously sometimes but I live with it.

avb3 27-08-2013 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by smaarch (Post 1323337)

perhaps....and perhaps it is a combination of choices and opportunity. the variable being opportunity.

Some create their own opportunity. Here's some sites you can pass on to those 25 year olds which they may want to consider if they want to earn some money. The variable is they have to work very hard. My nephew worked in a number of different countries including Scotland at one point. As I pointed out earlier, even though he had is aeronautical engineering degree, he did not immediately get work. In fact he worked for over 2 years planting trees before he got a job in his field. He did not give up.

He was 25 when he graduated. Same age as the two individuals you reference.

Choices. :)

tree-planter.com

https://hardcoretreeplanters.com/treeplanting-jobs.html

rebel heart 27-08-2013 06:49

Re: Young Yachties-Sail article
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boatguy30 (Post 1319560)
I don't think there is much of an increase. I'm 35 and I did a pacific crossing 8 years ago. There were a few young crews then and a few now. Most are on short term less than one year trips. Did not see the article, but there are always some out there.

I'm 35 right now, and it's definitely 95% a senior citizen's convention on the water. The idea that there are "a lot" of young people on the water, and by young we're saying under 50, is nuts.


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