Gas v Electric Galley

[Simi 60]

New air fryer oven does the best pork crackling yet on board in 6 years.
Better than gas oven
Better than Webber Q

30 minutes veg and pork is done

In a pot (on gas) apples rendered down in home made limoncello for a sauce.
Thank you lifepo4 god for providing the power for our new toy.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

New air fryer oven does the best pork crackling yet on board in 6 years.
Better than gas oven
Better than Webber Q

30 minutes veg and pork is done

In a pot (on gas) apples rendered down in home made limoncello for a sauce.
Thank you lifepo4 god for providing the power for our new toy.

Now your just bragging .
Looks great now I'm hungry.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

No, you missed my point: it does not do what you write. Those were the first ones out but that time is behind us. They now have multiple real power levels. Think of it as an electronic light dimmer.

This is going to sound like a classic pantomime sketch but " Oh yes they do" cycle, I sit and watch the battery monitor changing from 60-75A back to say 5A and then back on again.

Pete

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Now your just bragging .
Looks great now I'm hungry.

Me too, because the Ninja Air Fryer won't run off our 1600w inverter

Shore power only, until the winter and a new bigger inverter.

These are looking a favourite at the moment at £400, transformer rather than mosfets.

https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en/...wer-6000W.html

Originally Posted by bergius

This will be our last cruise with gas. We’re still a bit on the fence between going alcohol or electric, though. We’ve got a 400Ah 12V LiFePO4 bank and 510W of solar, which is on the low side but might just work. Inverter would certainly need to be upgraded from our 500VA Victron unit.

Likely what we’ll do is a two-burner Origo cooktop and electric combo oven, plus an induction plate for when we’re on shore power. But I’ll be monitoring this an other similar threads for inspiration.

Likely our approach too. We might be able to install 600w of solar but that is pushing it on a 31ft yacht. Whilst it would work brilliantly from late March to early October, it doesn't on a drab January afternoon with the sun just 23 degrees at mid day. Since we like sailing in the winter, the gas hob and grill stays and gives us a gimballed surface to cook on at sea or during the winter.

The rest of the time its electric which has halved our gas usage each year. We may even switch back to Camping Gaz as Calor the major supplier in the UK and Ireland has made a complete shambles of their supply system. They introduced new cylinders which are taller than the original 4.5 butane or 3.9 propane and they don't fit many of the European yacht gas lockers Next they totally missed the market over the past two years when people couldn't travel abroad so bought boats, caravans and tents. Huge increase in demand and they could of made a killing, but fluffed it and there has been a real shortage of exchange cylinders.

Pete

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Me too, because the Ninja Air Fryer won't run off our 1600w inverter

Shore power only, until the winter and a new bigger inverter. D

These are looking a favourite at the moment at £400, transformer rather than mosfets.

https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en/...wer-6000W.html

These are a Chinese brand , ( power star ) and still have semiconductor switching elements

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

These are a Chinese brand , ( power star ) and still have semiconductor switching elements

Can you elaborate on this please, I don't understand the difference?

They are copies of the Sterling Power units, but with a slightly lower AC output. Seem well thought of by the canal boat fraternity.

Pete

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Pete7

This is going to sound like a classic pantomime sketch but " Oh yes they do" cycle, I sit and watch the battery monitor changing from 60-75A back to say 5A and then back on again.

Pete

Brand and type of induction cooktop? Do you have a 24V battery? If 12V then it should use much more current for full power.

My experience is that pulsing maximum power cooktops are in every price class but so are the ones with real power levels. I believe I have a $50 cooktop of 1800W that has real power levels, while I expected pulsing at that price.

I’l check, I have some at hand as well as the kill-a-watt meter.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Brand and type of induction cooktop? Do you have a 24V battery? If 12V then it should use much more current for full power.

My experience is that pulsing maximum power cooktops are in every price class but so are the ones with real power levels. I believe I have a $50 cooktop of 1800W that has real power levels, while I expected pulsing at that price.

I’ll check, I have some at hand as well as the kill-a-watt meter.

Sterling Power 1500w induction hob powered by a 12v inverter. Only we find we don't need to run it at 1500w, actually the inverter won't, 1400w is a struggle. However, most of our cooking is at 600-800w unless simmering pasta or rice at that is 200w.

The display on the Sterling, pretty much matches the power level being drawn from the BMS and display inverter when its pulsing on.

Pete

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Brand and type of induction cooktop? Do you have a 24V battery? If 12V then it should use much more current for full power.

My experience is that pulsing maximum power cooktops are in every price class but so are the ones with real power levels. I believe I have a $50 cooktop of 1800W that has real power levels, while I expected pulsing at that price.

I’l check, I have some at hand as well as the kill-a-watt meter.

From further research I have found indications that some high end models do throttle the current/magnetic field but only down to about 1/2 power, 900W then they start cycling the power on and off.
My sense is that dropping the current/magnetic field does not have a linear effect on heating and cycling on and off quickly is the only way to throttle the heat at lower powers. If the cycling is above 1Hz you probably wouldn't be able to tell except by watching a power meter.

Discussions about how power regulation is accomplished are hard to find. I will keep looking.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Sterling Power 1500w induction hob powered by a 12v inverter. Only we find we don't need to run it at 1500w, actually the inverter won't, 1400w is a struggle. However, most of our cooking is at 600-800w unless simmering pasta or rice at that is 200w.

The display on the Sterling, pretty much matches the power level being drawn from the BMS and display inverter when its pulsing on.

Pete

So you do have real power settings?! The cheap pulsing ones mentioned switch between full on (1500W for you) and full off.

When you use power settings (not temperature settings) then you will be able to find which settings are real power settings and which ones pulse to the next higher level. Example: 200W could be steady while 250W may be a pulsing 300W level. This is exactly how I described this earlier in the thread.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

So you do have real power settings?! The cheap pulsing ones mentioned switch between full on (1500W for you) and full off.

When you use power settings (not temperature settings) then you will be able to find which settings are real power settings and which ones pulse to the next higher level. Example: 200W could be steady while 250W may be a pulsing 300W level. This is exactly how I described this earlier in the thread.

The 200w setting is on for about 5 seconds and off for 20-30 seconds. The fan inside the induction hob keeps running so there is some draw even when not generating heat. Think it's about 6A to run the controls and the fan etc.

1000w is about 75A in the evening and nearly on full time. This drops to 60-65A during the day as it takes any output from the solar first or as well.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Can you elaborate on this please, I don't understand the difference?



They are copies of the Sterling Power units, but with a slightly lower AC output. Seem well thought of by the canal boat fraternity.



Pete

Low frequency Inverters tend to have better surge capability then high frequency due to the much larger magnetic coupling.

You pay for this in weight

Both types use semiconductor switches , usually mosfets to chop up the DC. The low frequency invertors traditionally recovered a sine wave output by means of filtering , sone where better at it then others.

pure sine HF is more complex true , but it’s hard to argue which is more reliable , but definitely HF invertors are less capable of handling things like motor startups etc.

[s/v Jedi]

Okay, I did the measurements on two units at hand. One is a $50 EurKitchen which is the cheapest China has to offer and it feels like that… but it works remarkably well. For power levels, it has 200W to 1800W in 100W steps. This is how it measures:

Idle: 0.4W
200: pulsing between 5.4 and 760W
300: pulsing between 5.4 and 760W
[…]
700: pulsing between 5.4 and 760W
800: 760 continuous
900: 860 cont
1000: 950 cont
1100: 1030 cont
1200: 1115 cont
1300: 1200 cont
1400: 1280 cont
1500: 1350 cont
1600: 1415 cont
1700: 1460 cont
1800: 1530 cont

So this unit has 11 real power levels plus 6 pulsed ones for the lowest settings. This with a $50 cooktop. I checked but it isn’t listed on Amazon anymore.

Next is the Duxtop unit I recommended earlier. This one is surprising! It has just 20 numbered settings, from 0-10 in 0.5 steps.

Standby: 0.6W
0.5: slowly ramping up from 6W to 500W then back to 6W and repeat
1.0: same to 600W
1.5: same to 660W
[…]
4.5 same to 815
5.0: 785W continuous
5.5: 850W cont
6.0: 911
6.5: 950
7.0: 1000
7.5: 1045
8.0: 1080
8.5: 1125
9.0: 1155
9.5: 1200
10: 1240

So it has 11 real power levels (!!! same as previous one !!!) plus 9 that use a slow ramp up. I believe all these ramp to 815W but lower levels don’t reach that far before switching off.

Also, this unit always ramps up and down to initial or changed power levels. This is great for inverters and batteries but also for generators. Like a soft start and soft stop. My Victron multiplus does the same when it starts charging batteries.

Also, both having 11 real power levels can’t be coincidental… this points to the same internal induction component used. Duxtop just created fancy electronics around it.

I have a professional Cooktek 3000W unit here as well but it is 240V which my meter can’t handle.

Also, the units never reach 1800W and values differ… I don’t think that’s accurate and most likely my meter can’t handle the power factor. This means that the absolute measured values are just an indication and all this shows is if a unit is pulsing, ramping or steady on.

Hope this helps. The Duxtop is highly recommended.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

…

So it has 11 real power levels (!!! same as previous one !!!) plus 9 that use a slow ramp up. I believe all these ramp to 815W but lower levels don’t reach that far before switching off.



…

Great data, thank you for doing the hard work on this one.

I have observed similar behaviour from my LG inverter microwave: pulsing lowish power at the lower power levels, increasing steady draw at the higher levels.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Pete7

The 200w setting is on for about 5 seconds and off for 20-30 seconds. The fan inside the induction hob keeps running so there is some draw even when not generating heat. Think it's about 6A to run the controls and the fan etc.

1000w is about 75A in the evening and nearly on full time. This drops to 60-65A during the day as it takes any output from the solar first or as well.

Hey Pete, you didn’t react to my post with all the measurements?

Anyway, I checked out your Induction hob as well. The data is simply in the user manual, so I attached a screenshot of that below.

As you can see, your unit has only 5 real power levels and 3 pulsed for 8 total. Yes this reduces abilities and I can see how users find that gas a more precise control.