Written from a child's perspective

[Boatguy30]

Plenty of things you can drive your kids to in your dinghy in larger cruising outposts. Just like having a minivan. Some are even more expensive these days.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

Yes, I have two sons, now 7 and 12. Both are in gifted programs in the public schools. I do not take credit for this, although my wife has done a lot. They have professional teachers trained and experienced in teaching children, with special gifted programs with an additional teacher for further development. You cannot duplicate that on a boat. My wife and I both have graduate degrees, but we are not professional educators.

Just to give you a day-in-the-life perspective to show you the difference, here are some events from the last 5 days. On Thursday, the PTA put on a second grade musical program, with group singing, jokes and nontraditional musical instruments. My son stood on a stage with a dozens of other second graders in front of several hundred parents and relatives for a performance. His best friend/”girlfriend” stood next to him in the performance and probably had some kinds of conversations before and after.

On Saturday, I drove my older son to a birthday party of his friends at an indoor trampoline/climbing wall/zip-line park. He had fun playing at this indoor facility with a dozen other classmates, away from his parents, enjoying pizza and birthday cake.

Yesterday, we went sailing, with a fast food lunch on the way to the boat, followed by a home-cooked Chinese dinner at home.

I am not sure exactly how these diverse activities affect my sons, but I am sure they are much better for developed, well-rounded children than those stuck on a small boat, educated by their parents, with all those limitations. The best you can say is, “well, my child stood on the beach at Vanatu, or went into the town at Papeete,” after spending two months stuck on a boat with only his or her parents. That is an environment lacking in the full spectrum of socialization and development. You do not know what your kids might be missing by confining them to a cruising lifestyle.

Further, I did not force my children to do anything, other than go to school each morning and go to bed at night. They exercised free will and the ability to choose.

You don’t know what your kids might be missing by confining them to a parentally-directed, professionally-out sourced, suburban lifestyle.

If it works for you and your kids, great. But it ain’t necessarily so for others. You do you, and let others do for themselves as they will, not you will.

And what was wrong with the original story is lack of parental care. It had nothing to do with the cruising lifestyle.

[Sailor Sailor]

Originally Posted by jordanbigel

... what research can you point to that backs up your assertion?

You must have missed the numerous articles on the "COVID learning gap". The statistics show that, on average, parents cannot educate their children at home as well as teachers can at school. There are now recognizable shortfalls due to the pandemic and virtual learning.

Citing exceptions and anecdotal evidence does not change that reality.

There are other advantages to learning in an environment with lots of other kids, parents, and educators. Children on boats simply do not have those opportunities.

Just to give a few more examples from my personal experience. One of our family friends has a daughter who wins competitions as a concert pianist, and as a dancer (they have a grand piano at home). Her brother also is an amazing dancer (Mom is a professional dance choreographer and educator and Dad is a medical scientist). My oldest son has a black belt in TKD, earned over several years in a studio. Other acquaintances have children winning awards in swimming and diving contests, and field sports.

O.K. so cruising kid can play the guitar, dance on the deck, jump off the boat and swim. Those are not exactly the same experiences and opportunities.

Other kids of our friends want to grow up to be doctors, lawyers, and scientists, because they are inspired by the peers of their parents.

Cruising kid wants to grow up to be a YouTuber and learn how to show off his future girlfriend's T&A to increase revenue for more free cruising. Little bit of a cultural difference there.

[5BTM]

She has a lot of issues to work out and this is just the first step: the recognition of a loss.

Hopefully she can progress to the last step sooner that later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrVWHfEQz6A&t=726s

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

You must have missed the numerous articles on the "COVID learning gap". The statistics show that, on average, parents cannot educate their children at home as well as teachers can at school. There are now recognizable shortfalls due to the pandemic and virtual learning.

All that proves is if you suddenly force home schooling on families not interested and willing, that the unprepared kids and parents will struggle.

Heck even among the willing, they had no time to prepare or adapt to home schooling. Hardly a quality test.

Among the cruisers we've met the kids are all doing great...but it's typically a situation where the parents pre-planned and we're prepared.

As others have suggested, this kid would likely have had similar issues growing in a suburban scenario with bad parents.

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

Cruising kid wants to grow up to be a YouTuber and learn how to show off his future girlfriend's T&A to increase revenue for more free cruising. Little bit of a cultural difference there.

Wow. You really are an expert.

[jleonar]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

You must have missed the numerous articles on the "COVID learning gap". The statistics show that, on average, parents cannot educate their children at home as well as teachers can at school. There are now recognizable shortfalls due to the pandemic and virtual learning.

Citing exceptions and anecdotal evidence does not change that reality.

There are other advantages to learning in an environment with lots of other kids, parents, and educators. Children on boats simply do not have those opportunities.

Just to give a few more examples from my personal experience. One of our family friends has a daughter who wins competitions as a concert pianist, and as a dancer (they have a grand piano at home). Her brother also is an amazing dancer (Mom is a professional dance choreographer and educator and Dad is a medical scientist). My oldest son has a black belt in TKD, earned over several years in a studio. Other acquaintances have children winning awards in swimming and diving contests, and field sports.

O.K. so cruising kid can play the guitar, dance on the deck, jump off the boat and swim. Those are not exactly the same experiences and opportunities.

Other kids of our friends want to grow up to be doctors, lawyers, and scientists, because they are inspired by the peers of their parents.

Cruising kid wants to grow up to be a YouTuber and learn how to show off his future girlfriend's T&A to increase revenue for more free cruising. Little bit of a cultural difference there.

You really do try to paint things in a way that only supports your own biases.

I have two kids. 10 and 14. We are getting ready to do the whole cruising lifestyle with them.

My kids have participated in sports. My kids are also in gifted and talented academic programs. But that actually only happened after covid.

Why? Because we had a 2nd grader and the schools were failing him during covid so we took it upon ourselves to make sure he didn't fall behind. By the end of summer 2020, my rising third grader had already completed the entire curriculum thru 4th grade.

My oldest son finished an entire high school world history course along with finishing all the math curriculum for his next school year.

All while doing "school work" for 2 hours a day.

I have no intention of this turning political but with the amount of books getting removed for the school systems so our children don't learn history, I don't want them being educated in that way.

And finally, here is my question for you that I hope you will answer. Have you done any research into what you are talking about? As preparation for us choosing this lifestyle, we were concerned about the social aspect. Very quickly, you realize there are huge numbers of people with children around the world who quickly find each other. People cruising with kids find buddy boats. Plan around the new friends you make.

So no, I don't think my son playing soccer at in my suburban area is in any way better than my kids doing things like surfing, swimming, or snorkeling with other kids we meet along the way.

From your post, I feel you are one of those parents that thinks keeping their kids 100% busy 100% of the time is good for their kids. It is scientifically shown NOT to be the case. We have the studies that show boredom is good for your developing brain. It helps with creativity. We do not load our kids up with **** constantly for the sake of it.

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

Yes, I have two sons, now 7 and 12. Both are in gifted programs in the public schools. I do not take credit for this, although my wife has done a lot. They have professional teachers trained and experienced in teaching children, with special gifted programs with an additional teacher for further development. You cannot duplicate that on a boat. My wife and I both have graduate degrees, but we are not professional educators.

Just to give you a day-in-the-life perspective to show you the difference, here are some events from the last 5 days. On Thursday, the PTA put on a second grade musical program, with group singing, jokes and nontraditional musical instruments. My son stood on a stage with a dozens of other second graders in front of several hundred parents and relatives for a performance. His best friend/”girlfriend” stood next to him in the performance and probably had some kinds of conversations before and after.

On Saturday, I drove my older son to a birthday party of his friends at an indoor trampoline/climbing wall/zip-line park. He had fun playing at this indoor facility with a dozen other classmates, away from his parents, enjoying pizza and birthday cake.

Yesterday, we went sailing, with a fast food lunch on the way to the boat, followed by a home-cooked Chinese dinner at home.

I am not sure exactly how these diverse activities affect my sons, but I am sure they are much better for developed, well-rounded children than those stuck on a small boat, educated by their parents, with all those limitations. The best you can say is, “well, my child stood on the beach at Vanatu, or went into the town at Papeete,” after spending two months stuck on a boat with only his or her parents. That is an environment lacking in the full spectrum of socialization and development. You do not know what your kids might be missing by confining them to a cruising lifestyle.

Further, I did not force my children to do anything, other than go to school each morning and go to bed at night. They exercised free will and the ability to choose.

It must be nice to feel that superiority of being a better parent than the rest of us...

[jordanbigel]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

Cruising kid wants to grow up to be a YouTuber and learn how to show off his future girlfriend's T&A to increase revenue for more free cruising. Little bit of a cultural difference there.

Was there a poll which showed that cruising YouTubers are mostly cruising kids?

I am not into YouTube cruisers and dont watch them, so I really don't know - are they all ex-cruising kids? Can you cite any references to back this up? Where are you getting this stuff?

[HeinSdL]

I also have kids! And they're gifted too! So there, said it.

Now I wouldn't want to say how good or how bad I am as a parent but I can say that to draw a conclusion about the ideal way of bringing up a kid based on that Guardian article is complete nonsense. That father seemed to have been a bit of an idiot and cruel as far as I can tell. The concept of idiocy for sure is reinforced by him buying such an ugly boat on which to live for ten, TEN, years, not bothering to put some tension on the luff (after 5+ years or so this is figure-out-able, no?, the kid definitely looked more grown up in that photo with the luff) and allowing a crewmember to happily sit there on the bowsprit without a lifejacket/being tied on in quite rough weather. Running away from your kids is also not conducive to being a good parent. So let's not make this into a how-to on bringing up kids because, well, the starting point is not that challenging. It's friggin' obvious.

[Gadagirl]

I think it's maybe rare that cruising parents are as neglectful as her parents seem to have been. I didn't mean to start an argument. I meant to help share her perspective because we rarely hear anything negative about cruising kids. And she's hurting , telling her story, and is a part of the cruising community. So she deserves a voice.

I meant this to be a thought provoking moment for people continplating taking children cruising and for them to realize the preparation that must be taken into education and socialization. To seriously come up with a good plan.

It's so true that even children of normal intelligence can not be properly educated by their parents alone, and that perhaps planning on high quality correspondence or online education should be well researched before embarking on a years long cruise.

And as on land , where children are neglected (a form of mental/emotional abuse) there are also children amongst cruisers that might be suffering similar and to keep an eye out for them. She's told one story, I doubt that she's in the majority, but there is bound to be a few others that suffered/suffering the same. I'm just asking to be empathetic and step up and help if you can.

[Fore and Aft]

The main thing to take from the article is that Suzanne Heywood still ended up having a very successful life. Despite missing formal schooling, team sports and organised events (Yawn).
Sailor Sailor I am not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse. But there's no one sure way to turn children into successful adults. I can't believe you think that standing on a beach or visiting a capital city in a foreign country is an environment lacking in socialisation and development. Try that in a country where English is not widely spoken and suddenly the whole family is learning and absorbing a different way of life. Our family never comes back from an overseas trip (Yes we take them out of school) saying that was a waste of time and we didn't learn anything. Your Covid learning gap again reflects more on the parents than on the student. Our kids maintained their average grade during covid due to our input as parents. The wife and I both never stopped working full time. Being self employed allowed me to supervise the kids doing schooling regardless if the car, boat brokers office or picnic table was the classroom. As for selling soft porn disguised as sailing on YouTube that's hilarious. The kids I meet on boats and land don't think like that. Maybe that's a discussion you have around your dining table with your kids to try and increase their karate and musical audience. That's certainly not our family values.
Gadagirl like every memoir we are only getting one side of the story. Some of my favourite books in this genre have turned out to be more novel than fact. When published other people in the story then have had a chance to put their side forward. I would like to see what Suzannes brother John has to say?
Cheers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanne_Heywood

[Gadagirl]

I'm also curious if any members came across them in their own travels. They might have said "What a wonderfully mature young girl. Doing her studies, taking care of her sibling. Brought up on a boat and well rounded" without fully understanding her reality.

As I said it happens to a persentage of children world wide on land. It's not so far fetched there is a percentage among cruisers.

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

The main thing to take from the article is that Suzanne Heywood still ended up having a very successful life. Despite missing formal schooling, team sports and organised events (Yawn).
Sailor Sailor I am not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse. But there's no one sure way to turn children into successful adults. I can't believe you think that standing on a beach or visiting a capital city in a foreign country is an environment lacking in socialisation and development. Try that in a country where English is not widely spoken and suddenly the whole family is learning and absorbing a different way of life. Our family never comes back from an overseas trip (Yes we take them out of school) saying that was a waste of time and we didn't learn anything. Your Covid learning gap again reflects more on the parents than on the student. Our kids maintained their average grade during covid due to our input as parents. The wife and I both never stopped working full time. Being self employed allowed me to supervise the kids doing schooling regardless if the car, boat brokers office or picnic table was the classroom. As for selling soft porn disguised as sailing on YouTube that's hilarious. The kids I meet on boats and land don't think like that. Maybe that's a discussion you have around your dining table with your kids to try and increase their karate and musical audience. That's certainly not our family values.
Gadagirl like every memoir we are only getting one side of the story. Some of my favourite books in this genre have turned out to be more novel than fact. When published other people in the story then have had a chance to put their side forward. I would like to see what Suzannes brother John has to say?
Cheers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanne_Heywood

But her parents were not like you. And were not like Sailor sailor. Her parents abandoned and neglected her education, socialization, even her health. Totally different argument.
Don't be defensive. It's a story from a cruising kid that did not have a good experience for her. Yes she's not dead, or in a mental institution and is carving out a productive life in spite of her circumstances. But that does not mean that she didn't need to overcome abuse and neglect. She's strong. She over came the shortfalls of the adults that surrounded her. That's her strength. Not yours, not her parents.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

But her parents were not like you. And were not like Sailor sailor. Her parents abandoned and neglected her education, socialization, even her health. Totally different argument.
Don't be defensive. It's a story from a cruising kid that did not have a good experience for her. Yes she's not dead, or in a mental institution and is carving out a productive life in spite of her circumstances. But that does not mean that she didn't need to overcome abuse and neglect. She's strong. She over came the shortfalls of the adults that surrounded her. That's her strength. Not yours, not her parents.