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-   -   Helia 44: Aft cleats warning !! (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f136/aft-cleats-warning-105569.html)

yeloya 13-06-2013 13:44

Aft cleats warning !!
 
The aft cleats on Helia are not positioned correctly. They stand oblique (almost perpendicular to water line) mounted on the weakest part of the boat. The cleats are not supposed to work under this kind of angle to the pantoon. As a matter of fact, all of three Helia that were delivered to us so far came with broken cleats. (either the wings of the cleats or in some of them, the GRP where they are placed is cracking or even breaking)
The correct position should be parallel to water line some 30-40 cm forward.

The delivery skippers claimed that the damages have happened when they were tied up in marinas under strong wind (35-40 kts) and or swells.

Cheers

Yeloya

Gordon 13-06-2013 14:28

Re: Aft cleats warning !!
 
Hi Yeloya,

Yes we are aware of this engineering weakness so for our first Med. dock here in Denia have elected to dock bow in, much kinder on the cleats and for the rear lines ange was just right.A little nervous for first attempt but all went smoothly and boat very secure and with plank off cross beam very easy on and off.Will watch the cleats though, thanks.
Gordon
(Will see you in Nov)

Cotemar 19-06-2013 05:03

Re: Aft cleats warning !!
 
2 Attachment(s)
Move cleat from sugar scoop to new location on toe rail or add another Goiot Deck Cleat.

SailMonAmi 12-08-2014 18:12

Re: Aft cleats warning !!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotemar (Post 1264418)
Move cleat from sugar scoop to new location on toe rail or add another Goiot Deck Cleat.

Couple of questions (if you know...):
1) How big a job is it ($$$) to add another cleat where you suggested?
2) Can the existing cleat be reinforced?
3) Will the aft cleats hold up OK using a drogue anchor (or where else would you secure the drogue?)?

Thanks!

Cotemar 12-08-2014 18:55

Re: Aft cleats warning !!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SailMonAmi (Post 1604650)
Couple of questions (if you know...):
1) How big a job is it ($$$) to add another cleat where you suggested?
2) Can the existing cleat be reinforced?
3) Will the aft cleats hold up OK using a drogue anchor (or where else would you secure the drogue?)?

Thanks!

I personally would just add another cleat up top. It's a DIY job and cleats are not that expensive.

Yes, you can re-enforce the lower stern cleat an it will help a lot.

A well re-enforce top cleat will hold drogue anchor.

I would never put a drogue anchor on the lower cleats, no matter what re-enforcement they have as the pull will still want to rip the cleat straight out.

SailMonAmi 13-08-2014 13:11

Re: Aft cleats warning !!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotemar (Post 1604680)
It personally would just add another cleat up top. It's a DIY job and cleats are not that expensive.

I'm pretty handy, but how do you install a new cleat where you don't have any access to where a backing plate would go, such as where you're suggesting? Thanks.

Cotemar 13-08-2014 13:30

Re: Aft cleats warning !!
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by SailMonAmi (Post 1605238)
I'm pretty handy, but how do you install a new cleat where you don't have any access to where a backing plate would go, such as where you're suggesting? Thanks.

Their are air vents just below where a top cleat would go. Remove the vent for access

Cotemar 12-09-2014 05:01

Re: Aft cleats warning !!
 
3 Attachment(s)
Here are a few picture of the new Helia 44 stern top cleat.
Thanks Gordon for sharing your cleat upgrade with us.

mikereed100 12-09-2014 06:46

Re: Aft cleats warning !!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SailMonAmi (Post 1604650)
Couple of questions (if you know...):
1) How big a job is it ($$$) to add another cleat where you suggested?
2) Can the existing cleat be reinforced?
3) Will the aft cleats hold up OK using a drogue anchor (or where else would you secure the drogue?)?

Thanks!

Better to add a purpose-built chainplate for the drogue (and the sea anchor). Not only will it be stronger, but will eliminate chafe. Don Jordan offers some guidelines here:
Jordan Series Drogue - Design Loads and Attachments

thinwater 12-09-2014 07:41

Re: Aft cleats warning !!
 
A perpetual problem with cats and cleat location is that what works well for spring lines etc (as they were remounted in this thread) does not work if the line has to cris-cross or lead from the far side. I added these line deflectors ~ 5 years ago, and they do a lovely job of keeping the stern lines clear of the tender. I you install chain plates for a drogue, they could certainly be dual purpose (what climbers call a "quick draw" with wire gate biners will stand up to salt corrosion and hold 5000 pounds--even on a larger boat, the WL on the deflector is not that high).

Sail Delmarva: Easy Mooring with a Dingy on the Davits

(note: conventional carabiners, as pictured do not hold up around salt; the gate locks. However, wire gate climbing carabiners do very well, are smoother in action than any marine alternative, and have served flawlessly for over 5 years in this application.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fDLXryKUnC...0/IMG_4211.JPG

Cotemar 08-08-2016 19:20

Cleats
 
1 Attachment(s)
Helia 44 owners,

FP really upgraded the cleats from the Goiot 12 inch aluminum to the new Stainless Steel 14 inch.

Capn Bri 22-08-2016 14:49

Re: Aft cleats warning !!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotemar (Post 1604680)
I personally would just add another cleat up top. It's a DIY job and cleats are not that expensive.

Yes, you can re-enforce the lower stern cleat an it will help a lot.

A well re-enforce top cleat will hold drogue anchor.

I would never put a drogue anchor on the lower cleats, no matter what re-enforcement they have as the pull will still want to rip the cleat straight out.

Agree to all. You have to wonder if anyone designing for FP has ever actually sailed a boat before!!!

My Orana had a cleat tear straight out of the deck when rigged as a barbor-hauler with a snatch-block. The jib was triple reefed in about 30 kt winds when it tore the cleat straight out of the deck. After making it back, I investigated a little closer and noticed, to my complete amazement, that the mid-ship cleats were not secured with backing plates (as per ABYS standard). Instead they were only backed with washers. Not even fender washers, just one plain old, zinc ~1" washers and a hex-nut on each bolt.

I subsequently added a pair of two inch steel fender washers to each bolt. That ought to hold 'em ...(famous last words).

- CB

.

arsenelupiga 22-08-2016 15:28

Re: Aft cleats warning !!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Capn Bri (Post 2195141)
Agree to all. You have to wonder if anyone designing for FP has ever actually sailed a boat before!!!

My Orana had a cleat tear straight out of the deck when rigged as a barbor-hauler with a snatch-block. The jib was triple reefed in about 30 kt winds when it tore the cleat straight out of the deck. After making it back, I investigated a little closer and noticed, to my complete amazement, that the mid-ship cleats were not secured with backing plates (as per ABYS standard). Instead they were only backed with washers. Not even fender washers, just one plain old, zinc ~1" washers and a hex-nut on each bolt.

I subsequently added a pair of two inch steel fender washers to each bolt. That ought to hold 'em ...(famous last words).

- CB

.

reminds me of my previous boat that had no washers installed at all.

backing plate will not add any value unless pulling cleat up as with barber hauler. Drogue or sea anchor setup will not benefit. I use front cleat and spi block to get better angles and more ability to optimise sail shape.

overextendedfp 07-11-2017 10:04

Re: Aft cleats warning !!
 
Do you know where I can purchase these 14 inch stainless steel cleats if I wanted upgrade my cleats on my Helia 44

PapaLulu 08-11-2017 11:25

Re: Aft cleats warning !!
 
Any data out there on the design loan of the Helia’s stern cleats? I understand the probable increase in load capability by moving the clear topside but with a strong backing plate I would assume the original stern clear placement would be more than adequate. That angled stern with thick fiberglass on both sides looks pretty beefy.


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