Propane Tank Recertification

[jaybird1111]

Originally Posted by rwidman

You can exchange empty one for full ones at home centers, gas stations, grocery stores and convenience stores.

I wish I could.

I have a propane locker box, and the only box which fit the space has a little-bitty 2-lb canister. So no, I can't just exchange, and I have found that even in the US, it can be difficult when vehicle-less to get a tank fill, as was mentioned above.

Ace Hardware has been my best source for refills in various places in the US.

sorry for continuing the hijack - back to the regularly scheduled thread:

I don't see why dive shops, which certify dive tanks, can't re-cert a propane tank. You'd just need to be sure the tank is empty, I should think

[a64pilot]

FWIW , I've never, ever seen a dive shop that does Hydro's, they all send them out to be done.
Two ways a propane cylinder can be re-inspected, one is Hydro which carries a longer re-inspect date, the other is visual. I feel pretty sure most are done visually.

I looked this up awhile ago as I have one that is way old and over due inspection, I eventually gave up and just have it filled here locally where they say they are allowed to visually inspect and re-fill a tank that is over due. But that ain't gonna work when we cast off, I suspect I will end up buying another new tank, I think I paid about $200 for the last one?

[savoir]

Get new valves fitted. My tanks are 22 years old and work like new. I had valves fitted last year.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

But that ain't gonna work when we cast off, I suspect I will end up buying another new tank, I think I paid about $200 for the last one?

Well if that's what you want to do. I started this thread because I didn't accept that I needed to buy a new tank. In the end I got my tank recertified and filled for $22.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Well if that's what you want to do. I started this thread because I didn't accept that I needed to buy a new tank. In the end I got my tank recertified and filled for $22.

It's not what I want to do, I just gave up. There is no Suburban Propane near me, I looked and I can find no one around here that knows anything about re-cert, perhaps because they don't care. Only time I ever had anyone look was in Panama City, where I believe they look for a reason not to fill, saves work for them.
Maybe between now and the time I go I will find a away to get it recertified

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

There is no Suburban Propane near me, I looked and I can find no one around here that knows anything about re-cert, perhaps because they don't care.

You need to look for a major propane supplier and not expect the refill stations to know anything about it (none that I asked knew it could even be done). I found that Suburban does it by asking a RV place. I also found a U-Haul place that did it.

[biker6977]

[QUOTE=a64pilot;1807044]FWIW , I've never, ever seen a dive shop that does Hydro's, they all send them out to be done.
Two ways a propane cylinder can be re-inspected, one is Hydro which carries a longer re-inspect date, the other is visual. I feel pretty sure most are done visually.QUOTE]
VIP is done is pure visual, VIP plus measures the pits in tanks and gives a more accurate assessment of safety.
Some stores do hydro- the one in Mobile does- they have a tank on display that failed (blew up during testing) Pre '88 tanks can not be refilled for scuba- if someone says they'll fill them go to another shop.
If you're in the area of a propane dealer they should be able to test them or at least point you to someone that can. Also welding suppliers that deal in gas cylinders can tell you where.
Also- be leary of purchasing tanks of ebay, craigslist etc.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

FWIW , I've never, ever seen a dive shop that does Hydro's, they all send them out to be done.

Same here, but every dive shop I've ever dealt with will accept your tanks, send them out for hydro and you get to pay a surcharge for the privilege. So they all do know where to get it done. If you have no other options call a dive shop, tell them it's not for a dive tank and see if they will tell you where they send them.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Two ways a propane cylinder can be re-inspected, one is Hydro which carries a longer re-inspect date, the other is visual. I feel pretty sure most are done visually.

According to the local propane dealer, propane tanks are like SCUBA. Visual is OK for a while but after some specified time the tanks will have to be hydro'd. Since the shop was selling me a hydro on my old Al propane tanks the were not exactly a neutral, third party in the transaction so I would take that with a grain of salt.

[a64pilot]

FWIW the "visual" or VIP as it's called that Scuba shops do is an industry standard, it has no basis in Federal Law, many think it's mainly to generate an income for the shop.
After I had an idiot put silicone grease on my O2 clean tank valves, I order the silly stickers off of Ebay and I do my own VIP.
The Hydro though is mandated by Federal Law, and first step of the Hydro is a visual inspection. Of course almost all Scuba shops want to sell you a VIP on a tank that just came back from Hydro, that is a sure sign they are either dishonest, or don't know what they are doing.
My son works at a Cave Dive shop in Mariana Fl., I ought to get him to see if they can get the propane tank done

[savoir]

Your insurance company might take a dim view of that.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

FWIW the "visual" or VIP as it's called that Scuba shops do is an industry standard, it has no basis in Federal Law, many think it's mainly to generate an income for the shop.

Many also think the same for the special Nitrox stickers as well. One friend commented that if O2 under pressure was that sensitive then welding shops would be blowing up every few days.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by biker6977

[Pre '88 tanks can not be refilled for scuba- if someone says they'll fill them go to another shop.

I have discussed this with several SCUBA shops and directly with the local hydro tester and have gotten a different answer from everyone I asked. Local hydro shop says pre 1994 and refused to test my early nineties tanks.

One shop in New England said the only ban was the ban Al alloy tanks that were made a couple of years and recerted some pre 1990 tanks for a friend.

So can you point me to a DOT regulation or ruling on this 1988 limit that I can show to the local hydro shop and get my 91-84 tanks recertified?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Many also think the same for the special Nitrox stickers as well. One friend commented that if O2 under pressure was that sensitive then welding shops would be blowing up every few days.

O2 under pressure is extremely volatile, all it takes is a tiny bit of anything that will burn, and Boom.

News media often calls dive tanks Oxygen tanks, but in this case it was an aluminum 40 filled with 100% O2, it's what almost all cave divers use to deco on, anyway it's believed that there was a tiny amount of contamination on the vale seat and or maybe the threads, you get a tiny source of ignition and I guess O2 under high pressure will burn / explode almost anything. Of course you know a cutting torch works by literally burning steel, get it hot and hit it with pure O2 and steel burns vigorously.

Oxygen tank explosion kills one, injures three | Gainesville.com

Deal with Nitrox is small shops may fill by using partial pressure method, that is x amount of pure O2 topped off with air = x % Nitrox, if you use partial pressure method your tanks have to be O2 clean. Most shops have a blend stick where O2 and air is mixed together to get the right mix of Nitrox, usually 32% is banked. All mine are O2 clean as I dive Tri-mix occasionally and most shops don't bank tri-mix and custom mixes are the norm.
O2 cleaning is a PIA, valves have to be disassembled and cleaned in a ultrasound and tanks tumbled with usually simple green.

As far as I know the only tanks that arew condemned is one manufacturer used 6351-T6 years ago and that is a no no.
I still see occasionally steel 72's used for sidemount diving, and they go back to the Sea Hunt days.

Link to NPRM for the tanks

https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...351-t6-used-in

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

O2 under pressure is extremely volatile, all it takes is a tiny bit of anything that will burn, and Boom.

Tiny bit of fuel AND a source of ignition. Potentially enough heat can be generated by adiabatic compression when fast filling a tank but that is easily mitigated by slow fill rate and gradual on/off of the valves. Otherwise a spark from metal to metal contact or static could do it.

And there have been a couple of SCUBA tank explosions over the years that were probably due to O2, like the one at Bill Rennaker's shop and one in CA a couple of years ago if I recall.

Still, with just a modicum of care O2 is not deadly. Again, how many welding shops do you hear about blowing up? Just about none. And I guarantee you there is more dirt, grease and potential fuel sources and slack safety procedures around welders than all the dive shops in FL put together.

Not advocating playing fast and loose with the safety procedures, just think the dive industry has seriously overblown the risk factors and turned in into another source of income.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

News media often calls dive tanks Oxygen tanks,

Yes, which always annoys me but what do you expect from the news people.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

O2 cleaning is a PIA, valves have to be disassembled and cleaned in a ultrasound and tanks tumbled with usually simple green.

I a good bit of cave diving with people that were fanatic to the point of OCD on safety and do not believe any of them did an ultrasonic valve cleaning or tumbled a tank unless it was an old steel 72 that had a bit of rust. Cleaning with simple green or similar was the standard.

[biker6977]

Scuba equipment is not O2 clean. To be o2 clean there must be no grease, dirt, fiber etc. all truly O2 clean tanks or components are sealed. Once that seal is broken it is no longer O2 clean. We build O2 tanks for hospital and hydrogen tanks as well. Cleanliness is extremely important.