Cruising and live aboard with 4 kids. Is it possible?

[TrentePieds]

Hello Smart :-)

To spend such a large proportion of your total budget on just the acquisition of a boat, may prove to be a problem in the long run even if the boat is very well equipped. I'll see if I can get out a more extensive comment tomorrow.

Please think also about the fact that a Regal Express doesn't prepare you in ANY way for a little "real ship" such as this. I see that Ann, who has done years and years in a boat that will really sail, has already made a gentle noise to the effect that a MOTORSAILER, which this beast is, is not really the best choice for ocean navigation. For half the coat of this beast, you can get something that will do a better job of doing what you say is your ultimate goal - crossing oceans.

Till tomorrow :-)

TP

[chall]

Originally Posted by Smart555

Thank you!
We make little research in our budget we can buy also 38” catamaran ( lagoon 380 or leopard) araund 2003Y
What you think about 38”cat 2003Y vs Jeanneau 49 2006-2007Y?

I think that is a very comparable choice.

Deciding between the two I think will come down to preference in terms of Monohull vs Catamaran.

I am predominantly a monhull sailor, but yes there is a lot to like about a cat for a family cruising. Without rehashing the mono vs cat debate do your research and decide which way you guys feel works.

One point I would raise is that the Jeanneau 49 has a 2.35m ( I think that's 7ft ?) draft which is becoming a little prohibitive.

Have you guys ever chartered?

If not I would suggest booking a 10 day charter on a Lagoon 380 and/or a big Beneteau or Jeanneau. It might help inform your boats decisions and also give you all a chance to see how time together on a boat feels.

[2big2small]

Originally Posted by Smart555

Thank you!
Actually without experience and living in US we feel more comfortable to search the boat in our area, in Florida and nearest states. How much do you think does maintenance, repair and upgrades cost and how long does it usually take?

You can visit boats in your area to get a feel for them, but you can easily save up to 100k by doing the actual purchasing in the Med. You’d only travel once for the one boat you’d then decide to buy. At least if you want a boat that is about 10 years old or less. If you’re looking at really old boats then you can find good prices anywhere. But don’t let me push you out of your comfort zone. If you need to buy local simply do so. I personally don’t care where in the world the boat is as long as everything happens under a serious jurisdiction that can safeguard the transaction.

“Cruising is doing maintenance and repairs in exotic locations.” No matter which boat you buy or how old it is, expect to be working on it pretty much on an ongoing basis. It’s therefore much cheaper and much more flexible if you do all the routine maintenance and exceptional repairs yourself.

Some people say you need to budget 10% of the purchase price per year for repair and maintenance. I think it’s much less if you do it yourself and might be much more if you have it all done.

The cost will depend on the complexity of the boat and its systems, and on its size. The smaler and simpler the boat, the cheaper. I lived 5 years on a basic 36’ ex charter Beneteau and crossed oceans with it. Doing pretty much all of the work myself cost about 1% a year. On my current Beneteau 50 I spent quite a bit of money on upgrades, but on actual repair and maintenance having a fair portion of it done (sailmaker, mechanic) I think it’s about 3% of the purchase price a year. Given the difference in purchase price between the 36 and the 50, I’d say I spend 8 times more per year on the 50 than I did on the 36.

Like somebody else said, don’t start upgrading before you cruised it for at least 6 months. Ballpark prices for possible upgrades you might need would be:
12k for a watermaker + installation cost
12k for a genset + installation
2k for solar panels (if you don’t buy them from a yachting supplier otherwise it’s double) + installation including some sturdy stainless frame to mount them on.
1k for a big battery pack if you don’t want the genset (you have to replace all batteries, you can’t mix old and new or different models.)
3k for a big inverter in that same scenario.
Possibly 2k for efficient refrigeration
4 to 6k per new (cruising) sail if needed
1k or much more for a new dinghy that can hold your whole family plus groceries, if needed.
3k to have the upholstery of the saloon redone.

Originally Posted by Smart555

Thank you!
We make little research in our budget we can buy also 38” catamaran ( lagoon 380 or leopard) araund 2003Y
What you think about 38”cat 2003Y vs Jeanneau 49 2006-2007Y?

I think you’ll get much more for your money with a Jeanneau or Beneteau 49; much more storage space and payload, a much faster boat that points much higher, also overal safer in my opinion (and I’m not even talking about sinking or capsizing), potentially cheaper in marinas and in maintenance, probably 50 to 70k cheaper in initial acquisition cost (price + upgrades). You’re more likely to dind a generator and watermaker already installed on a Beneteau 49 than on a Lagoon 38. You really have to absolutely want the features of a cat very badly to buy one in this price range vs a monohull. If that’s how you feel however, then you should just go ahead if it doesn’t stretch your finances too thin.

Originally Posted by Smart555

Thank you very much for very useful information!
What do you think about this boat?
Or it’s bad options for us?
Used 1989 Wellington Pilothouse, Fort Lauderdale, Fl - 33004 - BoatTrader.com

It’s an old (custom built?) motorsailer and it’s also too expensive for your budget. I would not consider it for more than about 150k, this price reflecting your situation and expected expenses and not the actual fair value for the vessel whatever that may be.

[Ray Perry]

Originally Posted by B00B00

You will have your hands full thats for sure. We are doing it with 3 kids, all boys aged 5, 7 and 9. All going well so far but it is a lot of work.....
It can be very challenging and frustrating but im pretty sure your kids will be better for it.
I lived on a boat as a kid with a family of 7. Allthough it was quite cramped (45ft classic gaffer) we all loved it and all the brothers have salt in their veins. Every one of us 5 boys currently own our own yachts now.

Hows the budget? I would say thats a pretty important factor. Dont try and skimp, it can be an expensive game....

Good on you! I have been cruising for 35 years and the best well adjusted cruising children have been just like you and your siblings. Live your dream.

[chall]

Originally Posted by 2big2small

You can visit boats in your area to get a feel for them, but you can easily save up to 100k by doing the actual purchasing in the Med. You’d only travel once for the one boat you’d then decide to buy. At least if you want a boat that is about 10 years old or less. If you’re looking at really old boats then you can find good prices anywhere. But don’t let me push you out of your comfort zone. If you need to buy local simply do so. I personally don’t care where in the world the boat is as long as everything happens under a serious jurisdiction that can safeguard the transaction.

I will chime in again to say we are doing EXACTLY this for all of the reasons stated.

Even though we are Australian based we are buying and starting our travels in the Med as the same parameters apply. For the boats you are looking at it is fertile ground, it may sound scary but it's actually not that big a deal.

You also then have the forgiving cruising grounds of the Med with associated history and culture for the kids and in terms of a first ocean passage crossing the Atlantic as part of the ARC (who in fact have a very active family division) is not a bad way to go.

As 2big2small stated you are literally looking at 100k off US based pricing. I understand your logistical concerns and if you want a local Florida based cruising boat well thats different but if as you stated you want to travel the world, then start in the Med, put the 100k in the cruising kitty and buy a couple of flights back and forth.

[Smart555]

Thank you everyone!
Because of your suggestions we could narrow our choice and start looking for the right boat for us. We’ve seen several catamarans 38-40” but for living aboard for a long period for 6 people they seemed too small. And we’re not sure about seaworthy and if it would go still OK full loaded. Won’t it be too slow on sail? Of course if we have chance to buy 45-47” Cat it won’t be any questions!
So we started looking for sailing boat 49” Beneteau and Jeanneau. They seem to suit us better, have more space inside and better build quality.
Actually we don’t give up the idea of buying the catamaran. We’ve found one 38” Admiral that looks not bad. But it’s unknown brand for us. What do you think?

[2big2small]

Originally Posted by Smart555

Thank you everyone!
Because of your suggestions we could narrow our choice and start looking for the right boat for us. We’ve seen several catamarans 38-40” but for living aboard for a long period for 6 people they seemed too small. And we’re not sure about seaworthy and if it would go still OK full loaded. Won’t it be too slow on sail? Of course if we have chance to buy 45-47” Cat it won’t be any questions!
So we started looking for sailing boat 49” Beneteau and Jeanneau. They seem to suit us better, have more space inside and better build quality.
Actually we don’t give up the idea of buying the catamaran. We’ve found one 38” Admiral that looks not bad. But it’s unknown brand for us. What do you think?

Don’t worry too much about speed, it’s a nice bonus but not very important. With the small cats payload and water capacity are your primary concern for 6 people. I wouldn’t get a boat with less than 500 liters of water even if you have a watermaker. You can always make do of course if you really must have the cat.

[chall]

Originally Posted by Smart555

Thank you everyone!
Because of your suggestions we could narrow our choice and start looking for the right boat for us. We’ve seen several catamarans 38-40” but for living aboard for a long period for 6 people they seemed too small. And we’re not sure about seaworthy and if it would go still OK full loaded. Won’t it be too slow on sail? Of course if we have chance to buy 45-47” Cat it won’t be any questions!
So we started looking for sailing boat 49” Beneteau and Jeanneau. They seem to suit us better, have more space inside and better build quality.
Actually we don’t give up the idea of buying the catamaran. We’ve found one 38” Admiral that looks not bad. But it’s unknown brand for us. What do you think?

I think you have accurately identified the issue with a cat of the kind and size you are looking at, which is in full cruising mode it is going to be easily over loaded.

In terms of space for the 6 of you and what you think will work for your particular family dynamic that is of course a very individual and subjective decision but i'm not surprised to here that you are finding the larger monohulls a better fit.

I think from a budget point of view your probably going to come out ahead as well with a mono.

That said The Admiral would be a good choice if you went the Catamaran route. Any boat that has sailed on it's own hull from South Africa to Florida you know is capable of 'bluewater' miles. I like the South African built cats in general and this model has a reputation of having a great layout. (Having said all this I have never sailed on one so take my opinion lightly).

Best of luck with the continuing search. Please keep us updated, I would love to know what you eventually purchase and why!

[Korvessa]

Originally Posted by wrwakefield

Sailing with Totem was mentioned as an exemplary cruising family...

They also published a book: Voyaging with Kids in case that is of interest...

I, too, have met many cruising kids over the years, and they have all been way ahead of their land based peers...

I also know a few now as young adults with their own careers. Magnificent individuals all...

Best wishes deciding what is best for you and your family.

Cheers! Bill

I second Bill's recommendation of this book. We've been sailing with 2 boys each summer for the past 5 years and are about to move aboard and live full time on the boat.

If you use facebook, consider looking up, and joining the group called "kids4sail". It's very informative and supportive.

Fair winds!

[getyourbone]

We are currently anchored next to a family of 5... similar ages as yours....on a cute little 28 foot Shannon...with no refrigeration...they use an inflatable kayak for a dinghy when they all go to shore.

I think you could do it with one more!

[danielamartindm]

It's not only possible, it's one of the greatest gifts you can give to children, teaching them self-reliance, responsibility, delay of gratification, frugality, and many other life lessons. Your children will look back upon their time cruising as one of the best times of their lives.

[NormanMartin]

Hello OP:
I lived aboard in the early 1960s. I was 10 and my siblings were, 9, 6 and 3. Oh, yeah. the dog. We went from Cape Cod to the Bahamas, back to the Cape and then to Florida where we settled.

It was great.

[getyourbone]

I get a kick out of my daughter calling on the vhf to set up a play date!

She has learned sooo much more than she would ever learned on land.

Tides, currents, parts of the boat how operate an outboard, spotting coral heads, snorkeling, How check battery voltage...etc....

Can’t wait to see what she can do at 5 1/2?

[NormanMartin]

On charter this winter and anchored behind Green Cay reefs Nonsuch Bay, Antigua. Three boats with kids. They were having so much fun and it reminded me of my youth. A couple of Dyer sailing dinghies with little kids in command. Nothing better. The boats were a Hood 50, J40 and Herreshoff Tioga. I don't see as many cats cruising with kids.

I am a charter boat captain and was in Antigua for that reason.

Personally, I am not a catamaran guy except that they do have room for a sailing dinghy and other related water sport things in addition to the normal rib-on-davits. A good friend took off one winter and cruised a Gemini 105mc from Marion, MA to Bahamas and back with wife and pre-teen son. The Gemini sails pretty well which I like a lot. Normally, cats disappoint me in the sailing category.

We lived on a 48 Alden yawl built in 1921. She was great. The picture doesn't upload but I'll work on that for later.

[NormanMartin]

Here are a couple pictures of our Thetis, ex-Hermita. Times have changed regarding what's suitable for cruising. I had friends aboard a Calkins 50, a Hood 40, an English cutter of 40 ft, and a 50 ft motor yacht. There were many others I don't recall specifically.

BTW, all the kids I stayed in touch with went to good schools and were good students. My only problem after home schooling was schedules.