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Old 06-12-2021, 14:53   #16
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Re: Retort bag canning (pressure)

WOW just WOW. This is a forum for sailors. Suggesting retort pouch technology is feasible on board is ludicrous.
The original poster asked for professionally qualified responses and was give exactly that yet the thread continues.
When are the moderators going to step in and stop this dangerous nonsense.
Retort pouch technology requires understanding food science, microbiology and packaging. We knew all the major innovators in retort pouch. The Army Natick Labs, SwissVac, Ocean Spray Cranberries, Cornell University and the Food Science Department at MIT.
Aseptic packaging and retort pouch technology took years to develop and millions of dollars in funds were spent. The research effort was immense because the risk of illness and death was ever present.
Any suggestion this is is something you can read a few books on or learn at home is comical. You not only need the substantial and broad education but the time and funds necessary to learn these unique technologies ... both the practical and scientific basis. Failures can kill you. This is why facilities which package foods in retort pouch or aseptic drink box or any aseptic packaging...these corporations have packaging engineers, microbiologist and food scientists on staff who continually monitor everything. More importantly...they are FDA inspected.
We find this thread outright dangerous in its oversimplification.
Do not fool with retort pouches, vacuum packaging or anything similar to it.
It can make you extremely sick or kill you.
Captain Mark and crew.
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Old 06-12-2021, 15:09   #17
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Re: Retort bag canning (pressure)

Originally Posted by Manateeman View Post
When are the moderators going to step in and stop this dangerous nonsense.
The moderator post for canning expertise is currently vacant

The discussion has highlighted several different views, all cordial.

The reader now has the evidence they need to take a decision on who to believe and what approach to take. As adults you are responsible for your actions and the choices you make.

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Old 07-12-2021, 06:50   #18
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Re: Retort bag canning (pressure)

Originally Posted by Manateeman View Post
When are the moderators going to step in and stop this dangerous nonsense.
I, for one, appreciate the info from Owly. I also appreciate people who (rationally) post the potential problems and dangers with retort pouches.
Owly sounds like he is reasonably cautious, and his experiments only endanger himself. It's not like he is trying to kill his friends, family, and neighbors by spouting anti-xxx rhetoric. Sure, maybe the problems of home canning with retort pouches has not been worked out as well as with glass, but the only way they will be solved is by people like Owly trying to figure things out.
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Old 07-12-2021, 07:35   #19
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Re: Retort bag canning (pressure)

Why not use Mason jars? With a little research and practice you get a reusable option that is completely safe. Much cheaper as well.

We do use a vacuum chamber machine too for dry storage items as well as items that go in the freezer. A chamber vacuum machine allows powdery as well as liquid items to be vacuum packed which isn’t possible with the “Food Saver” class machines.

Last trip we took more than 500 food filled jars with us, bringing back about 75 food filled and 425 empty washed jars which are now ready for next time
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Old 07-01-2022, 03:38   #20
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Re: Retort bag canning (pressure)

I have done a fair bit of Canning(Metal) and Retort Pouches in the Past and I concur that C. botulinum is a real worry when processing high acid foods and Meats. I have done lots and lots of studing and searching for info over the years and have put together a pretty good library of info that's available on the Internet and through a few Universities. I'll upload a zip file with all the info I have and a few Excel worksheets by U.of Mass to calculate the "F Values" for canning. This stuff is by no means the same as your handy "Ball Canning Guide" this info takes some studing and comprehension of food spoilage.

I have an All-American Presssure Canner for all of my Canning work. A normal Pressure Cooker will NOT have enough pressure to bring the Water Temps to the Critical 121°C that is needed to destroy C. botulinum. I also use a Temp. Probe/Logger like the one in the PDF in every load I do. I sacrifice 1 Can (the coolest one in the middle of the Canner) to take the readings. I open this Can and read the data from the Logger and put it into the Excel spread sheets to check that it's within the proper limits.

Canning Meats and High Acid foods is more difficult and takes more specialized equipment (Pressure Canner, Can Sealer and Temp. Logger) but it can be safely done at home.
I can't seem to find a way to upload this file to this Post as an attachment so I made a link on Google Files. I hope it will work. If it doesn't then PM me and I'll send you an email.
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