Cruisers & Sailing Forums (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/)
-   General Sailing Forum (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/)
-   -   Blue Water Boats ........Again. (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/blue-water-boats-again-106273.html)

thomm225 24-06-2013 06:49

Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
I was looking at the Mahina Site (the boat list) again and noticed for example the Islander 36 wasn't on it. Nor were some of the smaller Tartans, and no Hunters at all yet all the Cape Dory boats above 30' are included and the Bristols from 27' and above.

I saw a post on the Luder 33 not long ago that said those type boats (classic full keel Cape Dory, Bristol, Contessa 26) are just better for ocean cruising. Is this a true statement?

Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

letsgetsailing3 24-06-2013 07:36

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
I think you have to consider your anticipated use of a boat against the boat build and age, and determine what best meets YOUR needs.

I find that these lists provide some useful information, but using them as a litmus test for a boat is probably a bad idea.

Some more lightly built boats will be fine for offshore work (particularly if you strengthen some components of the boat), and some boats on this list will likely no longer make the cut due to aging components and defects from lack of maintenance over time.

I get the impression that some use this list as a security blanket, when it should more appropriately be used in developing an approach to better analyzing one's needs.

letsgetsailing3 24-06-2013 07:38

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
But if you reword the question a bit, and ask if full keel boats are better than more modern designs of keels for bluewater cruising, I'd be interested in hearing what the community thinks.

thomm225 24-06-2013 07:55

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 (Post 1268810)
But if you reword the question a bit, and ask if full keel boats are better than more modern designs of keels for bluewater cruising, I'd be interested in hearing what the community thinks.

I'm not just talking the keels, I'm talking the whole design to include the narrowness of the boat and the overhangs etc....

Plus the old boats are overbuilt. Say you are sailing solo and while asleep you hit something. Maybe the older overbuilt design could survive. For example, did Steven Callahan build his boat to lightly since he was racing?

Steven Callahan : People.com

Adrift: Seventy-six Days Lost at Sea: Steven Callahan: 0046442257329: Amazon.com: Books

Blue Crab 24-06-2013 08:44

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225 (Post 1268827)
I'm not just talking the keels, I'm talking the whole design to include the narrowness of the boat and the overhangs etc....

Plus the old boats are overbuilt. Say you are sailing solo and while asleep you hit something. Maybe the older overbuilt design could survive...?

Time marches on. This has been well-discussed with the consensus being about split as I recall.

The modern view is that one should NEVER be asleep at the wheel. That said, the electronics should save you. Why hit a container when your forward-looking sonar reaches out 1000 ft? Radar is covering the above-water scene. Then yer got yer AIS, yer SAT stuff, and yer LSMFT.

So the modern boat is safer by far than the slower, older tanker. I personally like the older heavy full keel boats I grew up with but it's way more fun on a faster fin keeler. They tack right now, and save time and miles to weather.

Suijin 24-06-2013 08:59

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Everything is relative and everything is a compromise. A full keel boat on a long blue water passage is going to be, all things being equal, more comfortable because of the easy motion of the boat...the bow of most fin keelers is rounder, with less wetted surface and can pound mercilessly in a seaway. Her rudder is also protected by and supported by the hull along it's entire length. But she is also going to be considerably slower and less agile.

There are many modern blue water boats that are not full keel, so that is not the be all and end all of blue water boat design by any stretch.

Here's another interesting resource for you to look at. I think in the end a boat's blue water credentials are defined by a combination of the fitness of her construction and the purpose of her design. Catalina's were never designed (until the 47) to be blue water boats, and so were generally not built to be blue water boats. But I would bet that more Catalina's have circled the globe than any other sailboat for the simple fact that there are so many of them and they are affordable.

https://bluewaterboats.org

letsgetsailing3 24-06-2013 09:04

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225 (Post 1268827)
I'm not just talking the keels, I'm talking the whole design to include the narrowness of the boat and the overhangs etc....

Plus the old boats are overbuilt. Say you are sailing solo and while asleep you hit something. Maybe the older overbuilt design could survive.


Is that REALLY how you want to make your decision on boat purchase? I'd say there are a lot of other things that you'll encounter first.

Perhaps better electronics would help. Or getting another crew member to help keep watch when you're crossing oceans.

I thought the Keel part of your question was interesting. The "I need a thicker hull in case I hit a container", that's just one factor. It's a consideration, but EPIRB and a good liferaft are likely a better investment, along with knowing what to do if your hull gets a hole in it.

I think it's an interesting question, because there are many who have the same one, as they try and select a boat for cruising the Caribbean.

If you're crossing the ocean single handed, maybe you want a boat on the Mahina list, and spend the money for a good refit. For everyone else, my point was to consider what features are most important for your needs.

thomm225 24-06-2013 09:55

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Crab (Post 1268871)
The modern view is that one should NEVER be asleep at the wheel. That said, the electronics should save you. Why hit a container when your forward-looking sonar reaches out 1000 ft? Radar is covering the above-water scene. Then yer got yer AIS, yer SAT stuff, and yer LSMFT.

So the modern boat is safer by far than the slower, older tanker. I personally like the older heavy full keel boats I grew up with but it's way more fun on a faster fin keeler. They tack right now, and save time and miles to weather.

So as a singlehander when are you suppose to sleep when you are sailing say to Bermuda? You have to sleep which I think some folks forget.

And you say " So the modern boat is safer by far than the slower, older tanker. " But you gave no reason to support this assertion.

During the Singlehanded Transpac Race (SHTP) from San Francisco to Hawaii all sorts of interesting ways to sleep aboard (while sailing at full speed) have been developed.

thomm225 24-06-2013 10:08

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 (Post 1268889)
Is that REALLY how you want to make your decision on boat purchase? I'd say there are a lot of other things that you'll encounter first.

Perhaps better electronics would help. Or getting another crew member to help keep watch when you're crossing oceans.

I thought the Keel part of your question was interesting. The "I need a thicker hull in case I hit a container", that's just one factor. It's a consideration, but EPIRB and a good liferaft are likely a better investment, along with knowing what to do if your hull gets a hole in it.

I think it's an interesting question, because there are many who have the same one, as they try and select a boat for cruising the Caribbean.

If you're crossing the ocean single handed, maybe you want a boat on the Mahina list, and spend the money for a good refit. For everyone else, my point was to consider what features are most important for your needs.

I already purchased a boat from the Mahina List (it was actually Atom Voyages but samey same in many ways) for $2,000. I bought it to train me on monohulls as compared to small racing catamarans, but the more I sail it the more it appears it will do just about anything I need it to. And folks talk about other monohulls being "fast?" which mean it might be 60-90seconds faster per mile than my old slow boat if the skipper knows what he is doing.

As far as electronics, I'd rather go less than more (except the AIS if sailing offshore). And the Epirb, liferaft and so forth are a given for offahore sailing. I bought the book "The Barefoot Navigator " instead of a better GPS for example.

sailorboy1 24-06-2013 10:14

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225 (Post 1268772)
I was looking at the Mahina Site (the boat list) again and noticed for example the Islander 36 wasn't on it. Nor were some of the smaller Tartans, and no Hunters at all yet all the Cape Dory boats above 30' are included and the Bristols from 27' and above.

I saw a post on the Luder 33 not long ago that said those type boats (classic full keel Cape Dory, Bristol, Contessa 26) are just better for ocean cruising. Is this a true statement?

Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

If that is all you noticed about the list you aren't thinking about it too much.

thomm225 24-06-2013 10:21

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don L (Post 1268939)
If that is all you noticed about the list you aren't thinking about it too much.

You are correct, I should have already known Hunters wouldn't be on there............just kidding. Actually, I'm looking at an Islander 36 and a 11.0 S2 and was just thinking how I see them as nice boats but when I see an Alberg 37 or a Bristol 32 all fixed up looking good, I really like those boats! (even though that Bristol 32 only has a 22' waterline for example)

DefinitelyMe 24-06-2013 10:31

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
If the question here is 'which boats are most seaworthy' - which is not quite the same question as 'which make better blue-water crusing boats - then i think it's pretty clear cut that the older, narrower-beamed, full-keel boats have it. The argument about electronics is not valid because 1) there's nothing to stop you installing those electronics on an older boat and 2) lets face it, most of us don't have the forward-facing 1000-foot sonar that you speak of.

I can think of three advantages that newer boats have over older ones:

1) They are more maneuverable (due to lower wetted-surface area, higher boat speed and a center of lateral resistance that is further forward), allowing you to maneuver more effectively in heavy weather or to avoid a floating obstacle.

2) They tend to be faster, allowing you to make a passage faster and avoid bad weather

3) If you have no operational engine and are on a lee shore, you have a better chance of being able to beat to weather.

The advantages of an older, heavier boat with a full keel are extensive however:

1) Centre of effort is further aft, so they track better, are much more kindly on the helm in a following sea and hove-to easily.

2) They are more heavily-built, and will therefore withstand a collision better (and are moving more slowly to begin with).

3) The heavier displacement, narrower beam and less-flat bottom tends to make for a more comfortable movement and less slamming in a heavy sea.

4) The angle of vanishing stability - something that is quite important in my opinion - often approaches angles near 160 or 170 degrees, meaning that in a heavy breaking sea the chances of being stable while inverted are very small indeed. These boats tend to roll through 360-degrees and come up again on the other side (albeit often without their masts remaining intact). This is due largely to the large ballast / displacement ratio, the narrow beam and the presence of a deck house. Compared to a light-displacement modern fin-keel boat, this is much safer. Some of the modern boats barely make 90-degrees. To take things to their extreme, consider a J24 (not a cruiser by any stretch of the imagination, but a good example of what happens when you go too far with the characteristics that are typical of modern designs). I've sunk 2 of them............

5) The shallower draft tends to make these boats slide down the sides of large waves rather than being tossed on their beam-ends violently and potentially rolling.

I'm sure there are others that you can think of.

Having said all this, i don't have an old, full-keel, heavy-displacement boat and i'm quite happy with mine!

Cheechako 24-06-2013 10:33

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
a protected rudder is best... but that doesnt mean necessary. I have seen quite a few damaged spade rudders, mostly bent shafts from grounding. But one has to weigh that against the short waterlines and narrow beam of the older boats. By my way of thinking, a person should focus on a boat of a certain Waterline length... not overall length. So If you want a 30 foot boat, you may end up with a 36-38 old design or a 32 newer design....

letsgetsailing3 24-06-2013 10:36

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225 (Post 1268935)
I already purchased a boat from the Mahina List (it was actually Atom Voyages but samey same in many ways) for $2,000. I bought it to train me on monohulls as compared to small racing catamarans, but the more I sail it the more it appears it will do just about anything I need it to. And folks talk about other monohulls being "fast?" which mean it might be 60-90seconds faster per mile than my old slow boat if the skipper knows what he is doing.

As far as electronics, I'd rather go less than more (except the AIS if sailing offshore). And the Epirb, liferaft and so forth are a given for offahore sailing. I bought the book "The Barefoot Navigator " instead of a better GPS for example.

90 seconds a mile turns into an two hours and a half on a 100 mile day. So, well, that's something. That faster boat may well get the better anchorage, and be finished dinner by the time you arrive.

As for knowledge over a better gps, I'll go along with that.

But considering one boat "ideal for blue water cruising" because the hull is thicker or it has a full keel just isn't factoring a lot of elements into the equation. It depends on the need and the condition of the boats.

If one boat makes your heart thump a little louder than another, well, that's a different kind of need. And sailing is about 90% passion at the end of the day.

So I'd say go for the one you like, whether or not it's on someone else's list. Even the people who make those lists will tell you that.

thomm225 24-06-2013 10:40

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako (Post 1268957)
a protected rudder is best... but that doesnt mean necessary. I have seen quite a few damaged spade rudders, mostly bent shafts from grounding. But one has to weigh that against the short waterlines and narrow beam of the older boats. By my way of thinking, a person should focus on a boat of a certain Waterline length... not overall length. So If you want a 30 foot boat, you may end up with a 36-38 old design or a 32 newer design....

A 24'- 26' waterline seems to be able to handle a lot on the right boat. I believe the Contessa 32 has a 24' waterline (rounded Cape Horn) and the Alberg "Offshore" 37 has a 26' waterline.

David_Old_Jersey 24-06-2013 10:58

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
My feeling is that long distance voyaging is mainly a "run what ya brung" thing, or failing that a "run what ya can afford" thing.

and yer make yer choices and compromises around that. So unless you start off with a hobie cat or 7' pram dink likely anything can pretty much do the job - if "you" can.

and if "you" can't then don't really matter if the boat is 50' of whatever.

Mimsy 24-06-2013 11:06

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
When it comes to lists I think it bears remembering that the Mahina list for example, is just ONE person's list based on their preferences. If you speak with long distance sailors, you start to understand that everyone has their preferences and you need to figure out what your preferences are and whatworks for you.

Our boat was not on the Mahina list, but it just felt right and while there were a couple of design ideas that were not ideal (offset companionway, through deck chain plates) as a whole, there were more features that worked than didn't so we went for it.

Later, Evans Starzinger posted a list of boats which had circumnavigated and low and behold, our boat was on it. Turns out a couple of sister ships have gone around and had I relied solely on John Neale's opinion, I would have discounted it entirely. I would argue that Evans' opinions are every bit as valid as John's, they just have different preferences.

Cheechako 24-06-2013 11:26

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Yeah , no doubt about it, but it's kind of a "false" thing... the waterline derermines the room and speed to a large extent. Sailing my Rawson 30 in mexico (23 ft waterline), our friends had a Falmouth 22. The boats were pretty much identical in speed.

snort 24-06-2013 11:28

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
We need Bob Perry back here to chime in on this debate.

carstenb 24-06-2013 11:30

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
I haven't seen evans list, but if someone has a link, I'd like to. Pretty much most larger boats have mad it, so I'm not sure you use that information for anything. Almost all today's production boats, jennies, beneies, hunters, bavarias you name them, will circumnav without a problem if you do the correct mods to them (this is also true for the Halbergs and swan etc). Almost all the boats will have a problem if you ram a container or roll it 360.

Few actually run into those problems.

As someone said earlier, go look at boats, and when one makes your heart go thump thump a bit faster, you've probably found the right one
:viking:

thomm225 24-06-2013 12:27

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Some boats do better in bays etc than they would do in the ocean especially during a confused sea offshore.

A blunt or more straight up and down bow for example which can be found on a lighter weight racer/cruiser will probably not do as well as your heavier more narrow full keel boat offshore.

As far as the lists of Blue Water/Offshore Boats, they do give you a good idea and they seem to always have lots of full keel boats of the Alberg/Folkboat design. And many times, they do not pick one from a certain manufacturer of this type boat they simply say all.............or a large range. So why is that?

We are talking say a $5,000-$25,000 Full Keel Boat rated above a $125,000 say Catalina 35 for offshore.

boatman61 24-06-2013 12:49

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
[QUOTE=thomm225;1269039]As far as the lists of Blue Water/Offshore Boats, they do give you a good idea and they seem to always have lots of full keel boats of the Alberg/Folkboat design. And many times, they do not pick one from a certain manufacturer of this type boat they simply say all.............or a large range. So why is that?
QUOTE]

Likely because a lot/most of these lists were/are knocked up by old buga's who were sailing before the Production boats really kicked in... another reason is most are written by Americans..:D
Apart from Contessa's and Folkboats (great if you like Wet)... few if any other good Brit/French cruisers from the 60's-70's get mentioned...
Could it be because we just buy a boat and get on with it... not sit in Forums for years splitting hairs:popcorn:

sailorboy1 24-06-2013 12:55

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
the real issue is always that people who support the "lists" always just assume all of the people sailing around in the "other" boats are lairs who just don't know what they are doing and somehow are just lucky to get surviving :rolleyes:

letsgetsailing3 24-06-2013 13:32

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that people with a boat on the list hold the list in a lot higher esteem than people with a more modern boat that's not on the list.

Once they have a boat, however, I think they're usually more focused on getting their boat to support their cruising goals.

letsgetsailing3 24-06-2013 13:38

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225 (Post 1269039)

We are talking say a $5,000-$25,000 Full Keel Boat rated above a $125,000 say Catalina 35 for offshore.

I'm going to guess that a $125K Catalina 35 is generally more seaworthy and comfortable than a $5K boat for offshore work.

Mystic38 24-06-2013 14:28

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
I am going to guess that any $125k boat is better than any $5k boat for pretty much anything :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 (Post 1269074)
I'm going to guess that a $125K Catalina 35 is generally more seaworthy and comfortable than a $5K boat for offshore work.


thomm225 24-06-2013 14:39

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 (Post 1269074)
I'm going to guess that a $125K Catalina 35 is generally more seaworthy and comfortable than a $5K boat for offshore work.

There you go guessing again! Before you were worried about getting to your anchorage an hour or so ahead of the full keel boat so you could get the best spot to anchor and cook dinner because your boat was 60-90 seconds faster per mile.

I don't know about you but my inventory doesn't include the line and chain needed to anchor in mile deep water. As for dinner, set the autopilot and open your can of sardines and a coke and go for it. You can have dinner first!

I'm starting to worry about the advice newbies receive on here. One guy says you can NEVER sleep while sailing. We better let Joshua Slocum, Robin Lee Graham, Tania Aebi, Zac Sunderland and the others know that you can't sleep while sailing offshore.

Boats are pretty much the same if you fix'm up. NOT!

Let me give a small example from inshore racing: I was in a catamaran race (one of 150 or so) on a NACRA 6.0. This was the sea buoy race in Pensacola. A strong southeast wind had been blowing for several days but on this day it decided to lay down to around 5-8 knots. The race is about 20 miles, 6 of which are in the gulf.

The wind had laid down but the waves had not and the pass (to the gulf)had steep waves say nearing 8'. The NACRA 6.0 has a blunt total vertical bow and straight hulls and is usually a monster boat but on this day the waves were causing it to pound heavily and it couldn't generate speed to break through the large waves properly.

But the Hobie 16s (that came later) with their rocker bows and similar sterns just cruised over the waves as if it were nothing at all. Needless to say, the Hobie 16s easily won the top spots that day (on corrected time) on that race due to their design!

Hummm, come to think of it the Hobie 16 is similar to those full keel boats in there rocker bows etc.

Sunday I sailed along the coast here toward the west. There was a southwest wind. A couple 35'-40' boats had motored out and were already on their way west by the time I got out the creek under sail. They were about 700 yards ahead at that time. I noticed they were sailing pretty close to shore as they normally do so just for fun, I tried to catch them on my 27' Bristol with it's 19 ' waterline. I caught them in a few miles. You see the wind was an offshore wind and usually it rises some coming of the land so the boats offshore say about a mile or so get the better wind. No they weren't racing but you can see the point.

sailorboy1 24-06-2013 14:46

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225 (Post 1269117)
As for dinner, set the autopilot and open your can of sardines and a coke and go for it. You can have dinner first!


Well I'm glad to not have a "listed" boat now if this is what I should look forward to for dinner by having one. :rolleyes:

I always wonder why other people are so concerned about the boat choices others make for themselves. I personally don't care what boat someone else has!

thomm225 24-06-2013 14:56

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don L (Post 1269125)
Well I'm glad to not have a "listed" boat now if this is what I should look forward to for dinner by having one. :rolleyes:

I always wonder why other people are so concerned about the boat choices others make for themselves. I personally don't care what boat someone else has!

Just an example of dinner, maybe it's rum until you are near passed out then fried potatoes and onions............

Btw, this thread isn't about choices others make it's about Blue Water Boats....again. Being a Hunter owner you need to worry about speed to your best anchorage and that dinner and "whatnot" (thanks for the vocabulary help Carl Childers)

sailorboy1 24-06-2013 15:08

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225 (Post 1269134)
Btw, this thread isn't about choices others make it's about Blue Water Boats....again. Being a Hunter owner you need to worry about speed to your best anchorage and that dinner and "whatnot" (thanks for the vocabulary help Carl Childers)


This just shows what you don't know! When sailing my boat I don't worry about anything for the most part because I don't need to to.

If you think think you are better off in your little bristol or whatever than in my 43' Hunter you must have taken too many boom hits to your head!

thomm225 24-06-2013 15:51

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don L (Post 1269143)
This just shows what you don't know! When sailing my boat I don't worry about anything for the most part because I don't need to to.

If you think think you are better off in your little bristol or whatever than in my 43' Hunter you must have taken too many boom hits to your head!

So, are you saying you are clueless?

Oops, looks like we are getting into the size argument.

I'm wondering what adjustments you would make in these conditions as far as mast rake, sail draft, downhaul, and sheeting are concerned to make your boat (oops your 43' boat) go faster.

I think you are misunderstanding sailing vs how you look at the dock.

I started racing catamarans with Hobie 16's, then to NACRA 6.0, then to a singlehanded F17 with high aspect ratio main, dagger boards, rudders and a spinnaker.

003 - YouTube

003 - YouTube

Btw, I reefed her on the fly from the mast, it was nice up there I must say.

sailorboy1 24-06-2013 16:31

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
gee ........................ I'm not impressed!

Mimsy 24-06-2013 16:42

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Found the list on another sire, c&p here-
"
8/30/09 Evans Starzinger has posted a list of boats on another forum which meet the criteria for inclusion here so I will add them below.
"The following boats are SSCA (full time cruising) and have sailed more that 5000nm offshore and are less than 40':

Norsea 27
Bristol Channel Cutter 28
Great Dane 28
Cascade 29
Cascade 29
Golden Gate 30
Cheoy Lee 31
Island Packet 31
Westerly 31
DeFever 32
Westsail 32
Prout 33
Skorpion 1000 33
Fantasia 35
Hallberg Rassy 35
Wauquiez Pretorien 35
Breckveldt 36
Catalina 36
Contest 36
Pearson 36
Vancouver 36
Duncanson 37
Flica 37
Pacific Seacraft 37
Prout Snowgoose 37
Tartan 37
Tayana 37
Ingrid Princess 38
Downeaster 38
Hunter Legend 38
Morgan 38
Rival 38
Shannon 38
C&C 39
Fairweather Mariner 39
Panda 39
Privilege 39

And 40-45':
Altenwerder 40
Angleman/Davies 40
Aventura 40
Joshua 40
Laurent Giles 40
Norseman 40
North America 40
Panda 40
Valiant 40
Cheoy Lee 41
CT-41 41
Custom 41
Hans Christian 41
Sceptre 41
Beneteau 42
Cat-Flotteur 42
Defiance 42
Discovery 42
Fairweather Seeker 42
Maple Leaf 42
Pearson 42
Perry 42
Slocum 42
Tatoosh 42
Tayana 42
Westsail 42
Whitby 42
Cape North 43
Hans Christian 43
Mason 43
Swan 43
Westsail 43
Antigua 44
Freedom 44
Hudson Sea Wolf 44
Hylas 44
Island Packet 44
Islander 44
LaFitte 44
Mason 44
Norseman 44
Peterson 44
Reliance 44
Seaton 44
Agulhas 45
Cantiere Navau 45"

Note that the only criteria here is bluewater miles and one may have other criteria in mind for a cruising boat. I suggest that Evans site, Beth and Evans Home Page is an excellent source for more in depth information and discussion."

thomm225 24-06-2013 16:47

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Hey Don, I'm not trying to impress you just trying to point out the differences in boats. I know Hunters are light and fast, but just because a boat is larger doesn't necessarily mean she will do better in a storm or offshore.

Example, these kids ages 18-25 survived the 1979 Fastnet Race on a rather small light weight Contessa 32. And even though they suffered several knockdowns, it didn't seem to bother them. It's an awesome story Don and I think you'd like it:

Fastnet 79 - The winner's story | Yachting World

sailorboy1 24-06-2013 16:51

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Still not impressed by another internet expert opinion based on reading some stories off the internet. The one thing that is common in all of them is that they all feel they know more about my boat than I do. But I didn't need a list to chose my boat, which I moved up to!

thomm225 24-06-2013 16:55

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimsy (Post 1269206)
Found the list on another sire, c&p here-
"
8/30/09 Evans Starzinger has posted a list of boats on another forum which meet the criteria for inclusion here so I will add them below.
"The following boats are SSCA (full time cruising) and have sailed more that 5000nm offshore and are less than 40':

Norsea 27
Bristol Channel Cutter 28
Great Dane 28
Cascade 29
Cascade 29
Golden Gate 30
Cheoy Lee 31
Island Packet 31
Westerly 31
DeFever 32
Westsail 32
Prout 33
Skorpion 1000 33
Fantasia 35
Hallberg Rassy 35
Wauquiez Pretorien 35
Breckveldt 36
Catalina 36
Contest 36
Pearson 36
Vancouver 36
Duncanson 37
Flica 37
Pacific Seacraft 37
Prout Snowgoose 37
Tartan 37
Tayana 37
Ingrid Princess 38
Downeaster 38
Hunter Legend 38
Morgan 38
Rival 38
Shannon 38
C&C 39
Fairweather Mariner 39
Panda 39
Privilege 39

And 40-45':
Altenwerder 40
Angleman/Davies 40
Aventura 40
Joshua 40
Laurent Giles 40
Norseman 40
North America 40
Panda 40
Valiant 40
Cheoy Lee 41
CT-41 41
Custom 41
Hans Christian 41
Sceptre 41
Beneteau 42
Cat-Flotteur 42
Defiance 42
Discovery 42
Fairweather Seeker 42
Maple Leaf 42
Pearson 42
Perry 42
Slocum 42
Tatoosh 42
Tayana 42
Westsail 42
Whitby 42
Cape North 43
Hans Christian 43
Mason 43
Swan 43
Westsail 43
Antigua 44
Freedom 44
Hudson Sea Wolf 44
Hylas 44
Island Packet 44
Islander 44
LaFitte 44
Mason 44
Norseman 44
Peterson 44
Reliance 44
Seaton 44
Agulhas 45
Cantiere Navau 45"

Note that the only criteria here is bluewater miles and one may have other criteria in mind for a cruising boat. I suggest that Evans site, Beth and Evans Home Page is an excellent source for more in depth information and discussion."

Looks like your boy forgot the Contessa 26 (2 circumnavs), the Contessa 32, rounded Cape Horn, and the Islander 36 which also circumnavigated. Is he talkin' wine and cheese cruising? (not mustard and biscuits,or hard tack and salt pork? ..............and don't forget the rum and beer for ballast)

thomm225 24-06-2013 17:09

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don L (Post 1269214)
Still not impressed by another internet expert opinion based on reading some stories off the internet. The one thing that is common in all of them is that they all feel they know more about my boat than I do. But I didn't need a list to chose my boat, which I moved up to!

What? Ah.............actually it was the kid (25 years old or so at that time) that was sailing in the race that wrote the article. Maybe you should go argue with your Hunter friends at the dock while you wash your boats thinking about your next sailing adventure along the creek there.

sailorboy1 24-06-2013 17:16

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Maybe you should ask your internet and list followers.

The only time I've spent at a dock in the last 6 years is at the start of the season after boat launches. You need a better line that proves your expertise, not something you have read to say the facts are wrong.

Blue Crab 24-06-2013 17:18

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225 (Post 1268944)
You are correct, I should have already known Hunters wouldn't be on there............


Good one. My post was poorly written. I wasn't offering my view but was summarizing a bunch of threads in the recent past on these questions.

Great post DM! Again, kind of a summary of these many GREAT discussions.

Paul Elliott 24-06-2013 17:20

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Gentlemen! You can't fight here, this is the War Room!

Bashing someone else's boat is never going to win friends or influence people. I think these lists are useful for discussion, but there will always be plenty of perfectly capable boats that don't make the list. And most boats have what it takes to take you where you want to go. It's only at the extremes of design, or conditions, where we might have problems.

Slocum's Spray wouldn't have made anybody's modern list, but he sure sailed the sh!t out of it! (and yes, it probably sank from under him, but any boat can spring a leak)


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:33.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.