Alcohol or Propane?

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by w32honu

I have been reading these posts as well as other threads with interest.....

It seems that the cost of various fuels comes up quite a bit. I dont think that should even be a factor. Its really a safety/preference question.

Alcohol fuel has been mentioned a lot with reference to its high cost. And it is more expensive. But in the big scope it seems to me irrelevant. Average consumption is about 1 gallon per month cooking full time. Thats an average cost of say $15 per month or 50 cents a day. We all have to cook and eat. So if we pay $9 per month or $15 per month its not a big deal. If we are cutting it that close on the costs to the cruising kitty, then we are walking a fine line indeed.

So for me it boils down to....

Propane: High BTU, convenient, easy to use, "potentially" VERY dangerous.
Alcohol (Origo): Hot enough, convenient, easy to use, NOT so dangerous.

As I said, I had a couple of "flares" with a pressurized alcohol stove...never again. I would consider, were I in a small boat, alone or with a coupe cooking only lightly or occasionally, an Origo unit. They seem the best and safest way to use alcohol for cooking. Alcohol is still a low BTU fuel, however.

Diesel would seem the most logical for a proper gimballed stove, but I only ever see it on pretty hard-core "distance" cruisers, presumably because refilling propane is problematic outside of North America due to the absence of supply and differences in valves and related plumbing.

I'll stick with my campstove on a plank for now on my Lake Ontario-only boat. I never finished converting my old Homestrand to propane, although it is simply a matter of going to a barbeque repair parts store. I just don't want propane inside with the Atomic 4 gas inboard, even with a sensor.

[noelex 77]

I have cruised on a boat a non pressurised alcohol stove top and think that it is safer than propane.
Accidents with alcohol stoves are almost always due to operator error.

However, propane/butane is very hard hard to beat for convenience and with a bit of care it is still a very safe alternative.

If crusing long distance you do need a lot of propane storage. Many production boats have woefully inadequate storage and will only fit certain sized tanks. Regulators, or adaptors to fit local tanks are readily available, but you need to be able to store different sized bottles in a ventilated secure compartment.

If you can keep about 30-40KG of propane/butane your cruising life will be much easier.

[Teknav]

The meaning of life boils down to...Alcohol or Propane! I sailed the seven seas, pondering this question. I even climbed Mt. Everest and spoke to His Serene Highness the Benevolent Guru of Gas, who has daily contacts with High Spirits (hic)... He too pondered about that question! A few weeks later, he had a revelation from a Higher Order...the sky darkened...one million ducks flew overhead...then, he declared: "ALCOPANE, it is!" (Tell'em Charlie sent ya!)

Mauritz
Laugh and the world laughs with you...

[Capt RonB]

I've pondered this alcohol vs propane question before when the budgets tight. I've decided that I can eat cold food but I still want my rum. Filling the propane tank can wait.

[kirsi]

I have a Kenyon alcohol/electric and it works great for me a single hander. When I am at the dock, I use the electric. Alcohol at sea or cruising.

To refill, I got a lid from a backpacking store that has a pour spout and fits in the 1 liter metal bottles. I then refill this from my 1 gallon bottle. Very easy to refill.

It may take longer to cook than propane, but a boat is slower than a car. I relax and let it do it's business.

Someone said in a pinch you can use vodka if you cannot find alcohol.

A friend of mine really wanted to add propane. He did not have a locker, and did not like the bottles hanging off the back. So he added a propane locker on the back of his boat. Now his boat is lower in the water in the stern. LOL.

[foggysail]

Have used alcohol, kerosene, electric and PROPANE! Propane by all means is by far better than the alternatives. My present boat has electric which just might get changed next year to propane.

[capn ken]

local cruising .co and smoke alarms already on board . Installing a new lpg system . I finally gave up on trying to find anybody to charge up my CNG tanks.

[Sohum]

Propane is a high octane very efficient fuel. Like any gas, propane combustion emits carbon dioxide(at a lower level), will produce CO, carbon monoxide w/incomplete combustion. Doesn’t produce sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides or methane. When it comes to carbon emissions, propane ranks as one of the cleanest. Combustion efficiency can be seen at the flame. All blue,(very little, tiny yellow at flame tips, ok) is complete combustion. Blue orange, and yellow flame is incomplete combustion, the more yellow/orange the flame shows, signifies greater incomplete combustion. This needs to be addressed. Spillovers from cooking should be clean. Keep burner holes and igniter clean of grease and debris.
In the US. propane manufacturers add a chemical to give the “rotten egg” smell as warning of gas leak. Add propane sniffers. Soap and water sprayed at connections and crimps is a easy leak test. I always do this when switching tanks. Very important tanks aren’t overfilled, I store full tanks on a mount at the stern, pressure release valves facing overboard.
1 lb propane = 91500 btu. Hope some find this useful info.

[capn ken]

propane sniffers ,any recomendations ? some are cheap ,some others Quite a bit more !

[Sohum]

Originally Posted by capn ken

propane sniffers ,any recomendations ? some are cheap ,some others Quite a bit more !

Choose a marine gas control system with detection you can add additional sensors to the control unit. Trusted brands would be best here.
Regarding separate stand alone alarm, I don’t have a recommendation.
Best

[laird]

There were 2 or three Mac 26x going through the French canals ,one of the guys got very badly burned from his alcohol stove ,one of the other crews had to kick him into the canal to put the flames out ,I'd stick with propane and two functional gas detectors

[Don C L]

I think when this thread was started 10 years ago, some respondents were referring to pressurized alcohol stoves, which are definitely dangerous, I agree, having had one. I have no problem with a properly set up propane system, but on a smaller boat such as mine, an unpressurized Origo stove makes a lot of sense and is not dangerous. It is simple, there are no tanks, hoses, solenoids or lazarettes that can drain. Heat is sufficient for the majority of things you'll cook on a small boat. I don't boil pots of water for spaghetti though, that's a waste of fuel and water, IMO. Now, FINDING an Origo now will be the challenge!

[seandepagnier]

origo stoves are very inefficient and use twice as much fuel as a homemade alcohol stove from a can. I can't understand why anyone would want to use a stove that wastes so much heat. pressurized alcohol can be dangerous, but nonpressurized is not at all dangerous unless you spill fuel everywhere then light it and even then it's not very dangerous.

As for propane, it is out of the question. It comes from fracking which is bad. You can't use propane and not be in favor of fracking and stepping on indigenous rights, people who have been kicked around for centuries. Most of the energy is already consumed and emitted before you even get the propane as it takes more energy to extract refine compress and transport it than is in the actual fuel. It also produces harmful emissions which are unsafe to breath in an enclosed space unless you use a catalytic stove which requires platinum.

I am currently cooking every day with a an evacuuated tube solar oven. This is the best option for cooking since it uses no fuel and you can bake things like bread. It is just as hot and fast as a regular oven if you use a reflector, and even partial clouds are not a problem. A fuel based oven uses a lot of fuel, everyone who has one knows how much it takes to run an oven.

Other options include electric cooking which is considered the best option by health experts since there are no emissions to breath. It is also more convenient and runs from the solar panels. Unlike fuel based cooking, it can be insulated much better as there are no flames. Typical gas stove is 10% efficiency meaning you could do the same cooking with 10% of the energy, but people don't and end up heating their boat with the 90%.

Trying to use an electric stove top would waste huge amount of energy and be similarly terrible as a gas stove. I use a 12 volt slow cooker which food is well insulated then wrapped in a blanket so the heat cannot escape. The power consumption in my case 12 amps, 12 volts and cook a meal in 45 minutes.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by Sohum

Propane is a high octane very efficient fuel. Like any gas, propane combustion emits carbon dioxide(at a lower level), will produce CO, carbon monoxide w/incomplete combustion. Doesn’t produce sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides or

propane produces borderline dangerous levels of NOx health experts recommend switching to electric.

https://qz.com/1941254/experts-are-s...of-gas-stoves/
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/12...n-the-kitchen/
"s of toxins like nitrogen oxides, particulate matter, and carbon dioxide, all of which exacerbate asthma and cardiovascular illness."
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...onment/616700/

"Homes with gas stoves can contain approximately 50 to 400 percent higher concentrations of NO2 than homes with electric stoves, often resulting in levels of indoor air pollution that would be illegal outdoors"

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/n...ls-d_1086.html

propane produces NOx You must use a catalytic stove or better just not use it.

methane. When it comes to carbon emissions, propane ranks as one of the cleanest.

This is completely incorrect. Most of the emissions are produced before you have the propane. open gas stoves are terribly inefficient. You are getting 1-3% of the energy from the original crude oil if you cook on propane.

[Spot]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

origo stoves are very inefficient and use twice as much fuel as a homemade alcohol stove from a can. I can't understand why anyone would want to use a stove that wastes so much heat. pressurized alcohol can be dangerous, but nonpressurized is not at all dangerous unless you spill fuel everywhere then light it and even then it's not very dangerous.

Hi Sean,
Could you please recommend a design or designs for a more efficient alcohol can stove? Are there adjustments to cookware or technique in using an Origo to increase its efficiency?
Thanks!