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rockborn 21-06-2013 03:12

Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
hi all. it seems ive got a bad head gasket or worse and before i disassemble i would like to weigh the options of a) rebuild the perkins 4154, b) repower with a yanmar, in which i would have to change my transmission and re-pitch my prop ,or c) i am told that if i repower with a cummins , my transmission will mount right up. Any suggestions ? Thanks

btrayfors 21-06-2013 04:58

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
The 4-154 is a very good engine, and there are folks around who have parts and rebuild and guarantee them.

The Yanmar's are also good engines...not as robust or long-lived as the Perkins...but very popular.

Seems to me it depends on whether you want to spend $3,000-5,000 for a rebuilt Perkins or $15,000-20,000 (all told) for a new Yanmar or Cummins.

Bill

djmarchand 21-06-2013 06:57

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
I would at least go as far as removing the head and looking at the condition of the cylinder bores. If they are not scored and you weren't burning a lot of oil and/or experiencing excessive blowby, then rebuild the head and put it back together.

David

zeehag 21-06-2013 07:11

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
rebuild and save money for cruising....perkins are good engines.

model 10 21-06-2013 12:21

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
I thought new engines came with a transmision? All you need to do is match the gear ratio and rotation.

rockborn 22-06-2013 05:34

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
thanks for the replies fellow sailors. i have gotten some prices , new head- 1800, head gasket- 450, water pump - 600. rebuild kit for lower end [short block]-2000.add the labor, in and out and to rebuild it will cost around 10,000. labor prices are high up here, 95/hr. havent got a price for cummins yet, not sure which engine is comparable or the yanmar. i am going to remove the head in any case and check out the cylinders . thanks

zeehag 22-06-2013 05:48

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
why not look at machining what you have and doing the rebuild --why go to new head--is it cracked/warped.befouled?? why increase your expenses

if you dont like perkins, send it to me,,,i will readily receive it--shipping is on you, as you didnt want it.....

sabray 22-06-2013 05:51

Cummins 4b3.3 is nearly a straight drop in for a 4-154. Remember though if you repower there will all sorts of bits you will probably replace.

allezaubon 22-06-2013 05:56

Hi Rockborn, we were faced with a similar dilemma and have just overhauled our Perkins 4154. We are happy went with this route and hope to have many more hours on the original. Spare parts are still readily available , I can recommend Trans Atlantic Diesel for quality of parts and service. Good luck

gjordan 22-06-2013 09:02

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
There is a fellow here on CF that rebuilds 4-154s for much less than $10000. A direct drop in replacement will save you much in labor costs. 4-154 is a great engine.___just my 2 cents worth.____Grant.

gjordan 22-06-2013 09:09

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Another little note. I have a friend that is a Cummins salesman, and he told me that the small Cummins engines are Japanese engines converted by Cummins. You might be buying a Yanmar,Isuzu,Mitsubishi,etc in disguise. Ask the dealer what the basic block is?___Just a thought.____Grant.

Cheechako 22-06-2013 09:30

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Yes, try our forum member or Foley Engine also.

wph36 08-07-2013 08:58

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
I've a seized 4-154 in my 82 Morgan 416. Would like the rebuild route, but don't have any idea of costs, and removing the engine looks impossible ...is it possible to do a rebuild (partial) still installed.

model 10 08-07-2013 09:20

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wph36 (Post 1280023)
I've a seized 4-154 in my 82 Morgan 416. Would like the rebuild route, but don't have any idea of costs, and removing the engine looks impossible ...is it possible to do a rebuild (partial) still installed.

Not really. You need to be able to remove the oil pan to do an ovhl of a seized Perkins. To bad it's not a tractor then you pull up under a tree and go to town on it.:)

Capt RonB 08-07-2013 09:40

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Anybody tried these guys? Seems like a good deal. Might give them a call and discuss it?
Results for Perkins | Pilot Engines

sabray 08-07-2013 11:49

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gjordan (Post 1267351)
Another little note. I have a friend that is a Cummins salesman, and he told me that the small Cummins engines are Japanese engines converted by Cummins. You might be buying a Yanmar,Isuzu,Mitsubishi,etc in disguise. Ask the dealer what the basic block is?___Just a thought.____Grant.

No. A cummins is Cummins. They use blocks that are cast to their spec by companys that specialize in casting. Then Cummins machines the rough casting to their tolerances. Transatlantic diesel is a suppier of marinized 4b3.3 as well as Perkins engines so its worth a call to them to look at the options. They do rebuilds as well.

gjordan 08-07-2013 19:38

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
I find it odd that a Cummins salesman that sells millions of dollars worth of Cummins every year, was mistaken when he told me that their smallest engines and generator sets were Japanese engines, and that they were trying to get away from the small engines. Maybe now they are all pure Cummins?????____Grant.

Boracay 08-07-2013 20:52

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Best to do some homework.

There has been some discussion here on starting seized diesels so a bit of research and some elbow grease may do the trick.

My opinion is that doing a major overhaul on a diesel can be a questionable undertaking. I may cost near as much as a new engine and reliability is never going to be as good.

I put in a John Deere 4045DFM. Nice engine but did need the Walbro FRB 22 lift pump I put in later.

You'll probably have to at least partially dismantle the Perkins to get it out and whatever you go with to get it in. Some homework with tape, pencil and paper is a good idea and making a dummy engine gearbox and engine from scrap may be necessary.

sabray 17-07-2013 12:16

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Originally Posted by gjordan https://cdn.cruisersforum.com/forums/...s/viewpost.gif
Another little note. I have a friend that is a Cummins salesman, and he told me that the small Cummins engines are Japanese engines converted by Cummins. You might be buying a Yanmar,Isuzu,Mitsubishi,etc in disguise. Ask the dealer what the basic block is?___Just a thought.____Grant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gjordan (Post 1280558)
I find it odd that a Cummins salesman that sells millions of dollars worth of Cummins every year, was mistaken when he told me that their smallest engines and generator sets were Japanese engines, and that they were trying to get away from the small engines. Maybe now they are all pure Cummins?????____Grant.

Really strange
This is from one of their SEC filings. SUPPLY
We have developed and maintain a world class supply base in terms of technology, quality and cost. We source our materials and manufactured components from leading suppliers both domestically and internationally. We have adequate sources of supply of raw materials and components. We machine and assemble some of the components used in our engines and power generation units, including blocks, heads, rods, turbochargers, camshafts, crankshafts, filters, exhaust systems, alternators and fuel systems.

No where Can I find that cummins is relabeling japanese engines. Though the source of the blocks could be a forge in Japan ,china, etc.....

roverhi 17-07-2013 13:01

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Putting in a different engine will involve a lot of extra work other than the engine. In a worst case it could necessitate a total rebuild of the engine beds. Shaft length could be an issue, rerouting the fuel and electrical connections, new instrument panel and wiring, etc. Even though a rebuild is expensive, it will probably turn out to be way cheaper than putting in a different engine.

Capt RonB's source looks to be good for the 4-18 or 4-236 but didn't see the 4-154.

Removing the head on your engine will reveal a lot about the condition of the engine. Could just need a valve job, new guides and resurfacing which wouldn't require pulling the engine and shouldn't cost much over a boat unit in machining costs. You could do the work yourself.

If it's just wear issues, new rings may be all that's needed but doubt that you could get off that easily. A rebore of the block, oversize pistons and replacing the bearings is more likely needed. If nothing is broken, worst case the crank would need grinding and oversize bearings. This wold involve pulling the engine. Rebuilding the injectors and injector pump wouldn't be a bad idea. In any case, should be able to get the engine rebuilt and back in the boat for well under $10,000.

sabray 17-07-2013 15:24

I replaced a 154 with cummins 4b3.3 maybe 5 years ago package cost 10,000 with a tranny. Fit on the beds without modification. Yes i replaced some hoses and wiring but i got all new everything. In my mind it was worth acouple extra thousand. Most of that stuff needed upgrade as well.

tassiedevil 05-03-2014 18:55

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Hi Rockborn, where did you source your replacement cylinder head?
I live in Tasmania, Australia and have had no luck sourcing a replacement for my 4-154 cracked head.
Does anyone else have a suggestion as to where I could find a replacement head?
Thanks very much if anyone can help.
Regards

Celestialsailor 05-03-2014 19:42

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Unlike the Perkins 4-108/ 4-107, parts for the 4-154 are very had to find and usually used. I helped my friend repower a few years ago for his KP-44. He found, on ebay, a Yanmar 4JHTE turbo 75hp. for around $4500. You might want to consider the same thing.

Cap Erict3 05-03-2014 19:58

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
OEM does Kubota marine conversions and offer a pretty decent price. I was calling around and speculating a replacement of my 4.154. It is a shame that the rebuild kits are so high. A fine engine to my mind.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

allezaubon 12-03-2014 03:50

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rockborn (Post 1266267)
hi all. it seems ive got a bad head gasket or worse and before i disassemble i would like to weigh the options of a) rebuild the perkins 4154, b) repower with a yanmar, in which i would have to change my transmission and re-pitch my prop ,or c) i am told that if i repower with a cummins , my transmission will mount right up. Any suggestions ? Thanks

Hi Rockborn,

we were in the same dilemma last year and we went the route of refurbishing - we found the following company to be a Godsend for parts and service. Yes the 4154 is over engineered and as such is worth giving anew lease of life.

please find below the contact details - you can find them on the web.


Sheri Moon
Trans Atlantic Diesel, Inc.
www.tad123.com
(T) 804-642-9296
(F) 804-642-0340

Good Luck

Andy

aboutgone 12-03-2014 04:26

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Im in the process of rebuilding mine. the best price for an overhaul kit was World wide parts. $ 1945.00 plus shipping included everything but the crank shaft. going to find a machine shop to do the long block and head, the rest of the Assembly i will do myself. I'm figuring about $4500 when done

jenny2 12-03-2014 04:58

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gjordan (Post 1267351)
Another little note. I have a friend that is a Cummins salesman, and he told me that the small Cummins engines are Japanese engines converted by Cummins. You might be buying a Yanmar,Isuzu,Mitsubishi,etc in disguise. Ask the dealer what the basic block is?___Just a thought.____Grant.

Small Cummins engines also made in Korea by Hyundai

rockborn 18-03-2014 16:52

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
hi, my mechanic got the rebuilt head from Foley , a caterpillar dealer in Massachusetts

oldcal46skipper 30-03-2014 07:11

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
I did a 4.154 re-man last year. Long block was $7,000 + shipping. I did not make very much profit as the re-man kit cost me $2,000, + machine shop + other hard to find parts + my labor. I have 2 rebuildable blocks, but will be $8,000 + shipping from 32507.
In my opinion, a re-man Perkins is far superior to a new Yanmar. Most Perkins 4.154's were built in Japan by Mazda for truck and industrial applications. Some parts interchange with the earlier marine engines built in the UK. I only use UK parts.

wph36 29-06-2014 19:07

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy (Post 1280052)
Not really. You need to be able to remove the oil pan to do an ovhl of a seized Perkins. To bad it's not a tractor then you pull up under a tree and go to town on it.:)

I've removed the head and suspect one of the pistons is stuck ...filled each of the cylinders with oil (and every other product I could find) and all but one of the cylinders eventually drains completely. My thought was to lift the engine off its mounts high enough to allow using a couple 2x 8 planks to support it, and then lay on its side. I could then remove the pan and get at the crank and pull the seized piston. Am I dreaming https://www.cruisersforum.com/images/icons/icon5.gif

richnjohn 30-06-2014 08:03

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Sorry, just a little off topic. I want to pull the oil sump drain plugs on my 4-154s and replace them with valves to make oil changing easier. Can someone tell me what size the drain plug is? I know I could pull it and see but I'd rather have all the parts ready rather than pulling the plug then going shopping.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

specter539 30-09-2016 10:08

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
RichnJohn,
This link is to the sump drain plug. Perkins Sump Drain Bolt

It looks to be 19mm or 3/4 inch. Pay attention to the thread style though.

Keelhauler 12-09-2018 13:30

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Gentlemen,

Just caught wind of this topic. I'm sure this issue has been resolved but future rag baggers may come across this, like me.

I too have a 4-154. Here is a great source for 154 parts.

https://www.parts4engines.com/perkins-4-154-parts/

Just make sure you know what series engine you have. Provide them your engine serial number and they make sure you get what you need. TAD can do the same. You can get a complete rebuild kit for under $600.00. The hardest part of rebuilding your engine is getting it out of the boat. If you really want a superior engine have all the rotating components zero balanced. A performance machine shop will can do a jam up job. Your engine will run smoother and you will gain a couple of ponies in the process.

Have the cylinder head magna fluxed for cracks. you can also have the head cryogenically treated for strength to increase longevity. Install some good stainless valves and a little port work to help it breath better. I would also have the crankshaft, cylinder liners, rods and piston cryogenically treated as well. Also match port the intake and exhaust manifold. I would also go ahead and match port the cooling passages as well. Heat is your biggest enemy on diesel engines. If room allows it, up size your exhaust plumbing. if possible go up 1" size from your normal size. Freeing up the exhaust flow will decrease heat. This is especially important on turbo engines.

In the end you will have a worry free engine that will last for a century and out perform any of the same size engine replacements and better fuel economy, providing you do your part and maintain it properly.

Its all about what you are really looking for in your boat. For us it`s our retirement home and it will be with us till the end. So we will put forth the extra time on the little details for a hi quality product.

wph36 13-09-2018 08:40

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Looking at converting to a 30 kw electric conversion ...any thoughts.
Also, how do I get that Perkins out of there? I have the head off, but not sure what sort of weight I'd have to wrestle with.

Cheechako 13-09-2018 09:01

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
[QUOTE=Keelhauler;2719641]Gentlemen,

Just caught wind of this topic. I'm sure this issue has been resolved but future rag baggers may come across this, like me.

I too have a 4-154. Here is a great source for 154 parts.

https://www.parts4engines.com/perkins-4-154-parts/

Just make sure you know what series engine you have. Provide them your engine serial number and they make sure you get what you need. TAD can do the same. You can get a complete rebuild kit for under $600.00. The hardest part of rebuilding your engine is getting it out of the boat. If you really want a superior engine have all the rotating components zero balanced. A performance machine shop will can do a jam up job. Your engine will run smoother and you will gain a couple of ponies in the process.

Have the cylinder head magna fluxed for cracks. you can also have the head cryogenically treated for strength to increase longevity. Install some good stainless valves and a little port work to help it breath better. I would also have the crankshaft, cylinder liners, rods and piston cryogenically treated as well. Also match port the intake and exhaust manifold. I would also go ahead and match port the cooling passages as well. Heat is your biggest enemy on diesel engines. If room allows it, up size your exhaust plumbing. if possible go up 1" size from your normal size. Freeing up the exhaust flow will decrease heat. This is especially important on turbo engines.

In the end you will have a worry free engine that will last for a century and out perform any of the same size engine replacements and better fuel economy, providing you do your part and maintain it properly.

Its all about what you are really looking for in your boat. For us it`s our retirement home and it will be with us till the end. So we will put forth the extra time on the little details for a hi quality product.[/ ]




:thumb: Incredibly smooth slow turning engine. Keep it!

oldcal46skipper 14-09-2018 00:59

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oldcal46skipper (Post 1505335)
I did a 4.154 re-man last year. Long block was $7,000 + shipping. I did not make very much profit as the re-man kit cost me $2,000, + machine shop + other hard to find parts + my labor. I have 2 rebuildable blocks, but will be $8,000 + shipping from 32507.
In my opinion, a re-man Perkins is far superior to a new Yanmar. Most Perkins 4.154's were built in Japan by Mazda for truck and industrial applications. Some parts interchange with the earlier marine engines built in the UK. I only use UK parts.

Four years later, 80 years old, health challenges, etc. I still have these two Perkins 4.154's rebuildable long blocks. One is a marine engine and the other from a Koehler Genset, with back end, radiator,+. We only have the energy to rebuild Perkins 4.108's and did 21 last year.

Anyone interested in the 4.154's? Make an offer + shipping from Pensacola, FL 32507 PM or E mail bshmarine@yahoo.com Do not call as I am hearing impaired.

Tom

Keelhauler 03-10-2018 19:19

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
WPH36

With the head off your still looking at 400-450lbs with gear. If you have a center cockpit then you should be able to bring the engine straight out of the cockpit floor. Some aft cockpit boats have removable floors too. It will suck if you have too come up through the companion way. Before I used an two aluminum stands a short and long sections of pipe and come a long. I also used the boom to swing it over to the dock. Best advice make good friends with a small skinny guy and a couple of Yetis. Have cold beer and grill up some burgers. It’s hard works no matter how you look at it.

Electric power is a great way to go. Get with “Electric Yachts” they have the best set up for the money. Just keep in mind if you are long distance cruising you will need a generator. Solar panels and wind generators will only get you so far. Keep the prop in gear while sailing will allow the electric motor to also help recharge the battery bank. I would still get a Honda 2000 just to have for those cloudy calm days.

Have fun and don’t rush the job.

coopec43 05-10-2018 03:41

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
"A rebore of the block, oversize pistons and replacing the bearings is more likely needed"


Pete
I thought the Perkins 4-154 had cylinder sleeves? That surely would simplify overhauling the motor significantly in the unlikely event the cylinders were worn?

Clive

coopec43 05-10-2018 03:54

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Maybe you should be looking for a complete Perkins 4-154 secondhand motor than just a cylinder head?

https://www.parts4engines.com/perkins-4-154-200-series/

Clive

Uncle Bob 05-10-2018 03:58

Re: Perkins 4-154 Rebuild or Repower
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Keelhauler (Post 2734454)
WPH36

With the head off your still looking at 400-450lbs with gear. If you have a center cockpit then you should be able to bring the engine straight out of the cockpit floor. Some aft cockpit boats have removable floors too. It will suck if you have too come up through the companion way. Before I used an two aluminum stands a short and long sections of pipe and come a long. I also used the boom to swing it over to the dock. Best advice make good friends with a small skinny guy and a couple of Yetis. Have cold beer and grill up some burgers. It’s hard works no matter how you look at it.

Electric power is a great way to go. Get with “Electric Yachts” they have the best set up for the money. Just keep in mind if you are long distance cruising you will need a generator. Solar panels and wind generators will only get you so far. Keep the prop in gear while sailing will allow the electric motor to also help recharge the battery bank. I would still get a Honda 2000 just to have for those cloudy calm days.

Have fun and don’t rush the job.

Just curious here, do you have firsthand experience cruising with an electric setup similar to that that you describe?


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