When are nautical terms better, and when are they not?

[qwert]

Jolly handy to have an alternative language if you're unexpectedly boarded by pirates

[StuM]

Originally Posted by cyan

Ready to tack?
Ready.
Tacking,
Wait for it,
Wait for it,
Release!

Apart from the fact that I call "Now" instead of "Release", that's what I do initially when I run the "Keelboat Learn To Sail" course.


After a few goes, I tell them I'm not going to call it.

Then if necessary, we go back to calling it again.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by StuM

Apart from the fact that I call "Now" instead of "Release", that's what I do initially when I run the "Keelboat Learn To Sail" course.

After a few goes, I tell them I'm not going to call it.

Then if necessary, we go back to calling it again.

Ah, good to hear that from an instructor! I'm not alone, then. I like the warning about not calling it out next time. Much better than our comedy...
ME: "Noooo!"
NEWBIE: "But you said 'tacking'?"
ME: "I did, but you need to... GRRRRR."

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by cyan

We use the same…

Ready to tack?
Ready.
Tacking.

Works very well. BUT I have a question. What do you say to the brand new trimmer or grinder who hears all this exciting build-up to the climatic turn?… and releases the sheet when they hear “tacking”. Too soon.

This has happened more than once on our boat. A first-timer needs a cue, IME, as the release of the job sheet is not always intuitive. With certain newbie crew we’ll go..

Ready to tack?
Ready.
Tacking,
Wait for it,
Wait for it,
Release!

However, I’m torn. [SIC] This new crew member needs to learn the timing without a shout. I think I’m causing more harm than good. My jib would disagree, though. Thoughts?

No, don't do that.

People need to be informed that a tack is coming and is happening "now" but once informed they can watch the sails and do their jobs without being coached on every step.

When initially training the person to release the jib you tell them what to watch for (luff beginning to backwind, or what ever your normal release point is) and then let them do it. You can call (loudly) "release, Joe!" if they don't do it. Then a post-tack reminder about what they are supposed to look for. If they miss a few times, a firm reminder, and why, should be forthcoming.

On our boat we have a walkthrough for releasing and for tailing before we go out with new people. If they blow the release it can damage an expensive jib so we emphasize the importance of it. But we don't tell them when to do it in real time. There are 10 people on the boat and 10 jobs, we can't manage it for all of them, they have to think for themselves.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by wingssail

No, don't do that.

People need to be informed that a tack is coming and is happening "now" but once informed they can watch the sails and do their jobs without being coached on every step.

When initially training the person to release the jib you tell them what to watch for (luff beginning to backwind, or what ever your normal release point is) and then let them do it. You can call (loudly) "release, Joe!" if they don't do it. Then a post-tack reminder about what they are supposed to look for. If they miss a few times, a firm reminder, and why, should be forthcoming.

On our boat we have a walkthrough for releasing and for tailing before we go out with new people. If they blow the release it can damage an expensive jib so we emphasize the importance of it. But we don't tell them when to do it in real time. There are 10 people on the boat and 10 jobs, we can't manage it for all of them, they have to think for themselves.

In a breeze we tack in a matter of seconds. If I'm tending the jib I say "ready" and I know how and when to bring it across. When I sailed beach cats all we said was "Now!" You knew the trap-to-trap drill or you went for a swim.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by wingssail

No, don't do that.

People need to be informed that a tack is coming and is happening "now" but once informed they can watch the sails and do their jobs without being coached on every step.

When initially training the person to release the jib you tell them what to watch for (luff beginning to backwind, or what ever your normal release point is) and then let them do it. You can call (loudly) "release, Joe!" if they don't do it. Then a post-tack reminder about what they are supposed to look for. If they miss a few times, a firm reminder, and why, should be forthcoming.

As someoone who spent many years conducting skills training, I disagree completely!

Calling it after they missed the release point is little help in learning exactly when they should release. And doesn't help at all if they release early (And a "firm" reminder is not a good training technique )

They learn much quicker if you tell them what to watch for, make sure they are watching for it and call the release point the first few times so they rapidly get a feel for it.

Leaving it up to them and then trying to explain by how much their timing was out is a very ineffective way of learning the correct timing (and can do a bit of damage to expensive sails in the process).

[StuM]

Originally Posted by thinwater

In a breeze we tack in a matter of seconds. If I'm tending the jib I say "ready" and I know how and when to bring it across. When I sailed beach cats all we said was "Now!" You knew the trap-to-trap drill or you went for a swim.

True - once they have learnt. But we are talking about teaching a skill. The post that started this was:

What do you say to the brand new trimmer or grinder
...
With certain newbie crew we’ll go..

[sailingabe41ds]

If the intent is to be most clear to the listener....then the focus is on whom the listener is.
For nautical folks....I use nautical terms. For friends and my wife it is "grab the red rope on the right side of the boat and put it around the round metal thing".
Our boat has two bedrooms, one in the front and one in the back with lots of closet space. It also has two bathrooms with clean toilets next to the bedrooms. The kitchen is kind of small and so is the living room and dinner table, but the area in the back of the boat where we sit outside is nice. The reason it has two steering wheels is that it makes it easier to see the front sail from either the right or the left side of the boat from the back. The big TV screen...well, that tells me where all the other boats are, where land is, and helps me drive the boat through the water like MAPQUEST. If you have to stop the boat just pull back on that black lever and that is your boat brakes. Finally, you can use the term man over board in case I ever fall of the boat because by the time you figure out which pronoun to use...well, I will be 50 feet under (I guess that is one scenario that phantoms, meters, feet not make much of a difference).


Abe

[st0nes]

My vet laughed when I told him my dog's starboard aft leg was giving him trouble.

Yes, it's a saloon, not a salon. Salon is where ladies go to have their hair and nails overhauled.

Why don't yachtsmen know what a spurling pipe is?

[Auspicious]

This is hard for me as I am a pedant (not a pendant) but I try not to be pedantic. I do follow best practices from the professionals. That means steering directions are 'left' and 'right,' although when beating in a race I may call 'up' or 'down' for minor adjustments. I'm still getting used to be an AHITB though.

I have a lot of turnover in delivery crews and clarity is more important than "proper vocabulary."

I definitely use 'drive' as more specific than anything to do with 'helm' which may be the role, the wheel, or the entire pedestal et al. This is usually in the context of "stop working so hard and let the autopilot drive." I won't get into the ego-driven silliness of a Christmas tree of instruments at the pedestal.

'Captain' or 'master' are for C&I documents. Underway I'm 'skipper,' 'boss,' or mostly 'Dave.' Sometimes 'Daaaaavve' usually at 3am in the rain when I'm in my underwear and something has broken.

Generally halyards are halyards and sheets are sheets but colors, even if only tracers, get called if there is any possibility of confusion or if stress is high.

Docking is easy as it is planned in advance and I can inspect the setup (fenders tied on, sitting on deck ready to go over, lines routed and coiled, final briefing in the cockpit to remind everyone that I am in charge, not some witless dockhand. Lines go over when and how I say no matter what anyone else yells. Sore point. Regardless, vocabulary is not very relevant - we use it during the brief but in the moment "Jim - line over that piling and back to the cleat, please - call it when made." "Sandy - your line around that cleat and back to the boat." "Claire - you can go ahead and step off with your line and walk it up to that dock cleat and through it back to Jim." It's really easier when I'm alone.

[JBP]

If i expect the crew to help, I generally announce well in advance "We are going to come about when we get to (some spot, bouy, etc)" and use "Ready about/hard a'lee" when it's time. "Hard a'lee" simply because it's fun to say and sounds like "heartily". If I don't expect the crew to help, I just announce "I'm tacking " so they know to hold on if necessary.
Downwind it's "prepare to jibe/jibe ho" so as to avoid confusion.
I frequently do a jib assisted tack (my auto pilot is not great at tacking) where it's "ease the jib", "back the jib", "let loose", then "haul in".

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by StuM

True - once they have learnt. But we are talking about teaching a skill. The post that started this was:

Many side threads. The question that started this is "when are nautical terms better." My point, re. the beach cat, is that the best term my be "now" or "go."



Yes, teaching is different. You discuss before the action and give minimal or no instructions during the maneuver, because they often just result in information overload for the student. In fact, in this case, my position is not so different. Even with a beginner, there would be little conversation during the tack. First, I would have had them steer through the tack while watching me bring the jib across. I would point out when I cut it loose and why and how quickly, and when and how quickly and why I trimmed it in the way I did. Then we would switch places, and I would let them try, without instruction. Afterwords, we would debrief and repeat.


The first few times it would be "let out" and "release," not "ease," and it would be "pull in" and "tighten," not "trim."

[rls8r]

Nautical terms are interesting (amusing, and often confusing). Being raised in a family of commercial watermen, I don't really think about using them until I go out sailing with folks who are not familiar with the terms - and then I use "right", "left", "forward", etc., after explaining that everything is in relation to the boat - not to the people.

Of course, there are other "familiar" terms that often cause confusion when applied in a nautical situation. For instance - outside, you walk on the deck [unless you were brought-up around small-ish (<40') deadrise boats, in which case you (or rather, we) call it a washboard - but some sailing folks call companionway drop boards "washboards" ]. Below (or "downstairs") in the saloon (or salon) we walk on the cabin sole, which is/are on top of the floors. When the boat rocks or lists, we sometimes reach out laterally to brace ourselves against the ceiling. If it's very rough we sometimes bump our heads on the overhead.

I've given up on the "faking" vs "flaking" argument. I use "faking" for lines and "flaking" for sails - but I'm very flexible and allow others to use what terms they want - as long as I understand what they are trying to say.

I'm constantly surprised at how many people (some of whom claim to have sailed for many years) call the main sheet the "downhaul." More than a few times I've been asked to "take in on the downhaul" - and when I walk forward to the mast (and see no downhaul) and look back in confusion the exasperated skipper points to the main sheet and tells me "that's the downhaul - it pulls down on the boom."!!

I've created confusion when I absentmindedly tell folks to make a line "fast" to that stob, or cleat, or post (or dolphin!).

I prefer to use nautical terms, and I think that they're "better" when everyone that I'm talking to/with knows them - but I certainly appreciate that common understanding is the goal, so non-nautical terms often work better in some situations. It's just best to make sure that everyone knows what things and actions are called.

PS: I just tell folks (or ask them if they want) to "take the wheel for a while."
PPS: Sometimes folks are amused at how many animals are on some boats. I've been on boats with "hounds", "catheads", "Flemish horses", "dolphin stikers", etc.
PPPS: To me, a "kedge" is an anchor of any size that you use to "kedge" your boat. A small anchor is a "killick" (not to be confused with a "kellet.") It can be a "regular" anchor - or anything that will hold the boat for a short time (e.g., rock, piece of concrete, etc.).
PPPPS: I'm with the crowd that calls the thing that connects the anchor to the boat the "rode." It can be chain or rope (or both), and may involve a bridle and/or snubber.

[AKA-None]

I prefer to not use go in any command/request as it sounds to much like no

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

That means steering directions are 'left' and 'right,'

I definitely use 'drive' as more specific than anything to do with 'helm' which may be the role, the wheel, or the entire pedestal et al.

Why not just use "steer"


"Hop out of the way, I'll steer for a while!"
"Jim, can you take over the steeering while I go and put the kettle on"
...