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Old 10-04-2017, 08:52   #106
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

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I recently installed an Origo with the oven and used it for a week straight. There is a very, very slight smell when lit. The oven easily gets up to 400 degrees and holds temp. We made biscuits in the oven and they came out great. The stove top boils water quickly. So far very happy with the unit.
I'm also a fan of the Origo stoves...been using them for years. But I've never noticed any odor at all...none. Are you sure you aren't using some fancy expensive stove fuel ? I use paint store methyl hydrate, and it burns super clean and odorless.

As for price of methyl hydrate....you pay mostly for the container. 4 litres here costs about the same as a 1 litre container. It pays to shop around and buy in bulk. I've found the origo uses very little fuel....according to spec about 7 hours on high from a full cannister...which I would guess to be about 300ml.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:13   #107
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

I use 100% grain alcohol. No carbon monoxide production from the denaturing agent and no water vapor. The added benefit, although more expensive, is I can also put it in my beverages when it's cold.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:05   #108
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

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I use 100% grain alcohol. No carbon monoxide production from the denaturing agent and no water vapor. The added benefit, although more expensive, is I can also put it in my beverages when it's cold.
And you acquire this product where and from whom in what quantities, and store it in what and where? Serious questions include, what is the cost, including taxes?
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:10   #109
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

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And you acquire this product where and from whom in what quantities, and store it in what and where? Serious questions include, what is the cost, including taxes?

In the US, we have Everclear, which is sold for drinking purposes and is about 90% ethanol. It is difficult to distill alcohol to 100% because it is so hydrohilic. Ship chandlers in Europe and Asia once, and maybe still do, sold ethanol in 5gal jugs and this was understandably popular with low paid 3rd world crews as it contained the highest possible buzz for the buck. I am sure this is only 90% though. And then in Belize, there is "Extra Strong Rum" which is 190 proof cane alcohol, or 95%. This stuff came into being during the early days of the timber industry, when all supplies had to be dragged up river and stream as there were no roads. A case of extra strong could be more easily transported than 3 cases of regular rum, then mixed as required with two parts river water and bobs yer uncle. Pressure stoves and lanterns are still to be seen off in the bush and along the riverbanks, and this panther sweat is often bought with the excuse that it is only for priming the stove or lantern. When I lived on the farm I often used the euphemism "light the lamp" to signify to the wife that I was ready for a bush cocktail consisting of Traveler's Extra Strong and juice of whatever fruit was at hand, or green coconut water. Or even Coke if we were in an extravagant way.
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:29   #110
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

Growly is correct. It's called Everclear here in the states. I do believe however, it is over 190 proof and therefore has to be at least 95% ethanol. The bottom line, there is almost no water vapor to coat the interior of the sailboat when using it for heating. Rum is less than 80 percent ethanol and therefore there will be some water vapor, which will cause condensation, and doesn't burn as hot as the near pure ethanol. All very good points. I have poured rum into my heat pal and it works just fine. I prefer to drink rum more than the grain alcohol. The grain doesn't have much taste.
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:58   #111
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

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Growly is correct. It's called Everclear here in the states. I do believe however, it is over 190 proof and therefore has to be at least 95% ethanol. The bottom line, there is almost no water vapor to coat the interior of the sailboat when using it for heating. Rum is less than 80 percent ethanol and therefore there will be some water vapor, which will cause condensation, and doesn't burn as hot as the near pure ethanol. All very good points. I have poured rum into my heat pal and it works just fine. I prefer to drink rum more than the grain alcohol. The grain doesn't have much taste.
Ah I stand corrected. You are right, it is 190 proof, ergo 95% alcohol. I just cheated a bit and read the label.
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Old 10-04-2017, 13:11   #112
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

Anytime we're talking about having fun sailing, it's all good! I learned about water vapor the hard way. 1 winter here in the Chesapeake, we went sailing and it was 32 degrees on the inside. I took all of the engine room boards off so that the radiant heat from the engine at least begin to warn the cabin. And then I did the unthinkable: I turned on the oven for heat. The amount of water vapor wad incredible. The water was dripping off the ceiling and that's when I learned anything that is not near pure alcohol will condense on your face. I am also deadly afraid of anything that produces carbon monoxide. So even the denatured alcohol fuels for the alcohol stoves will produce carbon monoxide I'll be at in Trivial amount. That said, I am a fraidy cat.
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Old 10-04-2017, 13:12   #113
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

Albeit, not I'll be at. Sorry.... the super helpful spell checker got me.
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Old 10-04-2017, 15:01   #114
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

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In the US, we have Everclear, which is sold for drinking purposes and is about 90% ethanol. It is difficult to distill alcohol to 100% because it is so hydrohilic. Ship chandlers in Europe and Asia once, and maybe still do, sold ethanol in 5gal jugs and this was understandably popular with low paid 3rd world crews as it contained the highest possible buzz for the buck. I am sure this is only 90% though. And then in Belize, there is "Extra Strong Rum" which is 190 proof cane alcohol, or 95%. This stuff came into being during the early days of the timber industry, when all supplies had to be dragged up river and stream as there were no roads. A case of extra strong could be more easily transported than 3 cases of regular rum, then mixed as required with two parts river water and bobs yer uncle. Pressure stoves and lanterns are still to be seen off in the bush and along the riverbanks, and this panther sweat is often bought with the excuse that it is only for priming the stove or lantern. When I lived on the farm I often used the euphemism "light the lamp" to signify to the wife that I was ready for a bush cocktail consisting of Traveler's Extra Strong and juice of whatever fruit was at hand, or green coconut water. Or even Coke if we were in an extravagant way.
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Originally Posted by bensolomon View Post
Growly is correct. It's called Everclear here in the states. I do believe however, it is over 190 proof and therefore has to be at least 95% ethanol. The bottom line, there is almost no water vapor to coat the interior of the sailboat when using it for heating. Rum is less than 80 percent ethanol and therefore there will be some water vapor, which will cause condensation, and doesn't burn as hot as the near pure ethanol. All very good points. I have poured rum into my heat pal and it works just fine. I prefer to drink rum more than the grain alcohol. The grain doesn't have much taste.
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Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
Ah I stand corrected. You are right, it is 190 proof, ergo 95% alcohol. I just cheated a bit and read the label.
Now we are getting somewhere. Alcohol is very hydroscopic, almost impossible to buy or to store. Unfortunately, there is still a BIG problem with Everclear, as well known to fraternities, and others who might wish to use it for consumption. It is heavily taxed, and not really a good buy when the denatured stuff (unfit for consumption -in fact potentially fatal or a cause of permanent injury) in high percentage is so readily available at much lower prices. I supposed if have the right connections you can buy it in drinkable form as corn liquor from a bootlegger without involving the revenue people from ATF. I doubt the proof or percentage of alcohol will be as high. So, what do you really use and use it for?
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Old 10-04-2017, 19:00   #115
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

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Now we are getting somewhere. Alcohol is very hydroscopic, almost impossible to buy or to store. Unfortunately, there is still a BIG problem with Everclear, as well known to fraternities, and others who might wish to use it for consumption. It is heavily taxed, and not really a good buy when the denatured stuff (unfit for consumption -in fact potentially fatal or a cause of permanent injury) in high percentage is so readily available at much lower prices. I supposed if have the right connections you can buy it in drinkable form as corn liquor from a bootlegger without involving the revenue people from ATF. I doubt the proof or percentage of alcohol will be as high. So, what do you really use and use it for?
Moonshine is never sold at over about 130 proof. It is more common to be near an even 100 proof give or take 10. Trying to distill 190 proof using primitive stills would be time and labor intensive, wasteful, and practically impossible. Don't ask me how I know this. I plead the fifth. Uh, no pun intended. Moonshine is also not cheap, in spite of it not being taxed. It will actually cost more than the cheapest legal booze, and is mostly sold in dry counties or on Sunday in places where you can't buy a legal bottle on a Sunday. Thank goodness we don't practice such barbarism in New Orleans.

What do I use everclear for? I already said. To light the lamp. Or stove.

Better to try to obtain untaxed duty free alcohol for export, if you are going to sea. Your local ship (not yacht) chandler will be able to tell you what is what, regarding relevant laws. Moonshine isnt what you want even if you can find it where you are at. Methylated spirits, from paint or hardware store, is probably the cheapest route. High octane ethyl alcohol such as Everclear is simply a matter of convenience and multipurposing.
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Old 10-04-2017, 20:43   #116
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

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An explosion on one boat can take out an entire marina.
Especially, since most boats are unoccupied most of the time.
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Old 10-04-2017, 20:49   #117
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

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Moonshine is never sold at over about 130 proof. It is more common to be near an even 100 proof give or take 10. Trying to distill 190 proof using primitive stills would be time and labor intensive, wasteful, and practically impossible...
Looks like you need Naval Gin. I did a distillery tour recently, where we they described the derivation of the name. Naval Gin was formulated for the British Navy so that if it were accidentally spilled on gunpowder the powder would still ignite. Supposedly, when the ship received a supply of gin it was tested by actually pouring it over a small pile of gunpowder, and if it didn't burn, the supply officer knew that they were being cheated.

Of course, you could always go for the ancient trick of using Olive Oil. Throughout the middle east Olive Oil was universally used for lamps, stoves and cooking. Since it is easily available all around the world, it may be an option, at least in a pinch.
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Old 10-04-2017, 21:50   #118
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

To the OP:

I recommend getting an MSR Whisperlite Internationale stove, they burn naptha, gasoline, diesel, kerosine and probably a few other fuels I've forgotten. Made for travelers/ backpackers. I have one and have mostly used it with gasoline and naptha, they are designed to work! Great if you want to venture out and you can use it in a power outage at home or for actual backpacking. You would need a piece of plywood for underneath it, though as the burner is all metal but you could use that wood as part of a home made gimbal setup, probably easily.

Oh and they come with lots of different sizes of bottles too if space is an issue or you don't want to refill the bottle much; it's a flexible system
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Old 11-04-2017, 06:08   #119
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

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Looks like you need Naval Gin. I did a distillery tour recently, where we they described the derivation of the name. Naval Gin was formulated for the British Navy so that if it were accidentally spilled on gunpowder the powder would still ignite. Supposedly, when the ship received a supply of gin it was tested by actually pouring it over a small pile of gunpowder, and if it didn't burn, the supply officer knew that they were being cheated.

Of course, you could always go for the ancient trick of using Olive Oil. Throughout the middle east Olive Oil was universally used for lamps, stoves and cooking. Since it is easily available all around the world, it may be an option, at least in a pinch.
The gunpowder test (black powder, not modern smokeless powder) tells you if the alcohol percentage is above 57% or not, and was accepted as evidence of 100 proof, even though strictly speaking 100 proof = 50% alcohol. Other tests include specific gravity with hydrometer, and observing the bead when the liquor is shaken. Bubbles, or "the bead" are held on top of the liquid by surface tension in weak spirits, and stand deeper in the liquid with stronger. When the bead is about half above, half below the surface, this is considered 100 proof, and a hydrometer test will back this up with surprising agreement. Also, higher proof makes bigger bubbles that don't last as long, only a couple of seconds. Lower proof makes smaller bubbles that last quite a while. You can shake a bottle of vodka and a bottle of everclear and demonstrate this for yourself. Then congratulate yourself with a drink.

I have burnt olive oil in wick lamps many times and it works just fine. I suspect it would also work in a pressure stove with a kerosene nipple but it would probably clog the jet a bit faster than common petroleum distillate fuels, I am guessing. Still, it would be cool to try it if you have plenty of spare nipples.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that specific gravity is very temperature dependent. At higher temperatures a hydrometer will register a lower specific gravity because the liquor is less dense at higher temperatures. This is easily compensated by formula or table.
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Old 11-04-2017, 06:20   #120
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Re: Propane, alcohol or kerosene stoves?

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To the OP:

I recommend getting an MSR Whisperlite Internationale stove, they burn naptha, gasoline, diesel, kerosine and probably a few other fuels I've forgotten. Made for travelers/ backpackers. I have one and have mostly used it with gasoline and naptha, they are designed to work! Great if you want to venture out and you can use it in a power outage at home or for actual backpacking. You would need a piece of plywood for underneath it, though as the burner is all metal but you could use that wood as part of a home made gimbal setup, probably easily.

Oh and they come with lots of different sizes of bottles too if space is an issue or you don't want to refill the bottle much; it's a flexible system
That would be a good stove for a small boat. It would be easy to adapt a Sea Swing for it or build a gimbal mount for it. But the MSR Dragonfly has a more adjustable flame. It is actually pretty awesome. If you have a whisperlite and you see a dragonfly in use, you will want a dragonfly and there will soon be yet another whisperlite on ebay. The only minus is that the dragonfly's pump is not compatible with the other MSR stoves, so I am told.
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