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-   -   Keeping Watch at Night ? (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/keeping-watch-at-night-109186.html)

denverd0n 12-08-2013 05:21

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wkstar (Post 1308730)
Maybe I am ahead of the curve...

Ahead of the curve!?! Wow. I always appreciate a good laugh, so I guess I owe you a hearty "thank you."

You don't even know where the curve is. Seriously. You need to get a clue. I can only hope to God that this is all hypothetical for you, and that you don't actually ever go out on any real boats (which I strongly suspect is the case).

boatman61 12-08-2013 05:46

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
Regarding collisions at sea... the blame is 50/50... as at least 1 should be capable of taking evasive action... or neither...:p
As for Watch keeping... on deliveries with crew I do 3hr night watches for crew in open waters... something like the Torres Strait I'll stay up the whole time and catch up the other end.. when in open water again.. not unknown for me to come up and find the crew asleep...:D
Solo... I reef down at sunset and around midnight I'll crash if on a crossing... (drinking 15+ mugs of coffee a day means I pee a lot... so I get up and go on deck regularly)... if offshore... 10+ miles out I'll heave to around midnight and crash... my only danger should be containers and logs or another solo sailor... but... having said that I have been T-Boned 5 miles of the coast by a boat motor sailing at 6kts with 4 crew on board... they were all below having cheese and wine... I was drifting and down below making cheese and toast...
Conclusion... CHEESE IS DANGEROUS...:banghead:
And yes... I do know the ColReg's...:whistling:

goboatingnow 12-08-2013 05:52

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
Quote:

Maybe I am ahead of the curve, But Today we have Self-Driving Cars with NO person inside
Ten years ago noone would believe
no we dont, we have research programmes thats very different. The car hasnt fundementally changed since its introduction.

Quote:

In the 1990's I would travel to rural Hospitals for work and ask about Internet and was told they had Dial-Up to a town 100 miles away
Today the same now transmit their own high speed WIFI
so?
Quote:

I will now say that in 2025, People will Laugh at the Idea of staying up all night worried about some ocean crash
Airplanes have AIS & autopilot and they are not running into each other
funny they have two people at all times in the cockpit, neither is allowed to sleep.

Quote:

When the rule is that any boat out past the sight of land Must have ( %%%%% ) to prevent collisions
The seas will be safer
no technology will save humans from themselves.

MarkJ 12-08-2013 05:52

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wkstar (Post 1308663)
a 20+ day prisoner of war No sleep torture test

Yes 3 hour watches make it a torture. The CIA et al, use sleep deprivation as a torture. Its banned by the Geniva Convention and only sailors are stupid enough to do it... and even then not naval sailors or commercial sailors only cruising sail boat folks.

My 2 handed watch system is as follows:

0000-0400
0400-0800
0800-1300
1300-1900
1900-2400

person on watch cooks.

We have always arrived fresh as a daisy with that watch system :)


Mark

colemj 12-08-2013 05:54

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
On a recent passage from Panama to Roatan, we encountered a catamaran in the afternoon in the middle of nowhere on a perpendicular collision course to us. I watched it from several miles off as we slowly sailed toward a perfect T-bone and it was clear there was no one at the helm or on deck at all. As we approached it, I kept course until we sailed right up to it, ducked underneath just before the T-bone and passed 20' under its stern. I could see right into the whole open saloon and there was no one in sight inside. Must have been down in the hull.

I don't know the probability of colliding with another small boat outside of shipping lanes and in the middle of nothing, but the odds were with us that time.

Luckily, one of us is always awake and on deck.

Mark

MarkJ 12-08-2013 06:00

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow (Post 1308940)
funny they have two people at all times in the cockpit, neither is allowed to sleep.

But can pilots really see out of the cockpit at all in flight. Certainly not enough to keep a visual watch for other planes?

boatman61 12-08-2013 06:02

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by colemj (Post 1308942)
On a recent passage from Panama to Roatan, we encountered a catamaran in the afternoon in the middle of nowhere on a perpendicular collision course to us. I watched it from several miles off as we slowly sailed toward a perfect T-bone and it was clear there was no one at the helm or on deck at all. As we approached it, I kept course until we sailed right up to it, ducked underneath just before the T-bone and passed 20' under its stern. I could see right into the whole open saloon and there was no one in sight inside. Must have been down in the hull.

I don't know the probability of colliding with another small boat outside of shipping lanes and in the middle of nothing, but the odds were with us that time.

Luckily, one of us is always awake and on deck.

Mark

You could well have also missed a great salvage claim.. always check an apparently un manned vessel...:whistling:
Have come up on deck a couple of times in response to 'Hoot's' while hove to offshore to find a fishing boat circling me... big cheers and waves when they saw me then they carried of on their way... there's good men out there...

skipmac 12-08-2013 06:08

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by o_q (Post 1308689)
Are the chances of collision any less when not moving?

Not really. The reason for heaving to is to make the boat stop rolling around. A sailboat at sea with no sails up will toss you about the cabin and make it a lot more difficult to get any sleep.

skipmac 12-08-2013 06:17

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wkstar (Post 1308730)
Thanks svmariane
Maybe I am ahead of the curve, But Today we have Self-Driving Cars with NO person inside
Ten years ago noone would believe

In the 1990's I would travel to rural Hospitals for work and ask about Internet and was told they had Dial-Up to a town 100 miles away
Today the same now transmit their own high speed WIFI

I will now say that in 2025, People will Laugh at the Idea of staying up all night worried about some ocean crash
Airplanes have AIS & autopilot and they are not running into each other

When the rule is that any boat out past the sight of land Must have ( %%%%% ) to prevent collisions
The seas will be safer

The problem is, this is not 2025 and there is currently no foolproof way to 100% eliminate the potential for collision at sea. All boats don't use AIS and small boats don't always show up well on radar, especially a wood or fiberglass sailboat with no radar reflector in rough seas.

So with technology where it is today I stick with my original analysis; it's Russian Roulette.



Quote:

Originally Posted by wkstar (Post 1308730)
The ship in active motion should be the one most in need of active watch

As pointed out in other replies, you need to study the Colregs (Collision Regulations). First, any vessel at sea, in motion or not, is required to keep a watch and if a collision occurs both vessels usually share the blame. A vessel with no one on watch would likely bear a larger share depending on the circumstances.

skipmac 12-08-2013 06:20

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by monte (Post 1308782)
interestingly, the start of the vende globe solo round the world race had 3 yacht collisions in the first 3 days. 2 with fishing vessels and one with a stray super buoy. The professional sailors were all asleep at the time and all had the latest electronic bells and whistles.

:thumb:

skipmac 12-08-2013 06:29

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenomac (Post 1308793)
Expanding on my previous note, yesterday morning about 6am, just as the sun was coming us we found ourselves heading towards some knucklehead who was obviously doing as the OP has described. We took evassive action to avoid a head-on collision with his or her 40ft sailboat four miles off Formentera which had it's sails set in a hove-to arrangement while sailing on a broad reach.

I have had two similar incidents. One about 100 miles south of the Windward Passage miles from shipping lanes so an area where the OP might be asleep. If I hadn't been standing a close watch I would have had a head on collision with another sailboat in the middle of the night. They were sailing with no nav lights and no one on deck. Dead dark night and I just barely saw a dim white shadow of his sails in time to alter course.

The second time was broad daylight about 4 miles off Delaware Bay. I was headed south in a crossing with another sailboat headed offshore. I was stbd tack so standon but as our courses converged it was obvious the other guy was not altering his course. I changed to avoid collision and passed a couple hundred feet off his stern to see the cockpit empty and could see the wheel turning to an AP.

thomm225 12-08-2013 06:30

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
The simple answer is that if you are singehanding there will be hours at a time when no one is on watch. But the sailor can pick his spots and if you are older, you do have to get up every couple hours for a urinary break at which time you can check on everything as you would when anchored..

I was anchored not long ago out in the boonies.................it was very dark and my anchor light had gone out. I awoke to an outboard engine at 3/4-full throttle coming by then noticed my light was out. He was headed to his favorite fishing spot and was using land contour to guide on not knowing there was a 6600 lb sailboat near his path.

rebel heart 12-08-2013 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenomac (Post 1308793)
Expanding on my previous note, yesterday morning about 6am, just as the sun was coming us we found ourselves heading towards some knucklehead who was obviously doing as the OP has described. We took evassive action to avoid a head-on collision with his or her 40ft sailboat four miles off Formentera which had it's sails set in a hove-to arrangement while sailing on a broad reach. What caught our attention, was that the vessel did not appear on our radar screen (it needed a minor adjustment) and no... it was not transmitting AIS and neither were we, and nobody was on deck. But we were on deck keeping watch and able to avoid the other boat. He probably went to bed at the tail end of a long passage and set his boat up in a hove to but apparently left his auto pilot on, so now his boat was continuing to sail towards the island at about 2-3 knots with a back winded genoa.

Eventually his luck will run out... hopefully, he woke up before running into the island which also wasn't broadcasting AIS.

In my sleeping underway defense, 4 miles from shore I'd be up and alert. That's sort of my thing: get as much rest as you can so that when you need to be up you are.

zeehag 12-08-2013 06:45

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
i have been shorthanding a bit of time, now---i found that during some passages one sees many many ships and some days none at all, in same area... i have seen , in our path, unlit powerboats with no one in cockpit or on interior watch, bearing down on us fast---in total darkness all you can hear to avoid collision is ears--hearing is a big plus--you cannot hear when asleep in cabin....nor react fast enough to prevent a collision with this kind of thing occurring.
if you do not catnap you are endangring self and others..make sure your area horizon to horizon all around is clear then do a 15 min catnap.

4 hour watches are ok for a specific duration, then become sleep deprivation.
with the equipment i have on board and my specific handling ase with my boat, there is no need to four hour watches--i can do 12. i also make sure th e soul on watch is watching--if that soul is sleeping i will remain above on watch. it is my boat and my responsibility, not to mention my home, and my cats home.
someone i know does passages while sleeping beow--i think he is nutz. engine fail, sail fail, equipment fail all happen. whether you sleep or stay awake. can be dangerous.
watching in cockpit is not difficult--snoozing in cockpit is preferable to going below to sleeep the sleep of the dead--stuff happens, sorry to say.
one of my favorites is the soul who set his gps for a surfing side trip and then slept the sleep of the dead only to lose his boat on beach in mexico.

i stay 4 hours or more off beach, no less...just in case..

it is your choice---be proven wrong in a court of law should you survive the accident or be the accident waiting to happen--it still happens...often enough to remain on watch, as per regulations and common sense.
dont fool yourself onto thinking equipment is gonna save your life--lol... your own eyes and ears will do that.

goboatingnow 12-08-2013 06:46

Re: Keeping Watch at Night ?
 
Quote:

person on watch cooks.
huh, whats happening when you're head is in the galley?

dave


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