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-   -   Which Florida property or not? (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2/which-florida-property-or-not-101270.html)

Privleoplag 04-04-2013 13:41

I've been looking at Florida properties on the west side.. From Marco to Port Charlotte and have been having a real hard time finding single family homes that have sailboat access. Now I'm wondering if buying something inland and renting marina space near by is the better option. Not really what I want. I want my catamaran parked in my back yard. Where is that possible? I don't do well with rules and regulations so condos are pretty much out of the question. Maybe for that matter, so is Florida. It's my wife more so considering a house... of course, I'm fine with just the boat and an anchor. It would be a few years before we get the boat up here, maybe in the meantime I'd have space to rent.
I should add that I'm doing this from a long way away from Florida, so adds to the difficulty.

skipmac 04-04-2013 14:15

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Don't know why you can't find a single family home with sailboat access. There are literally thousands and thousands. Maybe not as many in the area you specified but if you look at google maps you can see them lined up along every bit of water front in FL that isn't a swamp, protected mangroves or a park.

Now that doesn't mean that they are all for sale, but certainly some will be. However, one problem will be finding a house with a dock that will take a catamaran. Lots of these waterfront homes are on canals or narrow waterways and a cat would block the whole channel if it fit at all. Might make you very unpopular with the neighbors further upstream. You will have to look for houses on a lagoon or something with more clearance.

Also, be prepared to spend upwards of seven figures to find a house with a deepwater dock in S FL.

Privleoplag 04-04-2013 14:20

Thanks for the reply. Google earth has been real helpful.. Then I check the bridge heights and find that 64' mast just doesn't quite make it under some of the 53' (or 10') so bridges, I've also been able to see the narrowness of the channels and estimate where and where not a catamaran may go. I notice some nice marina/developments east of Marco but seems what is for sale is condos and not so interested. For sure, I've been doing a lot of homework on this, and finding the type of property I'm looking for ain't so easy.

hgd137 04-04-2013 14:39

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Have you looked at Marco Island? You certainly can find what you are looking for here

Herman

Kettlewell 04-04-2013 15:05

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Have you looked at Cape Coral? Tons of canals there, and a lot of them are deep enough for bigger boats. I've seen some pretty big cats in there. There is a 55-foot bridge upriver a bit towards Ft. Myers, but you don't have to go that far to be able to enter a lot of the canals. However, communities in that area are rather notorious for lots of rules and regulations, so you may just have to put up with some of that.

haw1961 04-04-2013 15:13

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
I spent a couple winters in Cape Coral. Surely, there are plenty of sailboat access properties for sale. Hell, seems like half the town is for sale.

AfterHoursNLCT 04-04-2013 15:35

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
I looked in Port Charlotte two years ago and the houses were being given away, but the partner said no and she IS the Boss...(guys never get their way)....LL

S/V Illusion 04-04-2013 15:56

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
There are loads of properties for sale with sufficient water and unrestricted access for sailboats. Since the OP didn't mention it, this may be an issue of price as such properties don't come cheap.

Privleoplag 04-04-2013 16:06

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
You bet it's an issue of price, of course..isn't everything? We want the best deal. Start at the bottom and work our way up.. so far.. at our bottom, we're not seeing anything.. at our top, there is little that interests us, mostly because of all the rules and regulations that are associated with them. Seriously I don't do well with rules.. I'm a guy who's lived in the county all my life.. rules didn't exist.. I can step off the back porch and shoot the guns anytime. I realize, that I may have to give that up, but I haven't been shooting near as much these days.. so may not be to difficult. But to tell me how many vehicles can be parked out front after 4:00 p.m. or that none can be a pickup truck, or that visitors can only stay so long... Ain't going to cut it for this farm boy.

S/V Illusion 04-04-2013 16:12

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Privleoplag (Post 1202837)
You bet it's an issue of price, of course..isn't everything? We want the best deal. Start at the bottom and work our way up.. so far.. at our bottom, we're not seeing anything.. at our top, there is little that interests us, mostly because of all the rules and regulations that are associated with them. Seriously I don't do well with rules.. I'm a guy who's lived in the county all my life.. rules didn't exist.. I can step off the back porch and shoot the guns anytime. I realize, that I may have to give that up, but I haven't been shooting near as much these days.. so may not be to difficult. But to tell me how many vehicles can be parked out front after 4:00 p.m. or that none can be a pickup truck, or that visitors can only stay so long... Ain't going to cut it for this farm boy.

This ain't the farm and when someone spends millions for a waterfront deep water access you seem to want for cheap, don't get too upset when your neighbors frown on certain behaviors you might be used to.

Privleoplag 04-04-2013 16:19

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion (Post 1202839)
This ain't the farm and when someone spends millions for a waterfront deep water access you seem to want for cheap, don't get too upset when your neighbors frown on certain behaviors you might be used to.

I really do get along just fine with people.. and if a neighbor came over and asked me if I could please put the car in the garage after 4:00 it would be no problem to do that for the neighbor.. but if there was a rule that that had to happen.. I can't do it. I won't live like that, never have, never will. Here in my original post.. it's been difficult to find the type of property I'm looking for.. but I'm appreciating all the help and advice.

sy_gilana 04-04-2013 16:20

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
PS, the reason I put you on to my friends who want to sell their house with a dock is, if they sell it they come cruising as our buddy boat!

Kettlewell 04-04-2013 16:27

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Quote:

Seriously I don't do well with rules.. I'm a guy who's lived in the county all my life.. rules didn't exist.. I can step off the back porch and shoot the guns anytime. I realize, that I may have to give that up, but I haven't been shooting near as much these days.. so may not be to difficult. But to tell me how many vehicles can be parked out front after 4:00 p.m. or that none can be a pickup truck, or that visitors can only stay so long... Ain't going to cut it for this farm boy.
You might do better looking in the Carolinas or Georgia. There are some pretty nice opportunities in the Neuse River-Pamlico-Albemarle Sound area, and the bridges up there are mostly 65 feet along the ICW.

S/V Illusion 04-04-2013 16:27

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Privleoplag (Post 1202846)
I really do get along just fine with people.. and if a neighbor came over and asked me if I could please put the car in the garage after 4:00 it would be no problem to do that for the neighbor.. but if there was a rule that that had to happen.. I can't do it. I won't live like that, never have, never will. Here in my original post.. it's been difficult to find the type of property I'm looking for.. but I'm appreciating all the help and advice.

In the spirit of being constructive, depending on your price range and requirements for bedrooms/baths, etc and I'm sure we can find you a laundry-list of places to park a pickup truck. Conversely, if you want such a place cheap, I'll not waste more time.

sww914 04-04-2013 16:28

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
It sounds like Louisiana or Alabama might be more what you're looking for. Maybe not what the wife is looking for but they're less crowded and crowded = rules.
I really couldn't believe the difference between Northern California and Southern California as we cruised down the coast. Right at Santa Barbara we went from totally relaxed and affordable to super expensive and a bunch of pricks running things.

nimblemotors 04-04-2013 17:15

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
I didn't think anywhere had oceanside property cheap anymore! including outside the USA. I lived in Florida for a few years, humidty is horrible, all the south is,
but with the boat I guess you can leave for the summer right?
Doesn't New Orleans have some cheap property these days?
We were looking for a while, St. Croix seemed to have some good deals as far as places we might want to live with great weather.

in st croix shack for $400k:

https://cdn.resize.flexmls.com/vir/80...86000000-o.jpg

$600K:

https://cdn.resize.flexmls.com/vir/80...36000000-o.jpg

Privleoplag 04-04-2013 17:25

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Hello Sy,
Yes, their property looks very good, but google maps shows Singer Island to be 165 miles or so from where most of the family is buying properties now. Love the beach that is so close too! Too bad it's east side instead of west.
thanks.
Maybe we see you cruising in the future!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sy_gilana (Post 1202847)
PS, the reason I put you on to my friends who want to sell their house with a dock is, if they sell it they come cruising as our buddy boat!


Privleoplag 04-04-2013 17:27

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Scarcity of rules alone could make them worth that from what I'm seeing.
Yes, I'm thinking we would use a new place as a base once in awhile. We're soon 5-6 months out of the northland for the winters, but back to the northland for the summers. The northland has it's good things, but winter is not one of them... and we're still in it! And by the looks of all the snow and what the forcasts are like, will be for awhile yet!

Quote:

Originally Posted by nimblemotors (Post 1202878)
I didn't think anywhere had oceanside property cheap anymore! including outside the USA. I lived in Florida for a few years, humidty is horrible, all the south is,
but with the boat I guess you can leave for the summer right?
Doesn't New Orleans have some cheap property these days?
We were looking for a while, St. Croix seemed to have some good deals as far as places we might want to live with great weather.

in st croix shack for $400k:

https://cdn.resize.flexmls.com/vir/80...86000000-o.jpg

$600K:

https://cdn.resize.flexmls.com/vir/80...36000000-o.jpg


bobconnie 04-04-2013 17:33

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
:thumb:Somebody said the magic word ! Louisiana. There are lots and lots of bayou side property with or with out docks, plenty of water and home costs are a lot LESS then anything you will find in Fla. just go on line and take a look ! we like it and have lived in both places ! Just our 2 cents

SearenitySail 04-04-2013 17:45

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Another vote for Cape Coral--a little further south than Punta Gorda/Port Charlotte and probably the most affordable right now. Certainly moreso than Naples.

As for canals and sailboat access, there is a PDQ 36 catamaran on the canal where my mother lives and there was a Lagoon 35 catamaran on the same canal.

Marshall

ebaugh 04-04-2013 18:20

We lived in St Petersburg on the water from 1990 to 2011. 8ft at the dock, at least 7 ft and one opening bridge to the gulf. Sold the house to go cruising.... Not able to help much in your stated area, but St Pete is one hour north by car from your window.

A draft of 4 ft helps, but some canals would be a stretch for the beam of some cats. We lived in the Maximo/Broadwater area, which has the canal width and depths for sail, costs were running under 200K for a fixer upper 3/2, to 470K for a remodeled 3/2 pool home on the bigger lots. 1800-2400 sqft.

But...consider carefully. Taxes alone on my house for a new owner are more than slip rent for a 40-50 foot boat. Property Insurance rates are pretty high, especially if you are coming from out of state. So don't forget to look at those making your decision. Taxes, Insurance and maintenance for us would have equaled rental value. There was no way to support a mortgage. Renting begins to look pretty good depending on your long term perception of the market.

Cape Coral and Punta Gorda I think are slightly less expensive markets, but with less "sailboat" property.

Good luck, I hope you find what you want!

Privleoplag 04-04-2013 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SearenitySail (Post 1202897)
Another vote for Cape Coral--a little further south than Punta Gorda/Port Charlotte and probably the most affordable right now. Certainly moreso than Naples.

As for canals and sailboat access, there is a PDQ 36 catamaran on the canal where my mother lives and there was a Lagoon 35 catamaran on the same canal.

Marshall

We're a bit bigger boat than either of those but not by much. Would you care to share a location of that canal and would you happen to know of any signs in the yards?

Privleoplag 04-04-2013 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebaugh (Post 1202933)
We lived in St Petersburg on the water from 1990 to 2011. 8ft at the dock, at least 7 ft and one opening bridge to the gulf. Sold the house to go cruising.... Not able to help much in your stated area, but St Pete is one hour north by car from your window.

A draft of 4 ft helps, but some canals would be a stretch for the beam of some cats. We lived in the Maximo/Broadwater area, which has the canal width and depths for sail, costs were running under 200K for a fixer upper 3/2, to 470K for a remodeled 3/2 pool home on the bigger lots. 1800-2400 sqft.

But...consider carefully. Taxes alone on my house for a new owner are more than slip rent for a 40-50 foot boat. Property Insurance rates are pretty high, especially if you are coming from out of state. So don't forget to look at those making your decision. Taxes, Insurance and maintenance for us would have equaled rental value. There was no way to support a mortgage. Renting begins to look pretty good depending on your long term perception of the market.

Cape Coral and Punta Gorda I think are slightly less expensive markets, but with less "sailboat" property.

Good luck, I hope you find what you want!

Ebaugh,
Thanks for that info and advice.. For sure have to consider everything and I'm sure those "extras" will come to light as we keep looking. Good information though for sure. Our boat drafts less than 4' but has near 20' beam and 38' length. we'll google up St. Pete.

cheoah 04-04-2013 19:04

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
When I bought my boat in Punta Gorda in 2010, I looked at a real estate paper and could not believe the deals. But I wasn't looking at air draft or any other details. I would think there is plenty of good local cruising from what I saw coming home, and good access across the gulf, or across or down the gulf stream for even more good cruising.

Dude you're looking in the wrong place if you don't do well being told what to do. Those people will crucify you for building outbuildings, making too much noise, or any other nuisance that might just be part of your routine. As s/v Illusion said, people in these neighborhoods are paying for their lifestyle - I can understand that. I could never willingly adapt to that kind of density, and already feel encroached on when people build on the edge of the 1200 acres where I live.

There are many better places to live on the gulf or atlantic coasts, less restrictive, but with fishing and farming people living along with retirees or boaters. I'm sure there are lots of reasons for looking there, and if that's what you want, I'd keep looking, but sounds like the really cheap deals are gone. Cash buyers would have been foolish to pass up some of the deals of the last 5 years. It really is beautiful down there, if you can adapt to the population density and culture.

TacomaSailor 04-04-2013 20:24

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
My folks, brother (use to own a Tartan 42), and sister have lived in Cape Coral, Ft Myers since 1985.

My wife and I have looked at hundreds of sailboat properties in the area during the last 20 years.

Burnt Store Marina just north of Cape Coral (Pine Island Blvd) has some great condos and townhouses with no bridges and docks immediately in front of the residence. Some of those units are currently selling for 1/3 of what they were 10 - 12 years ago.

Be really careful about:

- bridge clearances (our 60' mast will not fit under the Cape Coral Parkway bridge as our sister discovered.)

- coral ridges in canals that make the water beyond them inaccessible to a sailboat. We made an offer on a beautiful place between El Dorado and Cape Coral Pkwy. The water depth at our docks was about 8' but when we sounded the canal from my fathers fishing boat between our dock and the river we found two ridges that brought the canal bottom up to 4' 6" and were the full width of the canal.

- long shallow and tough to find channels in sounds like Pine Sound north of St James City on the east side of Pine Island. We found several beautiful houses with just short canals to the sound but then it was 30 minutes of tedious motoring to get out to sailing water

- locations that do not have secure tie offs for hurricanes. We found several nice houses/docks but it was obvious that in a hurricane it would be impossible to secure the boat to protect it. My brother who used to own a Tartan 42 lived in Cape Coral during Charlie and said he watched many sailboats that seemed to be well secured disappear into the rain.

- lots behind the locks. We tried to buy several condos with docks that required passage thru the locks. We spend months at a time in Cape Coral and visit the locks frequently. It is not un-common for them to be out of service for weeks at a time. And, they are very slow and tedious.

There are a lot of very nice sailboat houses/condos but a 64' mast and the resultant draft will require you to be very careful.

Feel free to e-mail for more info.

Smokingator 04-04-2013 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheoah (Post 1202965)
When I bought my boat in Punta Gorda in 2010, I looked at a real estate paper and could not believe the deals. But I wasn't looking at air draft or any other details. I would think there is plenty of good local cruising from what I saw coming home, and good access across the gulf, or across or down the gulf stream for even more good cruising.

Dude you're looking in the wrong place if you don't do well being told what to do. Those people will crucify you for building outbuildings, making too much noise, or any other nuisance that might just be part of your routine. As s/v Illusion said, people in these neighborhoods are paying for their lifestyle - I can understand that. I could never willingly adapt to that kind of density, and already feel encroached on when people build on the edge of the 1200 acres where I live.

There are many better places to live on the gulf or atlantic coasts, less restrictive, but with fishing and farming people living along with retirees or boaters. I'm sure there are lots of reasons for looking there, and if that's what you want, I'd keep looking, but sounds like the really cheap deals are gone. Cash buyers would have been foolish to pass up some of the deals of the last 5 years. It really is beautiful down there, if you can adapt to the population density and culture.

Yes. You don't need to live in Marco proper. Check out Goodland. Still country, a cracker rural area

denverd0n 05-04-2013 05:57

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Well, if you really have that big of a problem with "rules" then you probably aren't going to find what you want for less than a couple of million or so. The neighborhoods with lots of houses on canals are almost all going to have Home Owners Associations, with rules out the wazoo.

I think you have, in essence, created a set of mutually exclusive criteria for yourself.

Good luck, though. Maybe you'll get lucky.

Boatguy30 05-04-2013 06:19

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
My experience is that most people with cruising sailboats docked in there backyards is that they don't ever go cruising. Certainly there are exceptions, but having lived in FL waterway communities for 15 years that Is what I have found. If you want to go cruising, I would skip the house. I'm only ashore myself at the moment because of the age of my children and being between yachts.

It is really shocking to total the outgoings: taxes, water, garbage, internet, insurance, law care, etc, etc. Also, you've probably missed the boat on the good bargains as it seems waterfront prices are up roughly 20-50% from the lows in the areas you're looking.

Kettlewell 05-04-2013 06:45

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
The biggest issue I think is that your boat isn't really suited to Florida west coast cruising since the standard bridge height over most of the ICW there is 55 feet. You will be very limited in where you can go and how you can get there. If you are just looking for a cheap way to store your boat you might as well take the mast down and go to one of the storage yards on the Okeechobee and have it hauled out--much cheaper than dockage or owning a home and better hurricane protection for the boat.

haw1961 05-04-2013 08:39

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Yea Boatguy, The boat in the backyard syndrome. It is unbelieveable the boats that sit there and never move. If I were looking for a boat deal I think I would cruise the canals down there, and make some offers. Only problem, they all want a fortune for them. They don't see what everybody else see's.

NSboatman 05-04-2013 09:24

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Check out 97 Nottingham lane, Inglis, FL in google. Deepwater dock, right on the Withlacoochie river. Awesome, rural area. fit a cat in there no prob, safe as houses - rarely ever get any storm surge up there. Lots of houses for sale along that river.

I bought my boat from the guy that is trying to sell this place. he lives in HI. boat stayed there on that dock for 10 years with nary an issue. Very pretty, quiet neighborhood.

Great house too. watch out for the water moccs sunning themselves on the dock ladder though.

good luck!

lorenzo b 05-04-2013 09:27

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Not.
Florida is where old white people go to die, best to avoid the place.
Come on down to Central America and live on your boat.
We don't have rules down here.

Privleoplag 05-04-2013 10:47

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Wow, I tell you what.. I'm so impressed with almost all :) of the responses! I really thank you for taking the time for some great insight and suggestions. I have pondered this now for days (and days).. I think.. or I know, I'm probably not really cut out for the Florida life. My wife, maybe so, myself, surely not. I think if she is set on seeing the family and friends living in Florida some winter, it'll be with the boat parked at a liveaboard marina, with the option to skidaddle when we can't take it anymore.

I know, it's just me, but that's me. We bought the boat to liveaboard during the winters but now so many family and friends are buying land based that my wife gets some idea that we should also. Says it could be a good investment whether we use it much or not. I don't need investments, and I think I just keep tucking it away for the boating kitty. I think my wife is going to make us go look at property though.. and I appreciate having the negatives to bring up in the conversation. I hate driving in the cities.. miss the roads where we're the only ones.

Kettle, Boatguy, Tacoma, cheoha, and maybe I missed some, but thanks especially for your good info and posts. Might need a bit more info in the future.
Thanks, seriously, thank you everyone for your time.

Capt.Alex 05-04-2013 11:06

Check out Matlacha Island, near pine island/Sanibel area. Many sailboats there!

TacomaSailor 05-04-2013 11:22

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Privleoplag

I agree with your sentiments exactly!

We had "owned" (well - us and the bank!) our own single family American Dream Home (actually four different ones) from 1976 until 2001.

We sold our beautiful custom built, hill top view... etc home of 19 years in July 2001 and continued our cruising (we had actually left in Aug 2000 but it took a while to finally sell the house a couple times).

We have tired to buy a new place many times since returning from cruising but continue to rent - a nice place but it is still rent.

It has been very liberating not owning a home while cruising 1/2 time on our boat - such freedom - we can do anything we want. When my wife retires for the 2nd time in July this year all we have to do is give the landlord 30 days notice and we are free to take our boat anywhere we want.

And - I don't think home ownership is such a great deal as most people think. My previous life involved a bit of financial analysis and comparison of various types of purchase/lease/rent options for very expensive capital equipment.

The home we purchased in spring 1982 and sold in summer 2001 more than doubled in price (way more!) during that time. But - when you factor in
tax
insurance
maintenance
lost investment opportunity on the down payment
mortgage interest write off
home off write off
selling costs

our return on the original investment and the payments was about 2.5%/year for 19 years. During that same time our financial investments averaged over 10% annual return. We would have been way further ahead by renting for 19 years and investing the significant down payment we made.

And we would not have had 10 months of heart ache trying to sell the house while we sailed from Puget Sound to Mexico.

That home is now for sale for just slightly more than we sold it for 12 years ago and the current owners put about 40% of the value of the house into "improvements" so they are way behind after 12 years of taxes and insurance.

During the summer of 2010 we sailed our boat from Puget Sound to San Diego so that we would have a nice winter place and a boat to sail in the California sunshine. We still keep a place in Tacoma to be near my wife's family and for her to work some but having the boat in the warm sunshine year round is great.

SearenitySail 05-04-2013 11:35

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Privleoplag (Post 1202945)
We're a bit bigger boat than either of those but not by much. Would you care to share a location of that canal and would you happen to know of any signs in the yards?

Haven't been down to Florida since February, but there were a number of signs around the neighborhood.

Google "waterfront wonderland" and you will get to a site that specializes in SW Florida properties. They can help you narrow down by your criteria.

hellosailor 05-04-2013 12:07

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
priv, Florida was a rural swamp full of ranches and farms and redneck trash until someone figured out that you could do some dredging, build "Planned Communities", and sell them for four or five times what they would really be worth, to Yankees who didn't know what swampland sold for.

So now you've got a more mixed population but it is often full of those Planned Communities, especially where someone dredged those drainage canals to build them. Canals will mean a developer was there, which will mean encumberments.

If you can find an older area that was settled by real people in real houses...and it isn't frightfully expensive...You know, better luck that way.

It probably still is a good time to buy, land or homes, in Florida since the market seems to have started back up again, but is nowhere near what it was. But that might mean putting a Hobie on the dock with an airlift, and keeping the big boat in a marina with handy ocean access.

I don't think it matterss what state you go to, finding ocean access with dockage for THAT much boat? It will have a hefty property bill attached to it. Open water, high bridges, location location location. "Ka-ching!"

Kita 21-04-2013 15:53

Re: Which Florida property or not?
 
Hi everyone, I live on the west coast of Fl or I should say very close to tarpon springs sponge docks but not on the gulf,but a few min inland on a lake & there are other things to consider like Flood Inc or wind Inc, what I am saying is you WILL pay to park your boat at your dock on the coast or at a marina dock one way or another, inland you can buy much more for so much less you can save enough to dock the boat.. I know nice houses on deep water canals can be got in Palm coast for 350, but you got neighbors. HOA . I have two lake houses that can be got for 425 & one is rented for 900 mo & have no neighbors on a dead end, I am looking to sell out to fund buying a cat to go sailing. Just a thought,buy my place & save enough to dock your boat 20 min away & let the rental pay for it... Can you tell I want to go sailing??


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