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12-10-2024, 00:35
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#31
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 51,146
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
Warfarin is an anticoagulant; not [technically] a “blood thinner’, because it does not reduce viscosity. It works, by reducing clotting proteins, in the blood.
As a vitamin K antagonist, Warfarin blocks the action of vitamin K, an important nutrient, for heart and bone health.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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12-10-2024, 01:03
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#32
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 12,545
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay
Warfarin is an anticoagulant; not [technically] a “blood thinner’, because it does not reduce viscosity. It works, by reducing clotting proteins, in the blood.
As a vitamin K antagonist, Warfarin blocks the action of vitamin K, an important nutrient, for heart and bone health.
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Yes but simple explanation easiest for multiple languages to understand when speaking to their physician about the medication and food interactions
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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12-10-2024, 07:10
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Haiti
Posts: 16
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
Buying bread from a man in Brussels
He was six-foot-four and full of muscle
I said, "Do you speak-a my language?"
He just smiled and gave me a Vegemite sandwich
And he said
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14-10-2024, 08:31
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chesapeake
Boat: Catalina 22 Sport
Posts: 1,269
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeinSdL
Warfarin is really a name of a drug? How appropriate! But if seaweed interferes with it, only better
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It's not what you might think. The drug was discovered by a researcher funded by the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation. The acronym is WARF. The common suffix for anticoagulants is -arin.
FWIW, the discovery was made by figuring out that cows that were bleeding to death were eating clover infected with a mold that produces the compound. Warfarin is a difficult medicine to use as the toxicity level is not that much higher than the beneficial level.
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14-10-2024, 08:45
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chesapeake
Boat: Catalina 22 Sport
Posts: 1,269
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
Quote:
Originally Posted by newhaul
Well yes however it is much better to get your nutrients from your food as much as possible.
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I am unaware of any evidence basis for this. Vitamin supplements are highly effective to provide vitamins that are missing from the diet. Yes, a broad-based diet, composed primarily of the least processed foods, is generally a great thing. If you have that kind of diet, no vitamin supplements are generally needed.
Two things to remember. First is that the main effect of vitamins is that they make your urine expensive. Most water soluble vitamins that are taken end up in the urine if they are not needed (and most people don't need most of them). But if you don't have a healthy, diverse diet with good amounts of fresh fruit, veg, and meat or meat substitutes, taking a multivitamin with normal doses (RDA) of vitamins will prevent the above listed vitamin deficiency disorders just as effectively as will the fresh food source. And buy them from the cheapest reputable source you can find. Think COSTCO or Target store brand, not the fancy label brands. Second is that vitamins can be toxic. Many people think that if a little is good, a lot is better. The mega vitamin fad was as inane as it was dangerous. For example, vitamin A can cause birth defects in pregnant women. Really bad ones. Again, just find an inexpensive but legit source of a standard dose multivitamin if you need one. Spending more money and having a cabinet full of various vitamins will get you nothing but expensive urine or worse.
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14-10-2024, 08:49
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chesapeake
Boat: Catalina 22 Sport
Posts: 1,269
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
Oh, and one more thing. Fresh citrus with an appropriate antibacterial compound such as C2H5OH is extremely effective. I tend to favor daiquiris but have lately switched to caipirinhas.
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14-10-2024, 08:51
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#37
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Circumnavigator
Boat: Roberts V495
Posts: 469
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
I suspect that mineral deficiency due to prolonged use of reverse osmosis water for tropical cruisers is at least as important as scurvy…..
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14-10-2024, 09:16
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 87
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
I understand the most appropriate preventative for scurvy and stress-related lurgies is a daily double Gin and Tonic, with ice and a healthy slice of bitter lemon.
Optimally taken just as the sun goes down...
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14-10-2024, 09:36
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Texas and Taiwan
Posts: 218
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
I've been on a intermiten fasting carnivore diet for two years. No scurvy, high blood pressure or any other problems, but still getting uglier and older. No cure for that.
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14-10-2024, 10:02
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,031
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay
Warfarin is an anticoagulant; not [technically] a “blood thinner’, because it does not reduce viscosity. It works, by reducing clotting proteins, in the blood.
As a vitamin K antagonist, Warfarin blocks the action of vitamin K, an important nutrient, for heart and bone health.
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Vitamin K works with vitamin D to regulate calcium in the blood and seems to help bone density.
Most/Many people are low in vitamin D. I have to take 5 times the RDA to get the vitamin D in my blood to about 70. One should be between 30 and 100. I am thinking about increasing my vitamin D intake to get to the upper range. Not sure the upper range is really what SHOULD be the upper limit....
Vitamin D is needed for bone health but also mental health a fighting off respiratory infections.
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14-10-2024, 10:45
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#41
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 12,545
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nofacey
I suspect that mineral deficiency due to prolonged use of reverse osmosis water for tropical cruisers is at least as important as scurvy…..
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With a balanced diet no that is not an issue according the the WHO. they actually did a study on it.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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14-10-2024, 16:40
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Oyster 66
Posts: 1,366
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nofacey
I suspect that mineral deficiency due to prolonged use of reverse osmosis water for tropical cruisers is at least as important as scurvy…..
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It’s not so. According to this NIH study the contribution of drinking water to mineral nutrition is “small”:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK216589/
In fact a lot of us are deficient in many minerals and vitamins, most of us in the case of vitamin D (and nearly all of us have insufficient):
"The percentage of individuals aged ≥2 y with total usual nutrient intake, including that from foods and dietary supplements, falling below the EAR was considerable for vitamin D (70%), vitamin E (60%), calcium (38%), vitamin A (34%), vitamin C (25%), and magnesium (45%)."
Fulgoni Ill, Victor L., et al. "Foods, fortificants, and supplements: where do Americans get their nutrients?." The Journal of Nutrition 141.10 (2011): 1847-1854.
I supplement with magnesium and potassium and vitamin C. I also make sure I get plenty of sun exposure for vitamin D (and infra red and nitric oxide benefits).
The guidelines are set to be sure to avoid illness, like scurvy or rickets, not for optimum health, so the guideline amounts should be seen as something approximating a minimum.
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14-10-2024, 17:02
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Sabre 34-1 (sold) and Saga 43
Posts: 2,609
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
Fortunately, I absolutely LOVE cabbage in all its flavors. The Admiral stocks cases of chopped red cabbage and sour kraut. Scurvy is the least of my concerns....
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14-10-2024, 20:15
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Boat: Swarbrick S-80
Posts: 989
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nofacey
I suspect that mineral deficiency due to prolonged use of reverse osmosis water for tropical cruisers is at least as important as scurvy…..
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Any concerns can easily be offset by frequent consumption of other water-containing liquids such as beer, wine and spirits!
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15-10-2024, 03:40
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#45
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 51,146
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Re: Scurvy & the Cruiser [Vitamin C]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nofacey
I suspect that mineral deficiency due to prolonged use of reverse osmosis water for tropical cruisers is at least as important as scurvy…..
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This may be, somewhat, controversial, in the scientific/health community. In no particular order, of preference:
“Reverse Osmosis Water: Myths & Facts” ~ by Gary Battenberg and Peter Cartwright
➥ https://wcponline.com/2019/07/15/rev...and-the-facts/
“Guidelines For Drinking-water Quality” ~ by World Health Organization
➥ https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789241549950
“Consumption of Low TDS Water” ~ by the Water Quality Association Science Advisory Committee
➥ https://wqa.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2015_TDS.pdf
“The Role of Low Mineral Water Consumption in Reducing the Mineral Density of Bones and Teeth: A Narrative Review” ~ by Monitoring Editors: Alexander Muacevic and John R Adler et al
➥ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10732328/
Quote:
Originally Posted by poiu
It’s not so. According to this NIH study the contribution of drinking water to mineral nutrition is “small”:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK216589/
In fact a lot of us are deficient in many minerals and vitamins, most of us in the case of vitamin D (and nearly all of us have insufficient):
"The percentage of individuals aged ≥2 y with total usual nutrient intake, including that from foods and dietary supplements, falling below the EAR was considerable for vitamin D (70%), vitamin E (60%), calcium (38%), vitamin A (34%), vitamin C (25%), and magnesium (45%)."
Fulgoni Ill, Victor L., et al. "Foods, fortificants, and supplements: where do Americans get their nutrients?." The Journal of Nutrition 141.10 (2011): 1847-1854.
I supplement with magnesium and potassium and vitamin C. I also make sure I get plenty of sun exposure for vitamin D (and infra red and nitric oxide benefits).
The guidelines are set to be sure to avoid illness, like scurvy or rickets, not for optimum health, so the guideline amounts should be seen as something approximating a minimum.
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__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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