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-   -   Anchor design and misnomers (https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/anchor-design-and-misnomers-100658.html)

Kettlewell 26-04-2013 10:29

Re: Anchor design and misnomers
 
There's a good thread on anchors for cats here. My own two cents is that cats tend to have greater windage than a mono of the same length, and therefore may pull harder on an anchor, but the use of a bridle means they probably don't subject their anchors to the peak loads a mono can. Also, watch out that the anchor can fit in your bow roller arrangement.

GordMay 27-04-2013 05:15

Re: Anchor design and misnomers
 
Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, goelze, and sailsw00.

ternmarine 27-06-2013 19:02

Re: Anchor design and misnomers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by estarzinger (Post 1194656)
Lewmar has made the delta CAD files publicly available. If someone wanted to get me CAD files for the Excel I would be happy to do a completely objective and independent comparison of them and describe/explain the differences (I would certainly be happy to keep the actual excel CAD's confidential if it was requested).

It seems to me that, given the way the Excel looks (just like a Delta in photos), this is just simply such an obvious question that has to be well answered or will be a significant barrier to acceptance. I know it is for me. I certainly don't trust the mfg's anchor 'tests', not the website 'testimony'. We all know how those can so easily be manipulated. We even know from the public Rocna e-mails how 3rd party tests can be manipulated (providing non-production anchors that are specially 'tuned' for testing, and influencing testers to only test in situations where the anchor will do particularly well, and analytically manipulating test results).

Right now we don't even have any side by side photos. All we have are these:

Delta:
Attachment 57870
Excel:
Attachment 57871
Delta:
Attachment 57872
Excel:
Attachment 57873

But based on these photos we do have, honestly, if this is not a Delta copy, I don't know what would be. Perhaps it's an "improved" copy. I would certainly like to believe that, but find it hard to take simply on "trust" given the anchor industry (with the notable exception of fortress) past actions and experience.

As to "plow", and "next gen", and "concave", etc . . . I personally figure this is mostly important to those with marketing and spin agendas. I personally find the discussion of them all much too simple to explain behavior in a complex range of bottoms and dynamic loads. I don't have any agenda except to carry the best anchor on my own boat and don't regularly use any of that terminology. I (try to) talk about specific anchors and specific features and specific geometry.

Perhaps we should send you one of ours to test?

Cheechako 27-06-2013 19:15

Re: Anchor design and misnomers
 
Based on the picture I would say the angles are substantially different than the Delta....

Delfin 27-06-2013 19:34

Re: Anchor design and misnomers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako (Post 1272110)
Based on the picture I would say the angles are substantially different than the Delta....

Complaints from Delta owners about dragging or bending are not hard to locate. The Excel? Not so much. Must be some differences beyond the Excels better steel.

Cheechako 27-06-2013 19:56

Re: Anchor design and misnomers
 
I loved my Delta, never dragged throughout the Caribe. Never had an easier anchor to set in my life. However, in a big windshift (150/180 degrees) it would drag every time. Everyone keeps trying to reinvent the anchor for pull... but the best is out there for that (Danforth). What we need is an anchor that stays set or resets every time in a wind shift.

congo 28-06-2013 03:33

Re: Anchor design and misnomers
 
Well well, your comments certainly have not advanced.

Itís a delta, itís a modified delta, no its angles vary, someone supply me with Cad drawings and I will explain the difference? Not interested some say with strait line holding power, tide and severe wind changes are what matters.

Never mind I suppose this ongoing chitter pleases some,(Certification), some of you based on your ongoing comments obviously just donít understand this meaning, accreditation.

If you do understand then they can easily be checked through links from our web site.

Strength, change of tide and wind orientation, resetting ability, these are just a few requirements that have to be met or you will not receive this accreditation. Certification should by all means give you some assurance of credibility as to performance; it was instrumented by the National Marine Safety Committee, the N.M.S.C IS now under the control of AMSA.

As to its design then I will just let you guys continue to agree to disagree keeping one thing in mind, Delta will never receive Super High Holding Power accreditation.

What may be of interest is this thred https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s42/sarca-excel-7725-5.html where as a rocna owner in the US was having a few issues with a large rocna has now switched to an Excel and is doing a comparison test.

No we do not have an agent in your part of the world but continue selling good numbers to your country men direct, hopefully they are not discouraged by some and the previously locked Excel thread to come on and share their experience with you, incidentally a Number seven Excel is as I speak on its way to France, packed with it is our latest alloy version of the Excel, whoops another discussion.

Regards Rex.





goelze 28-06-2013 11:43

Re: Anchor design and misnomers
 
I belive it is simplistic to view performance of different anchor types by only looking to their basic flat surfaces - Convex, Concave, or Flat. For example: the convex shape of the Delta, Sarca and similar designs have upturned flukes that create a substantial amount of resistance to just cutting through the bottom like a blade.

Another huge difference factor is the tip of the anchor. If it is turned down, it will set and re-set much quicker/better than if the tip is straight IMO.

My experience: Cruising 9 years and diving my anchor 95% of the drops and many times watching, from underwater, how they set and re-set. I am a Mech Engr.

Hope this helps.
Gary


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