Kids and dogs and cats, oh my!

[JPA Cate]

@CamWrenRoo,

I'm one of the ancients here, and I have a different point of view.....

I think you've picked an almost perfect size. For hundreds of years, sailboats were 1:3 beam to length. You'll want to look at something like a Crealock 34, perhaps. Dogs are amazingly adaptable, and cats usually take to boats very well. A cozy family that likes to be together is a perfect fit.

Don't let other people's needs and expectations drive you, follow your own instincts. Maybe a Westsail 32 might suit, if your kid can have his own quarterberth? a quiet space when needed? They were built with storage for ocean voyages in mind, and it is storage that will be a bugaboo for you, so maybe worth a look. They are not fast, nor glamorous, but solid, steady workhorses.

As you look at boats, you will find that interior volume increases a lot with length. Unless your budget grows to them, forget catamarans.

Find yourself a well kept sturdy workhorse, look for excellent condition. With luck, you'll find a bargain, and then can get started. Don't plan to go offshore before a couple of years, till the corona virus pandemic has settled down, and travel restrictions are relaxed. Personally, I expect used boats' prices to plummet, because folks still have to pay berth fees.

Ann, cruising with Jim since 1983

[tankersteve]

Hi, neighbor!

Perhaps you should consider a center cockpit cruiser in the mid/upper-30s range. They feel 'safe' when sailing, even with kids and pets, and having a separate space for yourself/spouse is critical IMHO.

I'm not a huge fan of the Irwin 37 by reputation (oilcanning hull, generally not so high-quality fit-out and scantling), but this layout would work for you. That settee by the double bunk says 'dog bunk' to me, and the kid can have the v-berth (or sleep with the dog - enough room). Possibly only use one head as a dedicated shower, or turn it into storage/pantry. Bimini hardware looks good. Solid bulwarks, but you might want to add a second (synthetic?) lifeline. And it is close by and the price is "right".

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...ckpit-3212388/

Westerly also made a center cockpit in this length (range). My dad has one and really enjoys it. However, IMO, it feels like a submarine when down, down below.

Tankersteve

[roverhi]

We lived very comfortably with a cat, two Labs, sans kid on a Westsail 32. Another custom W32 with a quarter berth had been cruising and living aboard for quite awhile with a young boy but no animals. Because of the wide beam of the Westsail the quarter berth was quite roomy at least at the forward end and could be closed off with a curtain. It was his own domain and remember being on the boat when he had a friend over playing in the quarter berth and not intruding at all into the adult area. There was a 34' Islander with 3 young girls that seemed to be doing well though that had to be a very harmonious family.

There were a few other boats under 35' that were cruising. One boat had a helicopter mother who smothered her boy and gave little discipline. The boy was a terror actually hid his grandmother's false teeth when she visited in Mexico and didn't reveal them till after she left. The boy had the use of a hard dinghy and slowly asserted his independence and became a much better adjusted individual as their cruise extended to SoPac.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the animals but finding a living arrangement on a small boat that works will be the challenge. As I mentioned above, a quarter berth may be the solution to that.

[iyamwhatiyam]

Is the dog high or low energy? We have 3 Mini-Aussies and being cooped up in the cabin of our Catalina 30 was a bit much like a prison sentence, (OK, more like a night in the drunk tank, not that I would know what that's like). Does your dog need to walked every day? On the other hand, our doxie would be fun to have aboard.

I like cats, (bright, open, room to get away from THAT person), having sailed them out of Moorings in the BVIs, of course I didn't need to worry about the purchase price and storage and maintenance. I think the dogs wouldn't mind the spaciousness. Also, I could name it Schroedinger and make jokes about having enough room to swing it.

[Nickodemus]

I'm not going to comment on the size of the boat that would be right for you other than to say we are full time cruisers on a 49 foot boat, and it's just me, my husband and our cat. It's not so much about the humans (and pets) as it is about STUFF. People who live on a boat 6 months and on shore for 6 months have a totally different perspective. Between clothing, tools, bedding, towels, pots and pans, extra provisioning (when you are going to be away for a while and need to stock up), you need more room than you think.



Secondly, I have an autistic nephew. Autism is such a wide spectrum, so I can't judge by your comment as to whether he is high functioning or low functioning. My nephew is low functioning and LOVES LOVES the water, and my fear is that he would be jumping overboard all the time - he has no fear of the water at all. Other than that, I don't think the confined space would bother him - they know what they like and they like what they know (to quote Genesis - not the Bible).


Lastly - the cat. Cats like to roam. If you're planning on staying at a marina, you run the risk of him/her running off and getting on someone else's boat. Cats usually don't come when they are called like a dog will. So get your cat used to walking on a leash with a good harness, and plan on tethering him at the boat. We have a five-year old cat on board, and as soon as we dock, he is off the boat and exploring unless we have him in check. There are many stories about cats showing up on other people's boats long after they have sailed away. Also, if you are planning on sailing the Caribbean, I totally disagree with the person who said they don't care much about the dog or cat down there. The BVI's and several of the other islands are manic about rabies vaccinnations (Titer) and will seize your pet if it doesn't comply. Also, many islands require a permit to bring your pet along. We are in the Bahamas right now and have to get an annual permit for the cat in order to bring him in. I'm sure some people don't declare them, but God forbid you have to fly your cat somewhere for emergency services - you'd better have a copy of your permit and rabies certificate with you. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.


Good luck - I wish you well and hope that you can make it work.

[CamWrenRoo]

Thank you so much everyone!
We have our eyes on a catamaran that's at the top of the list right now.
I'm thinking that's a great set up for us, as there's way more space.
Neither of us have any experience sailing cats though...
Any opinions on a used hand built wharram 38 tiki? It lost its masts and part of it's decking in a storm, but the beams are sounds. Current owner has already rebuilt most of the decking.
Thanks!

[CamWrenRoo]

Thanks you all for your suggestions! We're purchasing a very nice S2 9.2 with a center cockpit and a big aft cabin. We think it's perfect! The galley is a bit small, but it checks off every other box. It's exactly what we want - a smaller boat with a spacious cabin, with separate area for grownups to maintain sanity. The ladder is steep, but we're super crafty and my husband has good carpentry skills, so I think we can set up a more accommodating step system for the pooch. She was hit by a car a few years back and had a broken leg, so shell need a more forgiving step. But she's only 32 pounds, so a quick boost might do it too.
thanks everyone!

[redhead]

Congratulations! Wishing you many years and nautical miles of laughter and adventures!

[Aircool]

It all depend on your budget. There is a huge difference between a 90´s 35 foot boat and the new generation

My wife, my dog and I are cruising full time on a 35.1 Oceanis, the cockpit is the same size as most 10-15 years old 40 footer, the interior is still small but have a king size bed in our bed room, to give you an idea.

So, for you need maybe a bit small but a 38.1 could be the perfect boat. Easy to handle, simple etc...

[KP44]

Great choice. I have never been on an S2. But people I know who have them speak very highly of them.

[merrydolphin]

A multi hull would be wonderful, but don’t know your budget. As far a monos go. Yes as some have said, a center cockpit would be very nice. There are so many out there used, that you have a big choice of boats and budget. I have no problem single handing my Cal 2-46, 46 ft ketch in my mid 60”s. Single line reefing, power primary’s or power winch handle a la Milwaukee 90 deg drill, Roller furling and or sail cover/jack system, good autopilots a must. etc. there are Cal 46’s on the market from 50 to 130k. Wonderful boats. So many have circumnavigated. I have put 10’s of thousands of ocean miles on mine. And of course this is just one boat. There are many. Usually the minimum size practical for CC is around 40’. For me, at least, this would be my choice if I couldn’t afford an multi, and I can’t.

[Bentwings]

I have no experience with sail boats other than have on parked along side for a couple months so I’ll be talking about a power cruiser mostly. My boat is 34’ waterline 401 OAL.
It has a traditional forward berth and small soft berth. My dog too k over the soft berth. I can handle the forward berth other than it’s too high off the deck.
Actuall the cabin is ok for two people full time . The head is too small for two people there is. It enough capacity. Maybe a newer boat would have a bit more room. The refrigerator is too small for two hungry people. You need ready access to your car or truck, to go to the grocery store. In the summer there is topside room but constantly going dockside will be a pain. My dog is highly trained so is completly controllable on the boat and dock. However she has fallen in the slip at least 5 times including the winter when the water temp was 33 deg f. That was cold and the dock was ice covered. I wound up in the hospital eith multiple abrasions . The brand new leash broke the snap. It was clearly due to hydrogen imbrillement.. even though it was premium priced it had cheap snaps. I now have a $50 two handle leather leash with stainless steel snaps. A cabin table that is 2x3 fee is way too big even if it folds out of the way. Counter space quickly gets taken up so you need a good sized trash can. There is no room for left overs so you eat your meals completely or the dog gets them. Some train the dog to go potty on mats that get washed in the sea or river. Otherwise you need 2-3 trips to shore for potty walks, you need a place to throw poop bags. Thr marina trash bin works. The boat shower will get tedious after while unless you are used to tight quarters. If it gets cold like it does her you will need ice tools. To keep the. Boat clear. Winter shrinkwrap helps with heating. I’m scared of propane yet used it for 6 months this year. You need a propane station close by. And every couple days it’s a trip, hopefully groceries same day. In the end I would recommend a 40 footer water line . Cruisers are about 11-12 feet beam or larger so much more room.kids and dogs can increase room needed dramatically. No matter how you do it food storage is a problem. There just is not a lot of room that you may be used to having. Cold winters like ours mak jacket and boot storage an issue too. Basically everyone needs to be mutually friendly. There just isn’t room for knock down arguments.even TVspacs is limited. I had mine wrapped in clear plastic so topside was more usable. When it was really cold it was a good cooler. We had water available so other than limited hot water it was not an issue. If you buy bottled water you have to get rid of bottles and packaging.

So bottom line is Ger as big of boat as you can afford. If the marina doesn’t have winter bath house then washing cloths becomes time consuming. Being a senior citizen with medical insurance I had health club membership but it still means travel.

Now the most serious. I never gave it a thought. I had a stroke in the middle of the winter. Two trips to the ER AND ENDLESS DOC APPOINTMENTS. SO CONSIDER YOUR HEALTH AND WHAT YOU CAN DO JN EMERGENCY. I HAVE GREAT FRIENDS AND A SECOND MOTHER IN A WONDERFUL SISTER. SO A BLESSING.

[DanRussell]

First of all, I want to congratulate you on the fact that you decided to take such a steep step, I hope you will succeed. I would like to ask you a small question that does not apply to the topic. You wrote that you have a small dog, can you tell us more about it? What breed, how old is it? I'm thinking about getting a bulldog, but I don't know what the best course of action is in this situation. I learned a lot of information about this breed thanks to bulldogpapa.com But I still feel like I don't know enough (no, it's not paranoia). I will be really happy if you answer. Thank you in advance, as well as good luck in your relocation, I am sure that you will succeed!

[JPA Cate]

Hello, Dan Russell,

If I were you, I'd look at either mutts or one of the water dog breeds. Maybe a Schipperke would suit? or a Portuguese Water Dog? or, one of the poodle sizes? I would stay away from large solid breeds with pushed in faces, as swimming is difficult for them.

Having said all that, I will also say that Jim and I decided not to have a pet on board, mostly because life on long passages would be hard on them, and it is too easy to get yourself into a situation where you cannot go back for the pet that slipped overboard. Neither one of us wanted to subject ourselves to that grief.

Ann

[jimbojonesbos]

I love sailing, I love dogs. But you couldn't pay me enough to live aboard a medium size cruising boat with kids dogs and cats. It would have to be a REALLY REALLY big boat and probably a power boat where every stop is a day away. Kids need space but can use marine heads and play on the dinghy. Dogs need space but can't use a marine head. Two dog owning sailors I know have trained their dog to poop on the foredeck so they don't need to go ashore multiple times a day so the dog can poop/pee. Both for convenience and also because lots of place don't allow dogs on the beach. That's just nasty... Can you imagine inviting a person to squat and drop one on your foredeck or pee all over your cabin top.



That is a hard pass for me. But good luck in your boat search, be sure to spend some time on a boat with the family and pets to see if you enjoy the reality with the animals as much as the dream before you buy anything.