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-   -   Blue Water Boats ........Again. (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/blue-water-boats-again-106273.html)

David_Old_Jersey 24-06-2013 10:58

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
My feeling is that long distance voyaging is mainly a "run what ya brung" thing, or failing that a "run what ya can afford" thing.

and yer make yer choices and compromises around that. So unless you start off with a hobie cat or 7' pram dink likely anything can pretty much do the job - if "you" can.

and if "you" can't then don't really matter if the boat is 50' of whatever.

Mimsy 24-06-2013 11:06

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
When it comes to lists I think it bears remembering that the Mahina list for example, is just ONE person's list based on their preferences. If you speak with long distance sailors, you start to understand that everyone has their preferences and you need to figure out what your preferences are and whatworks for you.

Our boat was not on the Mahina list, but it just felt right and while there were a couple of design ideas that were not ideal (offset companionway, through deck chain plates) as a whole, there were more features that worked than didn't so we went for it.

Later, Evans Starzinger posted a list of boats which had circumnavigated and low and behold, our boat was on it. Turns out a couple of sister ships have gone around and had I relied solely on John Neale's opinion, I would have discounted it entirely. I would argue that Evans' opinions are every bit as valid as John's, they just have different preferences.

Cheechako 24-06-2013 11:26

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Yeah , no doubt about it, but it's kind of a "false" thing... the waterline derermines the room and speed to a large extent. Sailing my Rawson 30 in mexico (23 ft waterline), our friends had a Falmouth 22. The boats were pretty much identical in speed.

snort 24-06-2013 11:28

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
We need Bob Perry back here to chime in on this debate.

carstenb 24-06-2013 11:30

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
I haven't seen evans list, but if someone has a link, I'd like to. Pretty much most larger boats have mad it, so I'm not sure you use that information for anything. Almost all today's production boats, jennies, beneies, hunters, bavarias you name them, will circumnav without a problem if you do the correct mods to them (this is also true for the Halbergs and swan etc). Almost all the boats will have a problem if you ram a container or roll it 360.

Few actually run into those problems.

As someone said earlier, go look at boats, and when one makes your heart go thump thump a bit faster, you've probably found the right one
:viking:

thomm225 24-06-2013 12:27

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Some boats do better in bays etc than they would do in the ocean especially during a confused sea offshore.

A blunt or more straight up and down bow for example which can be found on a lighter weight racer/cruiser will probably not do as well as your heavier more narrow full keel boat offshore.

As far as the lists of Blue Water/Offshore Boats, they do give you a good idea and they seem to always have lots of full keel boats of the Alberg/Folkboat design. And many times, they do not pick one from a certain manufacturer of this type boat they simply say all.............or a large range. So why is that?

We are talking say a $5,000-$25,000 Full Keel Boat rated above a $125,000 say Catalina 35 for offshore.

boatman61 24-06-2013 12:49

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
[QUOTE=thomm225;1269039]As far as the lists of Blue Water/Offshore Boats, they do give you a good idea and they seem to always have lots of full keel boats of the Alberg/Folkboat design. And many times, they do not pick one from a certain manufacturer of this type boat they simply say all.............or a large range. So why is that?
QUOTE]

Likely because a lot/most of these lists were/are knocked up by old buga's who were sailing before the Production boats really kicked in... another reason is most are written by Americans..:D
Apart from Contessa's and Folkboats (great if you like Wet)... few if any other good Brit/French cruisers from the 60's-70's get mentioned...
Could it be because we just buy a boat and get on with it... not sit in Forums for years splitting hairs:popcorn:

sailorboy1 24-06-2013 12:55

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
the real issue is always that people who support the "lists" always just assume all of the people sailing around in the "other" boats are lairs who just don't know what they are doing and somehow are just lucky to get surviving :rolleyes:

letsgetsailing3 24-06-2013 13:32

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that people with a boat on the list hold the list in a lot higher esteem than people with a more modern boat that's not on the list.

Once they have a boat, however, I think they're usually more focused on getting their boat to support their cruising goals.

letsgetsailing3 24-06-2013 13:38

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225 (Post 1269039)

We are talking say a $5,000-$25,000 Full Keel Boat rated above a $125,000 say Catalina 35 for offshore.

I'm going to guess that a $125K Catalina 35 is generally more seaworthy and comfortable than a $5K boat for offshore work.

Mystic38 24-06-2013 14:28

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
I am going to guess that any $125k boat is better than any $5k boat for pretty much anything :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 (Post 1269074)
I'm going to guess that a $125K Catalina 35 is generally more seaworthy and comfortable than a $5K boat for offshore work.


thomm225 24-06-2013 14:39

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 (Post 1269074)
I'm going to guess that a $125K Catalina 35 is generally more seaworthy and comfortable than a $5K boat for offshore work.

There you go guessing again! Before you were worried about getting to your anchorage an hour or so ahead of the full keel boat so you could get the best spot to anchor and cook dinner because your boat was 60-90 seconds faster per mile.

I don't know about you but my inventory doesn't include the line and chain needed to anchor in mile deep water. As for dinner, set the autopilot and open your can of sardines and a coke and go for it. You can have dinner first!

I'm starting to worry about the advice newbies receive on here. One guy says you can NEVER sleep while sailing. We better let Joshua Slocum, Robin Lee Graham, Tania Aebi, Zac Sunderland and the others know that you can't sleep while sailing offshore.

Boats are pretty much the same if you fix'm up. NOT!

Let me give a small example from inshore racing: I was in a catamaran race (one of 150 or so) on a NACRA 6.0. This was the sea buoy race in Pensacola. A strong southeast wind had been blowing for several days but on this day it decided to lay down to around 5-8 knots. The race is about 20 miles, 6 of which are in the gulf.

The wind had laid down but the waves had not and the pass (to the gulf)had steep waves say nearing 8'. The NACRA 6.0 has a blunt total vertical bow and straight hulls and is usually a monster boat but on this day the waves were causing it to pound heavily and it couldn't generate speed to break through the large waves properly.

But the Hobie 16s (that came later) with their rocker bows and similar sterns just cruised over the waves as if it were nothing at all. Needless to say, the Hobie 16s easily won the top spots that day (on corrected time) on that race due to their design!

Hummm, come to think of it the Hobie 16 is similar to those full keel boats in there rocker bows etc.

Sunday I sailed along the coast here toward the west. There was a southwest wind. A couple 35'-40' boats had motored out and were already on their way west by the time I got out the creek under sail. They were about 700 yards ahead at that time. I noticed they were sailing pretty close to shore as they normally do so just for fun, I tried to catch them on my 27' Bristol with it's 19 ' waterline. I caught them in a few miles. You see the wind was an offshore wind and usually it rises some coming of the land so the boats offshore say about a mile or so get the better wind. No they weren't racing but you can see the point.

sailorboy1 24-06-2013 14:46

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225 (Post 1269117)
As for dinner, set the autopilot and open your can of sardines and a coke and go for it. You can have dinner first!


Well I'm glad to not have a "listed" boat now if this is what I should look forward to for dinner by having one. :rolleyes:

I always wonder why other people are so concerned about the boat choices others make for themselves. I personally don't care what boat someone else has!

thomm225 24-06-2013 14:56

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don L (Post 1269125)
Well I'm glad to not have a "listed" boat now if this is what I should look forward to for dinner by having one. :rolleyes:

I always wonder why other people are so concerned about the boat choices others make for themselves. I personally don't care what boat someone else has!

Just an example of dinner, maybe it's rum until you are near passed out then fried potatoes and onions............

Btw, this thread isn't about choices others make it's about Blue Water Boats....again. Being a Hunter owner you need to worry about speed to your best anchorage and that dinner and "whatnot" (thanks for the vocabulary help Carl Childers)

sailorboy1 24-06-2013 15:08

Re: Blue Water Boats ........Again.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thomm225 (Post 1269134)
Btw, this thread isn't about choices others make it's about Blue Water Boats....again. Being a Hunter owner you need to worry about speed to your best anchorage and that dinner and "whatnot" (thanks for the vocabulary help Carl Childers)


This just shows what you don't know! When sailing my boat I don't worry about anything for the most part because I don't need to to.

If you think think you are better off in your little bristol or whatever than in my 43' Hunter you must have taken too many boom hits to your head!


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