WE'RE RACING!!!!!!

[danstanford]

First, let me recognize as correct those who have said racing is no excuse for not following Colregs, demanding room, or yelling at those in their way who are not racing. There needs to be yelling in racing as that is the only way to hear each other across the water but that is no reason to yell at an innocent bystander.

To those looking for racers to go out of their way to make you fell comfortable in terms of sea room, I think you are going to have to get comfortable with racing room if you are going to get onto the race course. If I am racing and trying to gain fractions of a degree of angle by tracking and taking wind shifts while looking for pressure, I am not going to tack a 1/4 mile away to make you comfortable. I won't ask you to divert from your course unless I am the stand on vessel. I will probably yell that I see you and that I will be coming close if that is the course I need to take.

If you think about it, yelling out to you is my only tool to say that I recognize your position and track and that I will avoid you as I need to, but if I am tacking on shifts I might need to tack seemingly out of nowhere and my only responsibility to you in that situation is to follow the Colregs and to avoid a collision.

If I am out for a cruise or on my way to or from a race course you can expect me to give you comfortable room so that I don't need to yell or radio my intent.

[rslifkin]

If we're talking beer can racing where it's pretty obvious what's going on, I think most of us would avoid the course. Partly for courtesy, and partly because it's easier to not get into something that crowded. But on a distance race, it's often not obvious that a boat is racing and not just sailing somewhere. And you'll often only be encountering 1 boat at a time. So that's a bit different.

[Be Free]

Originally Posted by danstanford

First, let me recognize as correct those who have said racing is no excuse for not following Colregs, demanding room, or yelling at those in their way who are not racing. There needs to be yelling in racing as that is the only way to hear each other across the water but that is no reason to yell at an innocent bystander.

To those looking for racers to go out of their way to make you fell comfortable in terms of sea room, I think you are going to have to get comfortable with racing room if you are going to get onto the race course. If I am racing and trying to gain fractions of a degree of angle by tracking and taking wind shifts while looking for pressure, I am not going to tack a 1/4 mile away to make you comfortable. I won't ask you to divert from your course unless I am the stand on vessel. I will probably yell that I see you and that I will be coming close if that is the course I need to take.

If you think about it, yelling out to you is my only tool to say that I recognize your position and track and that I will avoid you as I need to, but if I am tacking on shifts I might need to tack seemingly out of nowhere and my only responsibility to you in that situation is to follow the Colregs and to avoid a collision.

If I am out for a cruise or on my way to or from a race course you can expect me to give you comfortable room so that I don't need to yell or radio my intent.

I agree with you almost completely and I commend you for your attitude and behavior. I don't think we would ever have a conflict were we to meet racing or cruising. My only quibble is "....I think you are going to have to get comfortable with racing room if you are going to get onto the race course."

Even if I were to accept the proposition that non-racers should change their expectations when they are on a race course we are still left with a nagging problem.

With very few exceptions the "race course" is an imaginary construct that even the racers have to have described to them in great detail. Even those participating in the race would have no idea where the course was if they were not told. The non-racer does not know where the race committee has drawn their imaginary lines on the water or even that the lines have been drawn at all and thus has no reason to change their comfort level re: passing distance.

I would certainly not intentionally sail into a group of boats that appeared to be racing and you have already said that you would not intentionally crowd a non-racing boat. I believe that both of us are in agreement that if we were to find ourselves inadvertently or unintentionally in such a position that each of us would follow the COLREGS and not cause the other undue distress.

Back to the original point: the original poster described a situation where he felt that a racer was crowding him and insisting on special rights that his port tack did not avail him of. Whether the racer was in fact expecting the OP to change course is unknowable. What we do know is that the OP was uncomfortable with the actions of the racer and that the racer did eventually change course. The racer would not have changed course unless he was on a collision course with the OP or it was tactically advantageous to him. Personally, I suspect the former.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

I'd expect close passing in races - Goboatie asserts that it is common practice among the non-racing boaters in the Med, to pass half a boat length in front of other boats out in open water.

Yeah he does but he also has almost 21,400 posts which means more marina time than actual sailing time.....

Whereas the racer guy has a bit over 5,000 posts and they joined at about the same time.