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Old 27-06-2021, 16:52   #91
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Re: Alcohol or Propane?

I tried an ultralight alcohol stove for backpacking. Several designs including pressure and non-pressurized versions. Stoves can be very light and essentially free to make. But not worth it. Too slow and use excess fuel which negates any potential weight benefit. Love my little gas canister camping stove and use it- in the cockpit- on my Peep Hen 14' micro-cruiser. It will boil a liter of water in 100 seconds.
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Old 27-06-2021, 17:00   #92
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I use whatever's on the boat.. as long as I can brew a coffee and make a hot meal I don't give a toss.
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Old 27-06-2021, 20:17   #93
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Re: Alcohol or Propane?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seandepagnier View Post

Not a problem how? If the box is hot this is a clue it is wasting energy. It is a very large metal box which acts as a heatsink pulling heat away and dissipating it. The flame contacts metal in the stove before reaching the cooking vessel: the origo stove is a bad design.
Everyone knows the sliding seals on these stoves are not perfect and leak. if you leave them a few weeks there will be nothing left. I am not sure how your silicone sheet works, but unless it's a perfect seal, the alcohol will evaporate out. Now maybe there is a special cap which loses a gram a month in which case it's fine, however I have met several people using this stove, none of them had a cap. I did not know the cap existed until mentioned here.
Not to flog any dead horses, but the silicone sheets I have do cover and seal completely so they work fine. The metal box is not that large and not heavy gauge so I don't think it is a major heat sink. The burner does have a flame spreader, but that is directly below what I am cooking, so, sure there will be some heat loss, but propane has heat loss too. Things that are not connected to food get hot and radiate. Things connected to food get hot and radiate too. Even solar ovens waste some of their heat, unless they are insulated. My only point is that I don't think the Origo deserves so much disparagement. I cook twice a day for me and the kids, usually eggs, chicken, fish (if we catch any) hot dogs, hamburgers, soup... none of these demand a lot of heat really. Getting the kettle to boil takes the longest. It's safe enough that I trust the kids to use it without any concern.
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Old 27-06-2021, 21:06   #94
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Re: Alcohol or Propane?

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Not to flog any dead horses, but the silicone sheets I have do cover and seal completely so they work fine. The metal box is not that large and not heavy gauge so I don't think it is a major heat sink. The burner does have a flame spreader, but that is directly below what I am cooking, so, sure there will be some heat loss, but propane has heat loss too. Things that are not connected to food get hot and radiate. Things connected to food get hot and radiate too. Even solar ovens waste some of their heat, unless they are insulated. My only point is that I don't think the Origo deserves so much disparagement. I cook twice a day for me and the kids, usually eggs, chicken, fish (if we catch any) hot dogs, hamburgers, soup... none of these demand a lot of heat really. Getting the kettle to boil takes the longest. It's safe enough that I trust the kids to use it without any concern.
Would be interesting to get more independent comparisons of efficiency as clearly I cannot convince anyone. It is a large surface area, it does get hot, and the heat wasted is significant, but most humans don't seem to have much concern for fuel consumption.

It is also really common for people to ignore or oppose the truth when it contradicts whatever they have been doing. I cook 200 days a year and a gallon lasts 2 years, but I also use other methods like solar. I don't use any other fuel for any other purposes and I will eliminate alcohol completely as well. How much fuel per person do you use? Having more people to cook for is an advantage for efficiency.

It's true that almost all cooking methods people use aren't very efficient and most propane setups are anything but efficient. Slower stoves generally are more efficient, and the time it takes is also irrelevant unless you are the type who watches a pot boil. It's insane everyone using gas stoves isn't using a catalytic gas stove, for the efficiency increase but mostly for the health improvement and the amount of platinum needed is maybe $20 worth, but this ties back into people being unwilling to change what they have like the last guy posted he doesn't care he uses "whatever is in the boat"

The solar oven I have, really doesn't waste hardly any heat at all. It is vacuum insulated and completely cold on the outside while burning hot inside. A small amount of heat escapes through the silicone cap, but really this form of cooking is incredible and I was surprised at how well it works. With an electric heater it could work without sun and use a tiny amount of power, since the surface area in direct sunlight is about 1 square ft, which is about 100 watts. Not really any comparison to heat and speed with other solar oven types and wind and cold doesn't affect it.

Now it would be possible to design a fuel-based stove which uses vacuum insulation on the cooking vessel, and heat exchange the incoming combustion air with outgoing exhaust and all of this the efficiency would be an order of magnitude better than what almost everyone is using, and it seems incredible that although this is possible and would not be that expensive, the closest to this is a jetboil
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Old 27-06-2021, 21:25   #95
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Re: Alcohol or Propane?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanibel sailor View Post
I tried an ultralight alcohol stove for backpacking. Several designs including pressure and non-pressurized versions. Stoves can be very light and essentially free to make. But not worth it. Too slow and use excess fuel which negates any potential weight benefit. Love my little gas canister camping stove and use it- in the cockpit- on my Peep Hen 14' micro-cruiser. It will boil a liter of water in 100 seconds.
you probably didn't use a wind screen or make the stove to match the pot you are using.

It is less than half ounce of fuel to boil 2 cups normally (and continues to boil 3 minutes)

https://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/sho...t-2-cups-water

Try this with an origo and see if rolling boil of 2 cups with half an ounce (14 grams)

the speed you boil the water is irrelevant unless you are entering a contest for how fast, it will cook the food either way.
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Old 27-06-2021, 21:29   #96
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Re: Alcohol or Propane?

Too good to be true??
https://sectionhiker.com/jetboil-ann...ging-products/

If this actually works it would solve the issue of human waste and cooking fuel at the same time.
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Old 27-06-2021, 22:40   #97
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Re: Alcohol or Propane?

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Originally Posted by seandepagnier View Post
I was given an origo stove, and I did a comparison, it used basically twice the fuel to do the same thing as a homemade backpacking stove with wind screen. After trying a few times I realized it was a terrible stove and decided to toss it. Over 10 years I used 5 gallons of denatured alcohol, and with this stove, it would be impossible. I still have a gallon from march 2020 with 1/3rd remaining. After this I plan to eliminate alcohol completely and instead produce hydrogen from solar.

Not a problem how? If the box is hot this is a clue it is wasting energy. It is a very large metal box which acts as a heatsink pulling heat away and dissipating it. The flame contacts metal in the stove before reaching the cooking vessel: the origo stove is a bad design.
Everyone knows the sliding seals on these stoves are not perfect and leak. if you leave them a few weeks there will be nothing left. I am not sure how your silicone sheet works, but unless it's a perfect seal, the alcohol will evaporate out. Now maybe there is a special cap which loses a gram a month in which case it's fine, however I have met several people using this stove, none of them had a cap. I did not know the cap existed until mentioned here.


Electricity on the power grid is not solely from polluting sources, but using power from the grid still contributes to pollution. Using propane supports fracking.

With this admission, you owe a far larger debt than most.
This video shows the rubber cover you're supposed to use to keep the alcohol from evaporating. They came with the stoves. If people can't be bothered to RTFM, I guess things might not work as well as you expect them to.

https://youtu.be/PoirP0Ho3Vg?t=278
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Old 28-06-2021, 04:12   #98
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Re: Alcohol or Propane?

I think my first three sailboats had alcohol stoves on them. Suitable in my mind for a day sailor, where you almost never need to cook anything.

(Although I remember being saved by a mug of hot chocolate made on our alcohol stove one evening sailing home when the weather turned unexpectedly cold!).
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