Breadmaking -- By Hand? Or Machine?

[Dockhead]

In another thread, Jedi was extolling his breadmaking machine, and was claiming that it doesn't produce the lump-shaped formless loaves I'm used to seeing coming from bread machines.


So maybe I'm just not up to date with the latest tech. What are others using for this?


As I mentioned in the other thread, I've brought the boat back to the UK after years in the Baltic and suddenly have no access to the black sourdough whole grain rye bread I have become addicted to. Or to any decent bread at all for that matter; the UK rivals the US for having crap bread.


So I may need to revive my breadmaking skills. A machine would sure be a shortcut.


What are others doing?

[Dockhead]

The standard bread in Russia and Ukraine is called "Borodino" bread, or just "chorny khleb". It's sourdough rye, scalded mash, very black, and slightly sweetened with molasses. I ate that for decades when I was working in that region. After that the focus of my work shifted to Finland, Estonia and Latvia, where they also eat sourdough whole grain rye bread, but every country has its own styles.

My absolute favorite is Estonian "mustleib", especially that from Muhu Pagari in Tallinn - yum! With the Finnish "ruisleipa" a close second. Neither of these is sweetened at all. But Borodino, still available everywhere in the former USSR, will do fine in a pinch.


I'm pretty sure I won't be able to make any of these in a machine, as you need the "zavarka" (scalded mash) stage of the process for it to work.

[CaptTom]

Yes on the bread machine. Toss in the ingredients a few hours before stopping, and pull into the anchorage with the smell of fresh-baked bread coming from your cabin!

And, if you don't like the "lump" loaf, just use the "dough" cycle. Again, dump in the ingredients, push a button and let it do the mixing, kneading and first proofing. Then form it into a proper shape and bake it normally.

[jordanbettis]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

And, if you don't like the "lump" loaf, just use the "dough" cycle. Again, dump in the ingredients, push a button and let it do the mixing, kneading and first proofing. Then form it into a proper shape and bake it normally.

If you're going to do that why not get a stand mixer and also use it for other things besides bread?

[Greenroute]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The standard bread in Russia and Ukraine is called "Borodino" bread, or just "chorny khleb". It's sourdough rye, scalded mash, very black, and slightly sweetened with molasses. I ate that for decades when I was working in that region. After that the focus of my work shifted to Finland, Estonia and Latvia, where they also eat sourdough whole grain rye bread, but every country has its own styles.

I love Russian black bread. It's also the only bread I make because it requires hardly any work, you just kneed it a bit by hand, let it rise for 1 night, and pop it in the oven. No need for any machine.

[Franziska]

Use a silicone bread mold like this:


https://a.co/d/jdX1zlP


Put 500g of flower, two not two full coffee spoons of salt and also, if you like, two coffee spoons full of bread spices in it & stir.
Then take a glass and pour some lukewarm water in it + add a spoon of sugar and a satchel of dry yeat powder, stir, wait 5 minutes until it frowths a little
.
Add it to your flour in your silicone mold.
While stirring add a bit more water until it's a slightly dry dough.


Fold the mold close. Put it in the oven, warm it for a minute and wait for half an hour.
No need to stir again.


Then switch the oven on and bake it for 30-40 minutes @ 3/4 heat setting.


Result is a delicious and nicely shaped loaf of bread with a nice brown crust.


Super simple. To write it down took longer then to do it (excluding wait times).


All you need to clean is the spoon and silicone mold. You don't even get dirty hands.


Mix before coffee and going into the bathroom in the morning. Let it rise then and once out of the bathroom read the news while your bread is baking.


Bon appetit.

[MicHughV]

Ha...never thought I'd see a thread like this.

I've been making bread for ages....longer than ages....eons maybe..

On a boat...simplest bread to make is sourdough bread......500 gms flour...unbleached white...350 gms water.....10 gms salt.....100 gms sourdough starter...mix and fold, drop into bread pan....wait for 4 hours or so, to allow bread to "rise"
that's it....nothing else needed..place in 450 f oven for 30 minutes with cover...plus another 15-20 minutes without a cover.. remove from pan...let cool for an hour or so....and slice..

Even making the sourdough starter is a simple afffair.. takes about 7 days, using 2 minutes a day...but once you've made it....it lasts forever...no yeast needed.
When you are ready to make bread....add 50 gms flour plus 50 gms water to your starter, allow 4 hours or so, for starter to "rise" , remove 100 gms of product, add to the flour and water as above and mix in..

that's it....sounds a lot more complicated than it really is..once you've done it once or twice you can do it blindfolded.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Use a silicone bread mold like this:


https://a.co/d/jdX1zlP


Put 500g of flower, two not two full coffee spoons of salt and also, if you like, two coffee spoons full of bread spices in it & stir.
Then take a glass and pour some lukewarm water in it + add a spoon of sugar and a satchel of dry yeat powder, stir, wait 5 minutes until it frowths a little
.
Add it to your flour in your silicone mold.
While stirring add a bit more water until it's a slightly dry dough.

Fold the mold close. Put it in the oven, warm it for a minute and wait for half an hour.
No need to stir again.

Then switch the oven on and bake it for 30-40 minutes @ 3/4 heat setting.

Result is a delicious and nicely shaped loaf of bread with a nice brown crust.

Super simple. To write it down took longer then to do it (excluding wait times).

All you need to clean is the spoon and silicone mold. You don't even get dirty hands.

Mix before coffee and going into the bathroom in the morning. Let it rise then and once out of the bathroom read the news while your bread is baking.

Bon appetit.

Sounds very nice, and a good description of basic tropes of human happiness. Waking up gradually while the bread is baking, smelling it, with the taste of hot tea in your mouth.


My bread is sourdough, and not yeast, and is black as night. So for me the process is a little different.

[Island Time O25]

Dockhead, you guys probably also have East European grocery stores in UK. At the ones we have in US, in any city full of E. European immigrants, there are dozens of versions of dark and "grey" breads from the old country. Some are hand made in house, others are made in off premises immigrant owned bakeries. And most are very close to the original back home versions.

As to the bread machines, IMO they are convenient gadgets and produce reasonably decent bread but I have yet to see one which produces a hearty crust of an oven baked bread. Or even an air fryer baked one. Good enough but not the best.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Sounds very nice, and a good description of basic tropes of human happiness. Waking up gradually while the bread is baking, smelling it, with the taste of hot tea in your mouth.


My bread is sourdough, and not yeast, and is black as night. So for me the process is a little different.

While in E. Europe have you ever made "kvas" from such bread?

[SV EVE]

I used to make boules by hand back during land life and have worked with commercial yeast and my own starter.


Starter makes great bread, but if you've ever maintained one, it's a bit of work and flour to keep it going healthy.


We got a bread machine when we moved aboard and I'd say it makes passable bread.


Bread machine pros:
-flour is shelf stable, bread is not.

-no messy bows or utensils to clean, clean hands etc.
-no flour dust mess as there is no shaping / handling of the dough
-less cabin heat from the machine vs our propane oven, and I can even move the machine outside.
-at 700W, we can bake off the inverter w/ solar vs burning propane.



Cons
-doesn't yield good crust like you can get in a hot oven w/ dutch oven.
-poor oven spring (expected, as the machine cannot pre-heat)


Thoughts
Our propane oven heat output is inadequate to get crusty bread anyways. 1+ hrs to properly pre-heat and it doesn't get back to temp after putting the loaf in. Running the oven that long also heats up the surrounding cabinets and their contents....


We typically make 30% rye, which is still kind of like a boule. It works well in our machine with small loaves, bigger loaves collapse.


I am familiar with the rye breads you describe and have looked into making them. Many do not have sufficient gluten to support shaping and are proofed and baked in a loaf pan anyways, maybe it will work well in a machine.


You can do some pre-work to your ingredients, e.g., scaling on the stove, before adding to the machine. It may be possible to devise a workable process.


Our machine can run recipe phases independently, e.g., we can tell it to just run a stir cycle or just a timed bake. As such, custom processes can be achieved.


Bread machine can also make quick breads like banana bread!

[JPA Cate]

Dockhead,

I never had a bread machine--did all my baking by hand, not even a flour sifter, just a sieve-- but I do think you could cook your mash and add it to the Lekue baker that Franziska posted, and use that to finish mixing and cooking in. My understanding is that the heavy breads would need a strong machine, with a dough hook if you tried that.

One benefit of using the machine is that you don't wear out your shoulders for later in life, so I'd support the concept, if you can be sure it can work your dough enough.

Ann

[Island Time O25]

This thread reminded me of an old "turkey fryer onboard" topic some years back.

[MicHughV]

For those that don't know.
Starter Recipe.
1) In mason jar add 25 gms flour and 25 gms water, stir, and put on a shelf.
2) Next day, ie, 24 hrs later, with teaspoon remove about 1/2 the previous nights mix and add another 25 gms flour and 25 gms water. You will not have noticed anything at this time.
3) Day 3, once again, remove about 1/2 the previous nights mix and add another 25 gms flour and 25 gms water. You will still have seen nothing.
4) Day 4,repeat as above, remove 1/2 the mix, and add 25 gms flour and 25 gms water.
5) On day 5, you might start seeing the mixture with some ail bubbles on top and sides of the mason jar, but once again, remove 1/2 the mixture and add another 25 gms flour and 25 gms water.
6) On day 5, same as previous, remove and add, blah blah. You might notice a few more bubbles in mix.
7) Ok, last one, same as previous, remove and add.
8) By7 day 8 your mix should be quite frothy. At this point, you can leave in the fridge...icebox.

9) Now, when you are ready to bake break, remove the mason jar, and add 50 gms flow and 50 gms water. Place a rubber band around the mason jar indicating the level of your mix. Should be about 1/2 to 3/4" off the bottom. Wait for about 3-4 hours until mix has doubled in size, use the rubber band as a guide.
Once the mix has doubled in size, use a teaspoon and ladle out 100 gms of the mix and add to your water and flour mix and mix entire concoction for a good 5 minutes to ensure the starter is thoroughly mixed in with the flour.
After the 5 minutes, pour mix into bread pan and put aside for another 3-4 hours to allow mixture to "rise" and then place in oven as described above.

3) Next day,

[barnakiel]

I just mix it by hand (or more correctly - with a big wooden spoon). In a plastic bowl. It works and requires zero tools that would have one use only (or electricity, etc.)


So I just use salty water and yeasts (either live, or Mauri powdered, or the 'zakwas' ruski/polski/ukranian style). I add stuff when I have it - oats, havregryn, seeds, what might you have). Then I let it grow (say 1 hour). Then I bake it in a plain flat pan. Big fire, say 40 minutes or so.


Baked like that, it tends to be excellent for 3 days and edible for further 4 to 5. Easy pizy.


You also want butter. Which I never make. But I could. But no, in this country of **** milk, I just buy my butter.


Bon appetit! Na zdrovia!


barnakiel