How did you get from house to boat?

[achil]

Originally Posted by LF4

Thank you, iSaint. We appreciate the encouragement.

What skills and lesson should we learn along the way? Where should we take classes? We are in Philadelphia, the largest fresh water port in the world, does it make sense for us to buy a starter boat 2 years out from now to take out and get more experience, or is it better to just rent a boat a few times for a long weekend? What type of budget should be expected? Plus 1,000 other questions we should be asking but do not even know to ask!

I wouldn't say there is a lack of desire, but know how, that is setting younger folks back.

I would make it a priority to learn how to sail and be able to sail a couple times per week on a regular basis. Check around for a sailing club that own their own boats and also teach sailing. Join one of those clubs and after a couple of years you will be better prepared to know if you want this as a lifestyle. Participate in everything the club does. Many clubs go sailing a couple times a week but they also race. If they own their own boats they will do their own repairs, and you can learn a lot there.

Take some classes in diesel engine repair, electrical, carpentry, painting, and anything else you think may help you to maintain a boat. Even if you have enough cash to pay for those things on your boat, you may be in a remote area when something goes wrong that you have to fix yourself.

Good luck

[Donald Bryden]

It bothers me when people with little or no experience decide to drop everything and head out to sea. It especially bothers me when young children are involved. I would suggest the two adults get as much experience as possible before buying your boat. Paying off debt and buying a boat is an oxymoron. A boat, any boat, is going to cost more than you would expect. If you can get time off work, I would suggest you crew on boats making passages. The more boats you crew on, the more you will discover what you like and don't like. Experienced skippers can teach you a lot, and for any given task, there are often many ways to do it. Learn, learn, learn. If practicable, you can get good sailing skills by crewing on local races. The off shore passage making skills thought are more important. Keep an open mind, because this life isn't for everyone. There is no shame in changing you mind after experiencing the life. I have met several cruiser families that sold everything on shore and after a short time swallowed the anchor. In my case, after sailing on many boats and complaining about various aspects of the boats, I decided to build my own. Note: I don't recommend this route unless you find it particularly attractive. While building the boat, I lived in a rented apartment. As I was finishing up, I decided there were a lot of things that I owned that I didn't want to part with, and even though my full time home would be on the water, I wanted a base I could return to. That's when I went house shopping and got lucky. Whatever you do, get some off shore experience.

[daveball]

Read Dreamers and Doers by Arlene Galisky available on Amazon. Should cover all your questions.

[human000]

LF4

First of all - thank you for starting this thread. It has been extremely educational, from a certain point of view.

I do not have the opportunity you have. I did not make the kinds of decisions that you have made in life. I’m a vagabond - always have been, always will be. It’s probably the Viking blood coursing through my veins.

However, I am a serial entrepreneur. You learn to be industrious and adaptable on the road. I have no real debt - no car payment, no mortgage. So that’s a plus. That means that I don’t have anything to sell for money to purchase a sailboat. So my options are severely limited.

My plan is to document my journey on my blog. I also plan to start using my many creative skills to develop other passive income streams (as many as possible). While I’m at it, I plan to pitch in at marinas/boatyards nearby for experience repairing/maintaining sailboats. I also plan to crew for people in the area to gain sailing experience.

There are many books to read, YouTube videos to watch, classes to take, and forum posts to pour over, as well. (I would suggest reading Sailing a Serious Ocean by John Kretschmer. It is a treasure trove of information written by one of the best sailing instructors in the world.)

Anyway, I wish you all the luck in the world. It has been my dream for over two decades now to sail aimlessly around the world, yet the ocean eludes me every time I try to focus on her. I don’t plan on allowing that to happen this time around, as I am getting older and the Dream is starting to feel like it is slipping away from me. My actual advice to you is to stop being so damned practical and follow the advice of Nike’s marketing team.

I know - you have children, which is an awesome responsibility. Responsibilities tend to pile up and crush dreams if you allow them to. Just one vagrant’s two cents.

[ikebartlett]

Many ways to do this, I took ASA lessons to the level required to rent a Bareboat ( Bahamas - Croatia- Virgin Islands.....) and planned to rent a sailboat and vacation/learn/test/try or wipe from future life plans, I ended up purchasing a 40' C&C and upgraded and/or added several systems/equipment. You're a few years out on your plans so you may want to join a Yacht Club with learner programs, I believe you will really enjoy the people you meet and the advice you get (wanted or not) and,,, well just the whole experience. Good Luck
Captain Ike - Sailing Florence Clara

[Joe P]

Very interesting thread, as my family and I are in a similar situation to you guys (wife and I and our 7 year old boy), but we're a few years older (39 & 37). I just spent an hour and a half reading through this thread, and figured I'd chime in.

I've been looking for the same type of advice for the past few years also, wanting to know the specifics of how one makes the transition to the cruising life. There are some great books out there (I've amassed a collection of over 200 sailing-related books over the past 3 years, and, have actually read about 15 of them!), but ultimately, we know hands-on experience is a far better teacher (as others have already stated).


Transitioning to the cruising life:

It's difficult to determine the correct way of doing this.

Some here have recommended to slowly transition over - periodically downsize possessions, start out with a smaller boat and then trade up, etc. This the safest route, since turning back is easy.

BUT, that's also the problem. If turning back's easy, there's little incentive to stick with it. The alternative, then, is to jump right in and sell everything and cast off (after reasonable preparation). It's much riskier (and we've heard of a few failures in this thread's posts), but since "Failure isn't an option" because there's nothing to go back to, you'd be more inclined to make it work.

"The Cruising Life : A Commonsense Guide for the Would-Be Voyager" by Jim Trefethen (an excellent book) discusses this, and eventually recommends the latter approach (if I'm not mistaken). Of course, this is after a ton of planning. And, boat purchase is the last step. They rented out their house when they first left for cruising, leaving them the option to move back in someday. He concluded that this was ultimately a mistake. It was weird seeing other people live in "their house", and after a while, they became detached from it and wished they had just sold it outright. They kept a car, so that when returning to the states, they'd have transportation. Maintenance was neglected since they were always gone. After a few years of sporadic use, it wouldn't start, needed tires, and was filthy. They wished they sold that earlier as well.

Jim also advises NOT to charter a boat, but instead to add that money to your "cruising kitty" (cruising fund).



Passive Income:

I've read that many people try to be landlords (and/or run a business) while out cruising, and I've picked up that it seldom works.

Ideally, we want to own real estate, in the sector of our choosing (commercial, industrial, residential, or, diversified among them), and have someone else, preferably a team of experts, manage the properties. Also, we'd like to have an easy way to sell our share of the business, if we don't like the way it's being run. Luckily, we can accomplish all of this with REIT's (Real Estate Investment Trusts), which are traded publicly, and pay a nice quarterly (or in some cases, monthly) dividend. Personally, we made the decision years ago to invest in REITs (among other investment vehicles) rather than directly owning and managing physical properties ourselves, in preparation of our own casting-off. Check tax implications before you dive in though, as these dividends are taxed as short term gains. Some are structured as limited partnerships (LP's) which can make tax filings a nightmare.


Expenses:

Are you sure you want a $1/4 Million boat? A recurring theme I've picked up from experienced cruisers is to "simplify, simplify, simplify". ANY boat is going to feel small compared to the houses that most of us Americans are accustomed to.

Boat expenses increase exponentially with length. Also, I'd assume you'd insure a boat at that cost point, which may require periodic surveys and can (will) dictate when and where you cruise (as in, ensuring you avoid certain areas during hurricane season). All this, and don't forget the insurance premiums.

More expensive boats also attract attention, which I feel should be avoided. Example: A new outboard on the dinghy is a big bright target for thieves. I've heard multiple times where people will take their brand new outboard and spray paint it some ugly color (or, bright orange!) to deter theft.



So, I guess if I could sum up my advice to you guys (which we're currently following ourselves):
- Get some sailing experience, and buy the (big) boat as the last step. Can you guys relocate to a coastal area where sailing's easier?
- I echo the advice to get a smaller boat to learn on. This can be done for less than $5k (I know you guys can't own a trailerable one now; just saying if you relocate. Or, get a slip.)
- Read, a lot. Nothing wrong with being an "armchair sailor" for a while. It's a cheap education.
- Learn boat maintenance
- Learn meal prep and cooking for yourselves. Some say the galley is the most important part of the boat; if the crew isn't properly fed, they're not happy, and the cruise is over.
- Develop passive income, and/or work remotely
- Go as simple and as small as you can

(Just my opinions, worth as much as you paid for them!)

[CaptainsWench]

We actually did what you are asking. We did not have small children and both retired. My hubby and I have been on some kind of boats all of our life, but not a sailboat. My hubby read everything and retains what he reads. We bought our 47-1/2- 14 ft wide, Helsen Hunter 2001 Sailboat. It’s a 46 foot Hunter with additional space added on, sugar scoop, 3 births and 2 Heads. I loved her. She needed updates which we did before we left the marina. Okay, now we have the boat but still have a house full of stuff. We had 5 garage sales, 5 Harley’s, 2 Corvette and plus a Ranger Bass Boat and a truck. It took us a year too get it all sold including the house. We sold it all down except one car and the truck and started living on the boat in the marina to learn everything about the boat. There is so much information on a marina. Everyone helps with anything you need to know. We cruised, sailed and anchored out. We sailed around Florida and to the Bahamas several times and up and down the east coat. My goal was to make. It to Maine, which we did. We loved sailing....but to make this short, We put up the boat for sale last year. My hubby started having medical issues and now we are back in Texas buying another house and buying the stuff all over again. We really had no plans to be landlubbers again but here we are due to medical issues. If anyone interested in a blue water sailboat, we have one for sale.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Joe P

Very interesting thread, as my family and I are in a similar situation to you guys (wife and I and our 7 year old boy), but we're a few years older (39 & 37). I just spent an hour and a half reading through this thread, and figured I'd chime in.

I've been looking for the same type of advice for the past few years also, wanting to know the specifics of how one makes the transition to the cruising life. There are some great books out there (I've amassed a collection of over 200 sailing-related books over the past 3 years, and, have actually read about 15 of them!), but ultimately, we know hands-on experience is a far better teacher (as others have already stated).


Transitioning to the cruising life:

It's difficult to determine the correct way of doing this.

Some here have recommended to slowly transition over - periodically downsize possessions, start out with a smaller boat and then trade up, etc. This the safest route, since turning back is easy.

BUT, that's also the problem. If turning back's easy, there's little incentive to stick with it. The alternative, then, is to jump right in and sell everything and cast off (after reasonable preparation). It's much riskier (and we've heard of a few failures in this thread's posts), but since "Failure isn't an option" because there's nothing to go back to, you'd be more inclined to make it work.

"The Cruising Life : A Commonsense Guide for the Would-Be Voyager" by Jim Trefethen (an excellent book) discusses this, and eventually recommends the latter approach (if I'm not mistaken). Of course, this is after a ton of planning. And, boat purchase is the last step. They rented out their house when they first left for cruising, leaving them the option to move back in someday. He concluded that this was ultimately a mistake. It was weird seeing other people live in "their house", and after a while, they became detached from it and wished they had just sold it outright. They kept a car, so that when returning to the states, they'd have transportation. Maintenance was neglected since they were always gone. After a few years of sporadic use, it wouldn't start, needed tires, and was filthy. They wished they sold that earlier as well.

Jim also advises NOT to charter a boat, but instead to add that money to your "cruising kitty" (cruising fund).



Passive Income:

I've read that many people try to be landlords (and/or run a business) while out cruising, and I've picked up that it seldom works.

Ideally, we want to own real estate, in the sector of our choosing (commercial, industrial, residential, or, diversified among them), and have someone else, preferably a team of experts, manage the properties. Also, we'd like to have an easy way to sell our share of the business, if we don't like the way it's being run. Luckily, we can accomplish all of this with REIT's (Real Estate Investment Trusts), which are traded publicly, and pay a nice quarterly (or in some cases, monthly) dividend. Personally, we made the decision years ago to invest in REITs (among other investment vehicles) rather than directly owning and managing physical properties ourselves, in preparation of our own casting-off. Check tax implications before you dive in though, as these dividends are taxed as short term gains. Some are structured as limited partnerships (LP's) which can make tax filings a nightmare.


Expenses:

Are you sure you want a $1/4 Million boat? A recurring theme I've picked up from experienced cruisers is to "simplify, simplify, simplify". ANY boat is going to feel small compared to the houses that most of us Americans are accustomed to.

Boat expenses increase exponentially with length. Also, I'd assume you'd insure a boat at that cost point, which may require periodic surveys and can (will) dictate when and where you cruise (as in, ensuring you avoid certain areas during hurricane season). All this, and don't forget the insurance premiums.

More expensive boats also attract attention, which I feel should be avoided. Example: A new outboard on the dinghy is a big bright target for thieves. I've heard multiple times where people will take their brand new outboard and spray paint it some ugly color (or, bright orange!) to deter theft.



So, I guess if I could sum up my advice to you guys (which we're currently following ourselves):
- Get some sailing experience, and buy the (big) boat as the last step. Can you guys relocate to a coastal area where sailing's easier?
- I echo the advice to get a smaller boat to learn on. This can be done for less than $5k (I know you guys can't own a trailerable one now; just saying if you relocate. Or, get a slip.)
- Read, a lot. Nothing wrong with being an "armchair sailor" for a while. It's a cheap education.
- Learn boat maintenance
- Learn meal prep and cooking for yourselves. Some say the galley is the most important part of the boat; if the crew isn't properly fed, they're not happy, and the cruise is over.
- Develop passive income, and/or work remotely
- Go as simple and as small as you can

(Just my opinions, worth as much as you paid for them!)

Not “a few failures,” actually the the failure rate is very high. I’d put the failure rate closer to 90% within the first 18 months., and 60% at under a year.

Most just get fed up with the repairs, especially when they enter into this lifestyle expecting others to do them.

[Icarus]

Probably better to get some sailing experience first, since you are plainly not the go and do it sort of person.
U and ur partner might like a boating live style or maybe not.
So start out small.. If possible buy, borrow or charter a vessel for a couple of weeks.
However, the real teacher is nature... Her lessons can be quite harch and definite...
So my advice is
Start small get some boat handling experience
Live in the now the future is unknown
Don't spent money you don't seem to have right now
But it's up to you
Good luck

[JC Reefer]

And don’t give up.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by SharAndy

Saddest man I ever met told his story at a Looper Gathering....Had sold his business; sold his home; sold most possessions and moved aboard his 'new' boat in anticipation of a number of years of full time cruising. This was DAY THREE of being aboard. With tears in his eyes, he announced the boat was for sale...Wife hated it all.

With small boat experience, mostly on lakes, we caught the 'bug' but spent several years (while working full time) exploring the type of ocean going boat we'd ultimately purchase. We took a number of classes during those years in order to strengthen our skill set (ie Diesel engine repair; advanced first aid; navigation; weather; etc etc). We poured over various blogs and other publications such as this one for insights. We also charted boats for 10 days at a time ( BVI three times & Belize). Retiring, we were both on the same page that this was our mutual dream. Bought a trawler, sold the house; downsized but kept two large storage units of the Cannot Give Away furniture, etc. Full time cruising from Canada thru the Caribbean for 6 years. Never a moment of look back. Sold the trawler and settled back on land. Only issue was "Why in the name of god did I store THIS?". Way tooo much in storage. Now, a few years later, just purchased another boat because we miss cruising so much...but not back to full time cruising... just a few months at a time such as in the Bahamas.

Morale of the story: Prepare Prepare Prepare. As fyi we met many couples and insights are all over the board as to selling/renting out your home. Some sold as we did; some rented out their home and some of those promptly sold it upon return and wished they'd sold it long ago. Some were happy to move back 'home' and pick up where they left off. I will tell you the years of cruising will change your outlook, your perspective and your values.

Just go for it. Don't ever have to say, "I wish I had......."

I’ve heard stories of people doing the same thing. Significant partner throws up on first day out... the dream then becomes an expensive nightmare.

[alctel]

Couldn't ever hope to afford a house, bought a boat instead as something I could afford to own and live on, discovered I really liked sailing to my great surprise.

Spent 4 years refitting/equipping the boat (while living on it) and learnt how to sail while saving as much as possible so I could afford to go cruising.

I quit my job last May and seeing how far around the world I can get on 25k CAD

[alctel]

Originally Posted by SharAndy

Saddest man I ever met told his story at a Looper Gathering....Had sold his business; sold his home; sold most possessions and moved aboard his 'new' boat in anticipation of a number of years of full time cruising. This was DAY THREE of being aboard. With tears in his eyes, he announced the boat was for sale...Wife hated it all.

Get the boat before you get a wife/partner, ideally... ugh that's a brutal story

[Don C L]

We really need a thread devoted to how to successfully get sailing (and stay sailing and stay together!) with a partner, and children, when you both are new to sailing/cruising

well here's one maybe, just as an FYI
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ce-186890.html

[epoxyman]

Hello
When I was 49 and again when I was 51 my wife and I took our 3 kids cruising for 13 months and then again for 12 months (was going to be 2 years, but that was another story).
We had never been more than 40 miles from our mooring before we cut the lines.
First trip was on a Pearson 365 and the second trip was on a Whitby 42. Both older boats that I refit ( not a lot of experience but willing to bloody my knuckles).
We home schooled (first trip kids were 5, 10, &13).
If you want to contact me off line I can share with you what we learned about sailing, cruising, our kids, and ourselves.
I have written a number of articles about our experiences.
I am now 61 and getting ready to head off again on a Cal 39 MK2.
Best regards
Andy = andyschoenb@gmail.com