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Old 21-09-2020, 17:20   #1
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Whats it take to de-mast

Hey all,

I was watching netflix Adrift, its based off a true story, but I know they take artistic license, for example the man appears to die from a infection from his broken leg in the movie, but later it says he went overboard, there is also video at the end of the actual boat and it does appear to have lost her masts.



The question is this, there is a scene where the ketch is in some big water, the boat encounters a rather dramatic wave, rolls and the masts come off.

I know if you go into some major wind flying too much sail you got you can de-mast yourself, Ive flipped my share of dinghys pushing them to their edge, been in some weather with larger boats, but the question I have is what about rolling a documentable size boat, if you say had just a heavily reefed main, or just a trisail, or even if you were just sticks, and caught that major wave, will the mast likely still be there?
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Old 21-09-2020, 17:33   #2
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

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Originally Posted by FastTrout View Post
............ but the question I have is what about rolling a documentable size boat, if you say had just a heavily reefed main, or just a trisail, or even if you were just sticks, and caught that major wave, will the mast likely still be there?
If simply knocked down, there is very good chance the mast will survive - not guaranteed though.

If capsized and rolled 180+ degrees, the odds decrease quickly and is dependant on the design and integrity of the mast and standing rigging. Seriously beefed up rigging helps a lot.

If pitchpoled, all bets are off.
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Old 21-09-2020, 18:09   #3
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

Based on true story it was a cat4 hurricane, you shouldn't be out in that at all.

Btw, the guy went overboard in the storm, and him being on the boat afterwards was just the girl's hallucination to help her through her troubles. She admitted, she only started mourn after she was in Hawai, safe.
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Old 21-09-2020, 18:17   #4
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

Wind/Wave action determines the roll. Slower the roll, less likely to lose the mast. Faster roll and the water pressure is just too great. I believe all the boats who rolled during the Queens Birthday Storm were de-masted, one actually had the mast bent around the boat, sticking back up opposite side like a corkscrew (huge waves 80ft+ fast rolling)
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Old 21-09-2020, 19:07   #5
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

Pitchpole?
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Old 21-09-2020, 19:13   #6
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

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Originally Posted by FastTrout View Post
Pitchpole?
Surfing down the face of a wave, stuffing the bow underwater and the stern comes over the top.
Alternatively, if the trough is the right length compared to the vessel, following wave can drive the bow into the next wave while lifting the stern, either way it's flipping end over end on the long axis.
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Old 21-09-2020, 20:08   #7
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

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Originally Posted by S/V Adeline View Post
Surfing down the face of a wave, stuffing the bow underwater and the stern comes over the top.
Alternatively, if the trough is the right length compared to the vessel, following wave can drive the bow into the next wave while lifting the stern, either way it's flipping end over end on the long axis.

Ooof

thanks for the description!
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Old 21-09-2020, 20:20   #8
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

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Originally Posted by S/V Adeline View Post
Wind/Wave action determines the roll. Slower the roll, less likely to lose the mast. Faster roll and the water pressure is just too great. I believe all the boats who rolled during the Queens Birthday Storm were de-masted, one actually had the mast bent around the boat, sticking back up opposite side like a corkscrew (huge waves 80ft+ fast rolling)
calling bs on any kind of stick bending that far. source?
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Old 21-09-2020, 20:59   #9
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

A tornado took the mast off my Catalina 27 and she never rolled. The mast was hit by debris, bending it and it fell over the side. Luckily I wasn't on it at the time!

I enjoyed watching Adrift.

Thx-Ace
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Old 21-09-2020, 23:03   #10
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastTrout View Post
Hey all,



I was watching netflix Adrift, its based off a true story, but I know they take artistic license, for example the man appears to die from a infection from his broken leg in the movie, but later it says he went overboard, there is also video at the end of the actual boat and it does appear to have lost her masts.







The question is this, there is a scene where the ketch is in some big water, the boat encounters a rather dramatic wave, rolls and the masts come off.



I know if you go into some major wind flying too much sail you got you can de-mast yourself, Ive flipped my share of dinghys pushing them to their edge, been in some weather with larger boats, but the question I have is what about rolling a documentable size boat, if you say had just a heavily reefed main, or just a trisail, or even if you were just sticks, and caught that major wave, will the mast likely still be there?


Geez, a spoiler alert would have been good.

Anyway, regarding what it takes to remove a mast...

Donít forget old standing rigging with corroded fittings can be enough for a mast to fall off without rolling.

A friend lost his mast in 15 knots of wind this way. Rigging looked fine. Only it wasnít.
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Old 22-09-2020, 03:47   #11
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

Some strongly built boats can roll 360 degrees and still keep the mast attached.

Others are dismasted.

So it depends on lots of things.

Btw, in this link you can see the actual boat that Tami Oldham sailed back on after her fiance was lost at sea.

She didn't have a watch so lined up on the correct latitude and hung a left for Hawaii just like in the movie.

https://rnli.org/magazine/magazine-f...ldham-ashcraft

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/new...ectid=12046467

The book is worth reading also.

https://www.amazon.com/Red-Sky-Mourn.../dp/0786867914

Nice scene below from the movie of two nice sailboat sailing along in good wind.

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Old 22-09-2020, 04:02   #12
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

i seriously doubt if any boat will roll 360 and keep a mast in

a 90 deg knock down, ok : should not lose the stick (unless some gear is not up to spex), but full 360, just too much pressure through the water. certainly never heard of it happening (although somebody is bound to pop up with some case somewhere...)

remember, it's not going to be a gentle roll in the hay when you go through the full turn !

cheers,
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Old 22-09-2020, 05:19   #13
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

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calling bs on any kind of stick bending that far. source?
There are at least two documentaries on said storm available free on YouTube. About 1.5hr in length. I believe "Pacific Rescue" details the crew description and subsequent damages caused be the mast during the 30-40 hr wait for the 3 day storm to weaken enough for rescue attempts.
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Old 22-09-2020, 05:56   #14
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

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Originally Posted by chrisr View Post
i seriously doubt if any boat will roll 360 and keep a mast in

a 90 deg knock down, ok : should not lose the stick (unless some gear is not up to spex), but full 360, just too much pressure through the water. certainly never heard of it happening (although somebody is bound to pop up with some case somewhere...)

remember, it's not going to be a gentle roll in the hay when you go through the full turn !

cheers,
I believe the SV Mistral (Westsail 32 portrayed by SV Satari in the movie Perfect Storm) rolled about 12hrs prior to the unauthorized Mayday call made by the passengers (first trip, no experience, just terrified as expected). Despite what Hollywood depicted, the Mistral was found grounded two weeks later, with only minor damage from the grounding. Various articles available on the internet, search term *Mistral - Perfect Storm*
If memory serves, one vessel in the Fastnet storm rolled twice, rig survived the first roll, but not the second. From most reports, a 360 roll typically removes the mast, but there have been documented exceptions. Again, documentaries available on YouTube. Survivor and Rescuer accounts.
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Old 22-09-2020, 06:27   #15
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Re: Whats it take to de-mast

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisr View Post
i seriously doubt if any boat will roll 360 and keep a mast in

a 90 deg knock down, ok : should not lose the stick (unless some gear is not up to spex), but full 360, just too much pressure through the water. certainly never heard of it happening (although somebody is bound to pop up with some case somewhere...)

remember, it's not going to be a gentle roll in the hay when you go through the full turn !

cheers,
Many boats have rolled 360 degrees and kept their masts.

One was the Contessa 32 Assent but not during the Fastnet Race. (only a couple knockdowns during the race) It happened later when the 85 year old owner was cruising it.

His son and friends were sailing it during the Fastnet Race.
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