WE'RE RACING!!!!!!

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I certainly don't try to force an advantageous position over another boat to force them into a less desirable position (a huge part of racing and source of much of the anger towards racers). Generally prefer they simply maintain a decent distance away so we can enjoy our day on the water without the pressure.

A huge part of some racing - around the cans f'rinstance, but not really in long-distance ocean racing. There, for the most part they're out of sight of their competitors, so it's just them against the elements to get somewhere in the best time they can manage - which is pretty much what cruising is. Except for the two posters who are apparently happy to get to bare steerageway, and it doesn't matter how much the flappy-bits are flapping.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

A certain poster is claiming it's OK because they decided everyone is racing.

If that's how you've interpreted what I've written, then you've missed my point entirely.

[Normanskier]

Originally Posted by pete c

That was the cry from the sailboat we had an encounter with this afternoon.

This was the situation. We were just putting along on a starboard tack with about half the jib out, enjoying one of the last nice days on LI sound of the year. On a pretty much collision course was what I soon found out, was a racing sailboat....on a port tack.

I was taught that with a pair of sailboats under sail in such a situation, the rules are pretty clear. The starboard tack boat has the right of way. It is the port tack boat who is obliged to alter course.

As we got within earshot, we could hear the other boat yelling something. My buddy yelled back "STARBOARD TACK". The other skipper then eased off the wind a bit to our lee side and yelled "WE'RE RACING" as he passed.

Good for you *******. Sorry, I did not get the memo.

Now I do realize that the rules are not carved in granite and there is a such thing as common courtesy. If you look ahead and see a group of sailboats who are obviously in the heat of battle, the right thing to do is put your starboard tack privilege card back in your pocket and do your best to not interrupt a race.

But it was in no way apparent that this guy was in a race. He wasn't flying a large "we're racing" pennant. He was just another boat out there in a fairly busy area, just outside the entrance to Milford Harbor.

Perhaps if I was a bit more observant I might have observed a boat under full canvas with all its rail meat doing what it could to squeeze out another tenth of a knot, but like I said, there's all sorts of traffic out there and the wind was being a little fickle, varying what seemed to be 15-20 degrees regularly. It had just varied a bit when this guy was maybe a quarter mile away, so I did make a slight course adjustment. So maybe he took that as me being a clueless douchebag.

I'll plead guilty to a level of cluelessness, but not the douchebaggery charge....well, not in this instance.

So, did I do something wrong? Does my "racing detector" need fine tuning?

I can understand someone being frustrated in such a situation, but do the right thing and just mumble a few obscenities under your breath. Don't yell at the boat who had the right of way.

I've raced on Long Island Sound for years. From the New York side, Centerport. Our sailing instructions advised that we must fly the N flag on our back stay to indicate that we were racing. Most of the locals were aware of this.

[GBR134]

Originally Posted by Benz

You were right to stand on--racers have to follow the same rules as everyone else, and if they think they should be given special privileges because they're racing, they're just vainglorious idiots who need to figure life out.
As a professional schooner captain operating on the busy, busy Narraganssett Bay, I avoided obvious racing fleets just because they usually behave pretty erratically, but if I found myself among a race, the racers learned early on that I was going to follow the Colregs and expected them to do the same. There was no need for yelling--I was equipped with a pretty loud horn.

Hmm - you are completely right of course but your unflattering description of all racers doesn’t encourage me to like you.

[boat driver]

The thread is a collection of stories of the misconception of many sailboat racers-there is room for everyone- but when yacht clubs pass race courses through main ship channels the similar "Im a sailboat" or "I'm racing" happens, and when one looks down from a bridge wing and suggests "really?" it is all somewhat funny-
How many famous pictures depicting a spinnaker in the anchor are out there?

[boat driver]

Originally Posted by Normanskier

I've raced on Long Island Sound for years. From the New York side, Centerport. Our sailing instructions advised that we must fly the N flag on our back stay to indicate that we were racing. Most of the locals were aware of this.

Hello, that is a local thing- If you are from Mystic does that apply also? It identifies your race participants for RC fleet responsibility, but it does not effect COLREGS.

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Actually, he shouldn't be yelling but sounding the horn signals or radio-ing to agree to a crossing if he would like to deviate from a standard crossing.

When a 1/4 mile apart, a simple, "hey there vessel XYZ, any chance I could have you bear off 20 deg. I realize, under normal circumstances I should but I'm racing and it would help me out not having to."

Done in a kind voice, I'm betting 99.9% of boats would oblige and the feelings toward sailboat racing would be much more positive.

To my way of thinking, that is the best answer so far!

Al, S/V Finlandia

[RossD]

Originally Posted by fxykty

You do realise there’s no such thing as “right of way”? You were in no way the privileged boat that didn’t have to change course - your requirement under the COLREGS is to maintain your course while the other boat is required to alter course to avoid collision. If the other boat wasn’t doing enough to avoid collision then it would have been your responsibility to alter course to avoid the collision. No right of way there at all - language matters. None of this is to say that you didn’t do the correct thing in your situation.

Regarding courtesy, sure, if you want to. But if it’s not obvious that a boat is racing then you become the idiot not following the COLREGs. I like best the response posted above: “We’re not!”

This is exactly so. Whether in a boat or a vehicle or whatever. Last clear chance still applies if an accident occurs. Regardless of who has the ROW.

However, it's extremely frustrating when folks do not understand (or bother to learn) the rules of the road etc. I am both a sailor and owner of so called "stink boxes". Arrogant, entitled folks, take the ROW in many cases, regardless of the rules. It's something that can ruin your day, or worse, and I know exactly how the OP feels.

[JonJG]

My favourite response was from a skipper of an old ketch who on planning to go through the Solent in the middle of Cowes week. He was ready. Any shout to get out of the racers way was responded to with a loud one word shout back “STEEL”.
The plastic boats learnt to avoid him.
Funny, but hey as a racer you just have to avoid obstacles, be they sandbanks, big ships in narrow channels or other yachts going about their business.
At that time I cruised and raced so was on both sides of the argument. Racing is no excuse for being a jerk!

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I think if everyone that sails had raced in the past there wouldn't be a problem with just letting the racers do their thing.

Many racers are so involved in the race there is little room for anything else especially if racing one design.

Your boat is perfectly trimmed out and setup for the conditions yet another boat is moving ahead.

This is a problem and Skippers and crew will usually be working like mad to figure out what the problem is.....

Nice pre-race and race of one design monohulls:

I've done a lot of racing in the past. If there is something obvious like a bunched up fleet, I'll try not to interfere. In the OP's case of a lone boat screaming at me they're racing when slight course correction early results in essentially no loss to them, screw them!

If they're on their own, they're probably on a flyer which is going to result in a huge gain or loss where maneuvering around me is meaningless.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thomm225

It's relevant to a cruiser because the racers can be "idiots" with cruisers also should a cruiser "stray" into the middle of a race that is.

It's simply not smart to get involved with racers if it can be avoided unless you are just wanting an argument or fight

The racers are already in competition mode

Someone my have "upped" them at the starting line (forced them into the wind and possibly causing them to have to tack off) and they may still be PO'd about it and spoiling for a fight.

Why would a cruiser or day sailor want to get involved in that because they know the rules.

Racers have to know the rules but they also aren't above bending them if they can get away with it

If there are 10 identical boats all criss-crossing, it's pretty obvious and I would generally just stay away. Far different from the OP's individual boat having a race on his own.

But I've ran into a similar situation where they are blocking the entire channel. At that point, I pick a course as best I can via the colregs and safety, race be damned. If they don't want other boats messing up their race, hold it away from channels.

Not my problem if they have aggression problems during a friendly beer can race. We aren't talking about the america's cup and millions on the line.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

A huge part of some racing - around the cans f'rinstance, but not really in long-distance ocean racing. There, for the most part they're out of sight of their competitors, so it's just them against the elements to get somewhere in the best time they can manage - which is pretty much what cruising is. Except for the two posters who are apparently happy to get to bare steerageway, and it doesn't matter how much the flappy-bits are flapping.



If that's how you've interpreted what I've written, then you've missed my point entirely.

If I meet a single boat on open waters well away from anyone else and you feel the need to run a collision course until the last second...you are purposely instigating. That would mean you likely had 10-15min to figure out my course and try and contact me via VHF if you thought it may be an issue. You are therefore simply a jerk.

Please clarify if you think I missed your point because you didn't appear to make it very well.

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Really?!?
You don't tune your sails? You don't try to balance your course to maximize your SMG? You don't plan your tacks to make the most efficient advance to windward?
You're the only one, then.

NO. He is not the only one. I believe that there are a lot of us out there that just sail for the fun of sailing.
Yes, sometimes I am in more of a hurry and pay more attention to sail trim, etc. but most of the time I’m just out there on a lazy sail even if I’m on a coastal trip from the Chesapeake to Florida.

Al, S/V Finlandia

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by GBR134

Hmm - you are completely right of course but your unflattering description of all racers doesn’t encourage me to like you.

Colregs aren't a popularity contest. Unfortunately, there are a large enough contingent of racers, that it's safest to assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised if they aren't.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Ummm...that's the point. Much of racing is built around aggressively applying right of way. I said I'm not racing. A certain poster is claiming it's OK because they decided everyone is racing.

By it's nature, racing is aggressive, racers use the rules to their advantage. But racing doesn't exempt the racer from honoring COLREG. Racers, cruisers and commercial all share the same waterway and must honor the rules or there will be a whole lot of mayhem.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Joli

By it's nature, racing is aggressive, racers use the rules to their advantage. But racing doesn't exempt the racer from honoring COLREG. Racers, cruisers and commercial all share the same waterway and must honor the rules or there will be a whole lot of mayhem.

I think the problem is far too many racers take that aggression out on cruisers because they have decided "all sailors are secretly racing", hence a lot of people not happy with racers. They often say it as a joke but from what I've seen, many really believe it.

Think of it akin to someone drag racing on the street in front of your house and then getting mad at you when you tool along at the 30mph speed limit. Sure drag racing is very aggressive and at the track on a closed course, fine but in no way justifies their behavior when out with people not racing.