Innovative new kind of water maker - water from air

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

I have a ton of dehumidifiers all over my boat to try to keep the mold down. Do the Walmart dehumidifiers warm the boat up or cool it down? Wonder if I should be looking at water samples from either dehumidifiers or ref. air conditioners- see if those sources could easily be turned into potable water.
Finally, the device is not new- remember Dune? It had such a device in play on the planet. With wind always whipping around my boat, I wonder if it could be powered with just the wind (like on Dune).

All mechanical dehumidifiers that I have seen are vapor cycle, just exactly like an airconditioner, difference is an airconditoner moves the heat out of the area to be cooled by either water as in a boat of locating the condenser outside of the area like in a house or even a window unit.
A dehumidifier first cools the air by flowing it over the evaporator and condensing the water out, then the air flows over the condenser to be warmed.
Now of course since energy is being expended there is a net gain in air temp, so a dehumidifier is heating the air somewhat.

[col blumson]

I have the thought that modern magnets could be made to oscillate to draw in sea water through a big inlet that as the magnet oscillate back through a very small outlet it could have enough force to force this water through an osmosis filter. Even if only small amounts may be sufficient to be of use. Perhaps excess power from a solar supply could be used.
I do not know how much power would be needed to do even a small amount of water?
Or is it easier to just have a small 12 volt high pressure pump to do the job?
Thanks for any thoughts.
Silly old codger.

[onestepcsy37]

Col blumson, I had a similar idea using the oscillations described by Harvard University mathematician Edward Lorenz in 1961 and known as the "Butterfly Effect". All I need to continue development is an investor willing to pony up a couple hundred thousand dollars.

Oh, and maybe a million butterflies....

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by zboss

At the speed at which they are able to manipulate molecules and force them together in ways never before conceived its won't be long before we are able to break the law of thermodynamics and create permanently hot or cold materials.

Uh oh: entangled particles break second law of thermodynamics | DVICE

Following the link I read that the second law of thermodynamics has not been rescinded. I notice that the first law of journalism "thou shalt not let the truth get in the way of a good headline" is also still faithfully respected...



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[svGenesis]

My boss is an engineer who has numerous patents on turbo expanders (cryogenic hydrocarbon processing) basically this is an expander, these were first used in france in the 1920's on trains to supply water. A large stainless funneled tube would condense water from air. The air is basically vacuumed therefore cooled and the condensation forms. This happens when you use an airhose or even those patio mister's, the water or air wil expand and cool! You would need more than 10 knots and stainless steel would condense better

[Lars_L]

If you for compare take a Spectra Ventura 150 watermaker.
You also have a 100 W solarpanel.

It produces 568 l/day.
I takes 9 A on a 12 V system, that corresponds with 109 W.
On a day it takes 24 h * 109 W = 2616 Wh/day.
Or together 2616 Wh/day / 568 l/day = 4.61 Wh/l.

The 100 W panel produces 1 A in mean value over 24 h.
This is on a 12 V system and that will be 1 A * 12 V = 12 W.
That corresponds with 288 Wh/day.

The system then give you 288 Wh/day / 4.61 Wh/l = 62.5 l/day.

You can scale it up and get 125 l/day with a 200 W solarpanels,
or 250 l/day with 400 W solarpanels.
It’s also possible to scale it down a little and get 20 l/day with a 35 W solarpanel. That will be quite a waste of money since you have the same watermaker and that’s the expensive part.

Regarding the units I used you can writhe your opinion under
the thread “Convenience of the metric system” under the “Off topic” forum.

Abstract. A system built with:
Spectra Venture 150 watermaker.
100 W solarpanel.
60 Ah battery.
Will give you at least 50 l water per day.

[onestepcsy37]

Originally Posted by Lars_L

A system built with:
Spectra Venture 150 watermaker.
100 W solarpanel.
60 Ah battery.
Will give you at least 50 l water per day.

Now that is a good bit of information.

[Boatguy30]

I reckon we should all cheer innovation and wish him luck. As long as he doesn't end up selling 100% of his products to the U.S. government for stupid prices like our local "free market conservatives" local Solar Stix company.....

[zboss]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Following the link I read that the second law of thermodynamics has not been rescinded. I notice that the first law of journalism "thou shalt not let the truth get in the way of a good headline" is also still faithfully respected...



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

not rescinded - yet

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

I reckon we should all cheer innovation and wish him luck. As long as he doesn't end up selling 100% of his products to the U.S. government for stupid prices like our local "free market conservatives" local Solar Stix company.....

I agree, for his intended market - the cyclist - its a pretty good invention.

[Therapy]

The only problem I see with condensation units, be they this one or an AC unit, is what someone mentioned on another thread many moons ago. That is that condensation also includes particulates in the air be they neutral or bad for you. I don't know of any that would be labeled as "good", like vitamins or some such.

On a bike with the front wheel stirring up dust and all (no fenders noted - but even if...)what else would one be drinking?

Ah, a filter of course..........but what value filter? Bacteria or viruses or spores??? With stuff stirred up from dirt my biggest fear would be spores and that would be a tough filter to have that probably won't work passively.

Not to be too negative but.........

[s/v Beth]

I wonder if you put little condensation units on the end of a prop- but getting the water back to the center would be a problem. Maybe if you just had end units were the water collected for a while, then stop the prop and get a drink Maybe useful on a lifeboat?

[Pelagic]

Then of course you could just simply add sugar to the salt water

[sailorchic34]

One tiny issue with condensing water from air, is not so much the metal surfaces it condenses on, but more the dirt, dust and microbes that condense out of the air with it. A look at any defumidifier after 3-5 days running will "visibility" show that the water is not so potable.

From a straight power use Stndard RO uses less power then a rankine or peltier unit per gallon/liter of water produced. You could take the condensate from the A/C unit and run it through a low pressure RO unit to purify the water. But that just adds complexity to a system.

[DefinitelyMe]

Surely a market for these things in a ditch bag at least? The portable manual RO water makers are fine but they're labour intensive and the membranes degrade over time. This you could just stick to the top of your life raft, or they could design the rafts with this system build into them maybe?

If you need 10 knots of wind, presumably you could get that quite easily from lower wind speeds by just pointing a funnel into the wind. The constricted airflow through the funnel will accelerate the wind.

[jkindredpdx]

I think there are simpler solar stills for life raft / emergencies... The issue I've seen would occur when being tossed around... Don't see how this design overcomes that.


JimK