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Old 24-11-2016, 08:07   #166
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Originally Posted by Sandero View Post
Buy a local tank and fitting... problem solved...
Sometimes that will work.

But some places it will not.

Between the UK and Finland, there are 10 countries and 7 (!) different standards of gas bottles. (Where the hell is the EU when you actually need it, eh? ).

If you have two of your own standard bottles in your gas locker, where do you put them when you buy local ones? The bottles are expensive, and while we weren't talking about cost before, here we might -- if the cost of a new bottle, regulator, and fittings is added to the cost of every propane refill, this adds up fast!

For many of us, conserving gas supplies can be hard to avoid.

We have been dealing with this by having two Calor (UK standard) 4.5kg butane bottles, plus one Finnish/Estonian one with its own regulator, fittings, hoses, etc. The two Calor bottles will usually get us to Finland, then we switch to the Finnish/Estonian one, which will usually get us back to the UK. But not always, and then you end up wasting a ton of good cruising time trying to figure out how to deal with it.

Gas is a PITA.
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Old 24-11-2016, 08:14   #167
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Sometimes that will work.

But some places it will not.

Between the UK and Finland, there are 10 countries and 7 (!) different standards of gas bottles. (Where the hell is the EU when you actually need it, eh? ).

If you have two of your own standard bottles in your gas locker, where do you put them when you buy local ones? The bottles are expensive, and while we weren't talking about cost before, here we might -- if the cost of a new bottle, regulator, and fittings is added to the cost of every propane refill, this adds up fast!

For many of us, conserving gas supplies can be hard to avoid.

We have been dealing with this by having two Calor (UK standard) 4.5kg butane bottles, plus one Finnish/Estonian one with its own regulator, fittings, hoses, etc. The two Calor bottles will usually get us to Finland, then we switch to the Finnish/Estonian one, which will usually get us back to the UK. But not always, and then you end up wasting a ton of good cruising time trying to figure out how to deal with it.

Gas is a PITA.
I suppose if every hundred miles you sail you encounter a different gas fitting standard... you have a real problem... especially if you are going slow and need frequent gas refills. But this problem is almost hard to comprehend.

Don't these countries sell inexpensive tanks for BBQs and such?
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Old 24-11-2016, 08:19   #168
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Thanks for the hint! After my last post I actually did some research already and will be better prepared next summer with adapters etc.
I've done six full transits of the Baltic Sea and North Sea during the last three years, and can help you with any advice you might need about gas (or anything else).

The Swedish gas cylinders are, maddeningly, almost identical to the Finnish ones, but they DO NOT FIT. You need the regulator and all the bits, besides the bottle itself. The cylinders alone cost roughly 700SEK each, so this is not a cheap operation.

Good luck.
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Old 24-11-2016, 08:22   #169
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Originally Posted by Sandero View Post
I suppose if every hundred miles you sail you encounter a different gas fitting standard... you have a real problem... especially if you are going slow and need frequent gas refills. But this problem is almost hard to comprehend.

Don't these countries sell inexpensive tanks for BBQs and such?
Yes, that's exactly the problem. And if you have someone on board who is baking frequently, then this problem is greatly compounded.

I don't know about BBQ tanks, but I believe that they are the same as boat tanks, and they are not cheap. With the regulators and everything you need to make them work, I guess you're pushing $200. PLUS the gas. Pretty expensive load of gas.

You usually need the regulator too, besides just the fittings, because most of the bottles in this region take the regulators pressed directly onto the bottle.
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Old 24-11-2016, 09:24   #170
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

And now for something completely different :


Every morning except for the two hottest months I light the wood burning stove and put the kettle on. Depending on how much wood I load and how absently I am it takes about ¾ hour before the coffee is ready. One big pot for the whole day. Those ¾ hour I need to fully waken up, wash, shave etc.
High summer is to hot for the wood burning stove so we use gas.
We also have a diesel Refleks heater with cooking plate but diesel is expensive and wood is free where we cruise.
Thirty years liveaboard on a small wooden boat. Solar and wind for electricity. Wind for sailing.
Our way is not efficient. Not fast. Just the way I like it.
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Old 24-11-2016, 10:47   #171
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Originally Posted by OldBawley View Post
And now for something completely different :


Every morning except for the two hottest months I light the wood burning stove and put the kettle on. Depending on how much wood I load and how absently I am it takes about ¾ hour before the coffee is ready. One big pot for the whole day. Those ¾ hour I need to fully waken up, wash, shave etc.
High summer is to hot for the wood burning stove so we use gas.
We also have a diesel Refleks heater with cooking plate but diesel is expensive and wood is free where we cruise.
Thirty years liveaboard on a small wooden boat. Solar and wind for electricity. Wind for sailing.
Our way is not efficient. Not fast. Just the way I like it.
Seems to me to be the most efficient way to do it you are burning free wood to heat your home/boat and as a bonus you are also brewing your coffee.efficiency isn't always about cost or even speed .
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Old 24-11-2016, 12:40   #172
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Originally Posted by Sandero View Post
I suppose if every hundred miles you sail you encounter a different gas fitting standard... you have a real problem... especially if you are going slow and need frequent gas refills. But this problem is almost hard to comprehend.

Don't these countries sell inexpensive tanks for BBQs and such?
It's hard to comprehend because you've never experienced it and you don't appreciate what is involved.

You have to buy a new bottle (which of course is a different shape and does not fit into your propane locker), and then at the next country you have to buy ANOTHER bottle and run around the marina hawking your bottle that you no longer need and don't have room for. And some places you have to go to the big gas storage facility which could be 20 miles away. It's NOT like doing your tank exchange at Home Depot, trust me. And no, in most places the bottles are not inexpensive.
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Old 24-11-2016, 13:29   #173
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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(Where the hell is the EU when you actually need it, eh? ).
Exactly my thought.

We have an analogous issue: our boat came with CNG which worked for us for the past 17 1/2 years, since there was a place to swap bottles very convenient to our berth.

Then we moved the boat to Vancouver Island. NO, none, nada, zip, zilch CNG is here.

We bought a single burner butane cooker which we placed on top of the old stove. I bought two refilled CNG tanks before I left, but they are there for backup only. Didn't have to touch them on the sail up or since.

I still haven't figured out what I'm going to do with the CNG. I could switch to propane, but that would entail building a box or a deck mount support and changing the burners on the stove.

So far (2 months in with 3 mini-cruises) I'm still using the butane and have found the canisters easy to source here.

Now a one-pot shop!
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Old 24-11-2016, 15:04   #174
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
If you read the thread, you'll see.

You have x amount of battery power, and y amount of propane.

Can I boil water with electricity without running my batteries down? Someone said you're trashing your batteries this way -- let's drill into that.

Doesn't it deplete my propane supplies? Well, maybe, because a lot of heat bypasses the kettle, when you boil water on the stove.

And a million other questions like that.

If it's not interesting for you or anyone else -- fine, of course, everyone chooses what's interesting or not. There are about 5000 other threads on here to choose from.

It's a VERY interesting question for me, because my boat runs on tea, with gangs of British and Russian people on board frequently, and at this cold latitude. Boiling a liter or two of water once every hour, day and night, 24/7 on passage, gets to be something of a challenge even on a big boat like mine. Many others have similar situations.
I'm sorry - did I say something wrong? It was a serious question. There doesn't seem to be any agreement as to what efficiency vector was being discussed. Is it really necessary to dig through 10 pages of thread to figure out what the thread is about?

A given volume of water boils with the same input BTU regardless of the energy source. So, the efficiency question is ridiculous without an additional given vector. Diesel would be the most energy dense material available on a boat. Therefore it is the most efficient from a material standpoint. However, it varies in price. How much a person makes allows them to purchase energy rather than generate it them selves, the availability of any given material changes depending on time of year and location, and so forth.

Therefore - the most efficient way to boil water depends on time available, location, and your finances.
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Old 24-11-2016, 16:37   #175
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Ron remember some of us are on a fixed income . I do a bit of repair work but its going into the dead season here .
Actual cost for me is 0 dollars for hot water with my electric pot on inverter. Its worth an hour and a halfs solar to recoupe that power used for me.ymmv
Another thing to consider Ron (on High Cotton).
Apart from jobs & & income levels.....( the Aus VA are fantastic) I've been on the hook 24x7 for 7 years. No car, taxis and busses only. Propane filling/ exchange stations can be mighty hard to find for me.
Consider my 2 shreaded rotator cuffs, my ditto right anterior cruciate ligament, four crushed lumbar discs, & at 70 years I'm less capable than a 50 year old.
Busses will not alow propane bottles and in any case a full 20lb bottle for my wrecked body is a bloody big thing to cart around Australia looking for a fill. Just getting it out of the dink always re-tears my joints.
Of all the fuel wharves in Sydney Harbour ( and tributaries) none sell propane or do bottle swaps.
Only the marina at Brooklyn on the Hawkesbury River does bottle swaps. (IF I'm in the area)

So Ron, PANOPES selfless test has convinced me to use my little (emergency) butane stove for boiling water from now on. Butane cartridges are dirt cheap in a four pack at our hardware chain, super easy to carry, the stores are plentiful and I can carry twenty 20 butane cartridges in each hand legally on a bus and my arms are balanced nicely.

PANOPE, YOU HAVE CHANGED MY LIFE. THANK YOU.

RON, apples ain't always apples. It ain't always about "gettin' a better job". Not always money.

Ron, I always enjoy your comments but can you see where I & others could be coming from on this one?
Cheers Brother.......Panope....love ya'.
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Old 24-11-2016, 16:49   #176
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Here's the deal... this issue is of concern to a minuscule segment of the readers on this forum. I find it odd that someone who manages to have internet access to discuss such a issue is concerned about the insignificant cost to boil water for a cup of coffee of a bowl of pasta.

YES it doesn't concern me and I think it doesn't concern 99.5% of the members. And it's even hard to conceptualize the niche of boats that this would be of real concern. Take someone like our friend Dockhead who has an expensive Oyster or a huge cat and is concerned about a few pennies a year? I seriously doubt it and I don't know what his position is on this matter. Maybe the sailor with a 25' footer scraping buy and doing an around the world and is in some remote island in the South Pacific... I find it odd to think THAT sailor is looking for ways to make a cup of tea.

I just don't get it.
The reason "you just don't get it " Sandero is probably the same reason the word "supercilious" isn't part of you normal vocab....me tinks.

A bit of help for you is appropriate if you'll humour me for a moment.
I challenge you to 'google' ....."the man in the glass". It's a beautiful poem which I think everyone would enjoy.
Cheers Mate.
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Old 24-11-2016, 22:15   #177
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Most efficient ELECTRIC way to boil water on a boat

Does anyone have any hard evidence of which is a more efficient way to boil water - electric kettle or an induction stove?
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Old 24-11-2016, 22:51   #178
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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Same can be said about that freak who spent all that time videoing anchors

Steve
Great job on those anchor vids Steve. Watched it several times.
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Old 25-11-2016, 01:16   #179
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Re: Most efficient ELECTRIC way to boil water on a boat

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Does anyone have any hard evidence of which is a more efficient way to boil water - electric kettle or an induction stove?
I've been researching awhile and finally came across some actual numbers based on measurements taken using power meters. These are the results:
  1. The microwave was 34 percent efficient
  2. The electric tea kettle 71 percent efficient
  3. The induction hotplate 83 percent efficient.
Gas from various sites seems to come in at about 25% efficiency. However, I have seen the above four numbers reported +/- 10% on these various sites.

In any case, the above give some good indicative results.
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Old 25-11-2016, 04:33   #180
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Re: Most efficient way to boil water on a boat

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I'm sorry - did I say something wrong? It was a serious question. There doesn't seem to be any agreement as to what efficiency vector was being discussed. Is it really necessary to dig through 10 pages of thread to figure out what the thread is about?

A given volume of water boils with the same input BTU regardless of the energy source. So, the efficiency question is ridiculous without an additional given vector. Diesel would be the most energy dense material available on a boat. Therefore it is the most efficient from a material standpoint. However, it varies in price. How much a person makes allows them to purchase energy rather than generate it them selves, the availability of any given material changes depending on time of year and location, and so forth.

Therefore - the most efficient way to boil water depends on time available, location, and your finances.
Of course you didn't say anything wrong I took your question as a serious (and interesting) one, and was attempting to give a serious answer.

And I entirely agree with the rest of your post, which drills deeper than I did.

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