Why is the CG Unintelligible When They are on the Radio?

[boat driver]

Originally Posted by Snore

Rob you are right and wrong. I have had to converse with the Coasties in some urgent situations. Yes when we are one-on-one keep it short and proper. And sorry but NIMS training specifically precludes the use of jargon.

On the other hand as a delivery guy I get to listen to every PAN-PAN and SECURITE, repeatedly. It is part of the penance of a coastal run.

Some of those broadcasts are useless and border on unintelligible. Keep in mind the recipient is out sailing or listening to the drone of the engines. They hear a a PAN-PAN. I would guess the whole broadcast WITH Lat/Lon is done is 15-25 seconds. Hell I can barely get catch the degrees and min to see if I am close.

The other craziness is a SECURITE call and using a local Nickname. Something like “submerged log by pickle island”. A transiting boat has no idea where pickle island is. How about a lat/Lon! Once again, if I a nearshore I will radio for the location.

PS- not looking to debate. Just hope that a coastie officer reads this post and maybe makes some changes

The coastie officer is responding.
The problem begins with routine calls that have regulatory repeat/jargon that must be said but everyone knows. It is easy to speed read the "fine print" and forget to slow down when into the meat of the message.
The equipment has variables that certain voice tones emphasize. This is further degraded by the cheap speakers on recreational equipment and various unregulated installations. This is why various synthesized messages are utilized- (aka weather) as this minimizes the interference.
The lat-long is used in offshore and large water bodies, but most recreational vessels are not prepared to receive nor are they necessarily situational aware of their locations.
Last discussion of local locations vs other descriptions- again, the effort is to get the message to the most recipients- and it is not perfect. The use of electronic charts adds to the problem as most small recreational vessels do not have a big picture awareness of certain prominent local locations, thereby they miss the communication. Paper charts often covered large sectional areas vs the small recreational plotter barely has the immediate local area.

[robbennie]

Sounds like the problem stems mainly from the east coast, does it? In the Pacific Northwest I never have any trouble understand Seattle, they are clear and usually repeat the location so there is no confusion. If I have any complaint it is that they use so much power they broadcast a long way into areas of British Columbia where they have no function or role, stepping on local transmissions.

[toddster8]

Dunno about high power - for inland PNW waters (i.e. Columbia River) the USCG has a series of remote base-stations or repeaters to carry the signals beyond line of sight along navigable waters.

Seems like most of these kids spend about a minute cranking out their lengthy call sign three times, and the boilerplate part of the message. But when they get to the meat, it's always: "THE COAST GUARD HAS RECEIVED REPORTS OF *mumble* NEAR *mumble*. ALL VESSELS TRANSITING THE AREA ARE REQUESTED TO KEEP A SHARP LOOKOUT AND RENDER ASSISTANCE IF POSSIBLE." They might repeat it after fifteen minutes. Usually, it's a mystery what they're on about.

I always picture that skinny pimply-faced cartoon kid from "The Simpsons" that they use for all the McJob characters.

[Bertinc]

I’ve been a Radio Watchstander volunteer at a local CG station and will attest to their professionalism and rigorous training. For me to qualify for this important task required hours of training, supervision and testing of both rules and proper procedures but also in depth knowledge of the local AOR. (Area of Responsibility)
Sitting and observing Coastie Watchstanders gave me an insight as to the professionalism they all took at this important job.

True that the CG is made up of people with human flaws but if the important transmissions cannot be understood and repeated with more clarity, then the OOD should be notified as he is the immediate chain of command. In our area, if a station’s or another station’s transmission is garbled or deemed unintelligible then Sector with their increased power of transmission would take over. There are safeguards in place so important transmissions will be carried out.

Rather than paint a broad picture that the system is broken I would say every system can be improved upon given the awareness of the problem.

The USCG protects lives and are Semper Paratus, Always Ready!

[smacksman]

Now don't get me wrong. I think the CG do an excellent job. I have been boarded for a snap check and they were perfectly civil and helpful. It's just on a pleasure boat vhf tinny speakers and an engine running, fast talking does not help the message get across whereas the excellent WX weather robot voice comes across clearly.
An example of the CG helping a sinking boat ... https://youtu.be/QjZlCH45Jow?t=661 on one of my clips

[toddster8]

I've listened to four or five CG transmissions in the (almost) two hours since my last post. Not a single one was clearly enunciated, although today I could mostly figure out what they were trying to say. I don't see what's so hard about calmly and clearly reading the script, instead of trying to make a ten-syllable phrase into five.
It has nothing to do with the equipment

[sailcub]

Originally Posted by carstenb

WE now sailing in the US and we frequently hear the USCG on the radio. Despite being a European, I am a native english (american) speaker. The USCG broadcasts are unintelligible.

1 - They are speedtalkers like I've never heard before - they literally are talking so fast that even I can't follow what they say.

2- They almost all hold the mike much too close to their mouths and that also makes the speech impossible to decipher.

Don't they get radio training? When I went to radio school I was taught (and tested in) speaking in a normal voice and speed, enunciating clearly and making sure I finished enunciating each word correctly. I was also taught to hold the mike away from my mouth so my breath didn't sound in the mike and finally I was taught to speak slowly.

I was also taught that vitally important information, such as position, should be repeated to ensure that it was correctly understood - the USCG never does this


Yesterday, sailing in the San Juans, the USCG put out a PAN PAN. The Guardsman was speedtalking so fast that there was no way to understand and be able to jot down the position he was giving where there were persons in the water. We were in the vicinity, but because he was so unclear, we couldn't determine if we were close enough to help.


Does anyone know why they are incompetent to use a radio? It must be a lack of training - but why no training?

By the way - we had this experience with virtually every CG radio signal we heard and we've heard lots

How about this, get a hold of the CG and ask THEM.....seems like that's who should direct the question

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Bertinc

I’ve been a Radio Watchstander volunteer at a local CG station and will attest to their professionalism and rigorous training. For me to qualify for this important task required hours of training, supervision and testing of both rules and proper procedures but also in depth knowledge of the local AOR. (Area of Responsibility)
Sitting and observing Coastie Watchstanders gave me an insight as to the professionalism they all took at this important job.

True that the CG is made up of people with human flaws but if the important transmissions cannot be understood and repeated with more clarity, then the OOD should be notified as he is the immediate chain of command. In our area, if a station’s or another station’s transmission is garbled or deemed unintelligible then Sector with their increased power of transmission would take over. There are safeguards in place so important transmissions will be carried out.

Your profile says Annapolis so you are in my backyard. CGAUX radio watchstanders at Station Annapolis don't do much since Rescue 21 went active here about ten years ago. See my post above. The non-rates in the Sector radio rooms really are not professional. This does not reflect on the small boat crews or the cutters. It does reflect on training and supervision in the Sector radio rooms and that reflects on the COs.

You're going to need footnotes for AoR knowledge in training as in my experience the CG simply doesn't have that in most Sectors. Without lat/lon the Sector may not even know which station to deploy. CG doesn't do well with depth either. I was on scene when the CG proposed to tow an 8' deep boat through Oregon Inlet with wind over tide. That's like dragging someone through Knapp's Narrows in 3' chop. Not a good idea.

[sailcub]

Originally Posted by Creedence

Not to be pedantic, but a little quiz for my Cav scout friend BlackHeron (I was a Cavalryman too, and beers are on me if you find your way to Tampa!!)...

"Say again, over" NOT "Repeat" Why??

Repeat is used when you want artillery to fire in the same spot again

[capnJ]

Thishs e youniyedshtayscosegodsekrlawniyansoun.
Thishs e youniyedshtayscosegodsekrlawniyansoun.
Thishs e youniyedshtayscosegodsekrlawniyansoun.
It took me at least two summers to understand what that awful mouthful was. I heard it a hundred times in the New York Connecticut area and it was a long time dawning on me.
It was really appalling. I was told they put cheap recruits on the radio in order to put their competent people into actual S&R duties. I decided to believe that, because I've heard nothing bad about their S&R sector.

One day we were arriving at Hamilton in Bermuda and I heard the local coast guard there address us from tens of miles away. They were crisp and clear and articulate and took their time to convey their message. I wish I had a recording of their diction. I was in awe.

[Donald Bryden]

I had a career in the USCG Reserve and all of it in small boat search and rescue. The small boats were the 41 foot Utility Boat and the 44 foot Motor Life Boat. I served on the Pacific Ocean and on the Great Lakes. Now, it seems that most sailors think that the person on the radio has spent time in a radio training school, but that is not how it works. In my experience the radio operator has other primary duties and has qualified to also be a radio watch stander. To qualify, you must learn your operations area well, and you must have a basic understanding of navigation. Then you sit along side a qualified watch stander to learn on the job. All this training is reviewed by higher ups and when a coastee is deemed qualified he is put on the radio watch schedule. When you hear a broadcast from the Coast Guard station, you might be hearing an old salt or a teenager standing his first unsupervised watch. So, in my opinion, if you hear a broadcast that might be important to you and you don't get part or all of the message, get on the radio and ask for a clarification. It is a two way radio and there is no problem with calling the Coast Guard for marine related information. Just don't ask for a radio check.

[Lesliesailsaway]

Originally Posted by carstenb

WE now sailing in the US and we frequently hear the USCG on the radio. Despite being a European, I am a native english (american) speaker. The USCG broadcasts are unintelligible.

1 - They are speedtalkers like I've never heard before - they literally are talking so fast that even I can't follow what they say.

2- They almost all hold the mike much too close to their mouths and that also makes the speech impossible to decipher.

Don't they get radio training? When I went to radio school I was taught (and tested in) speaking in a normal voice and speed, enunciating clearly and making sure I finished enunciating each word correctly. I was also taught to hold the mike away from my mouth so my breath didn't sound in the mike and finally I was taught to speak slowly.

I was also taught that vitally important information, such as position, should be repeated to ensure that it was correctly understood - the USCG never does this


Yesterday, sailing in the San Juans, the USCG put out a PAN PAN. The Guardsman was speedtalking so fast that there was no way to understand and be able to jot down the position he was giving where there were persons in the water. We were in the vicinity, but because he was so unclear, we couldn't determine if we were close enough to help.


Does anyone know why they are incompetent to use a radio? It must be a lack of training - but why no training?

By the way - we had this experience with virtually every CG radio signal we heard and we've heard lots

I absolutely agree with you. It is almost impossible to hear what the CG is saying. It is sinful! They are so valuable but they need a lot of improvement.

[pendragon]

Record the broadcast and put playback on 33 1/3

[toddster8]

Originally Posted by pendragon

Record the broadcast and put playback on 33 1/3

Oh, so you've dated a New York girl before?

[CyKlop]

Something to keep in mind is "what are you used to". As an instrument-rated pilot, I'm used to taking down my clearance at a clip that a non-pilot would find very intimidating, if they could even get all of it. As someone else said, I am familiar with the cadence and even the order of things so I know what I _really_ need to listen to, and what I _should_ listen to right this moment.

The same happens on the water. If you gather together lack of practice (that's not a negative on any of you - practice is simply exposure to them) with spotty reception plus other distractions and noises, it can be difficult. Add in unfamiliar terms such as "Pickle Island" and life gets crazy difficult. On the other hand, a local boater who is quite familiar with their local radio operators, and things are just fine.

It probably also helps that I did a lot of my growing up in NY where people talk rapidly anyway.