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Old 26-05-2021, 21:11   #31
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

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Originally Posted by NevilleCat View Post
Do they still make those rope cutters that attach ahead of the prop?
"The Stripper" or something. Can they attach to a sail drive?
Seems like they could be an investment.
So would making sure everything is well secured before crossing.
Better still, don't cross when its like that.
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Old 26-05-2021, 21:15   #32
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

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There's plenty of room to turn in those entrance channels, especially for a cat. Full port rudder, stb motor full forward, port motor 2/3 reverse, you turn 180 degrees in no time.
Even on ours with single screw and no thruster if if we go full lock to starb and half way through turn give her some reverse on the same lock, the bum will walk around almost in her own length.
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Old 26-05-2021, 21:22   #33
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

As a local I confirm the bar can be quite daunting on occasion...........there is a permanent bar across the breakwater entrance that can have a heavy break in big sea conditions.........but when benign the local trawler fleet will directly cross over that bar at high tide.....usually when the waves 'stand up' but not breaking.....the safest approach............is to approach parralel to the beach from the north for 600 metres ....and 'clip' the end of the northern breakwater ....turn into the river.....and head to a position about 50 m down the southern breakwater.......if a wave wants you to surf.......go into reverse enough to let the wave go under the vessel........when departing 'clip' the northern breakwater end.........and run parralel the beach north for 600 m.......... just saying......works for me.....
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Old 26-05-2021, 22:16   #34
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

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As a local I confirm the bar can be quite daunting on occasion...........there is a permanent bar across the breakwater entrance that can have a heavy break in big sea conditions.........but when benign the local trawler fleet will directly cross over that bar at high tide.....usually when the waves 'stand up' but not breaking.....the safest approach............is to approach parralel to the beach from the north for 600 metres ....and 'clip' the end of the northern breakwater ....turn into the river.....and head to a position about 50 m down the southern breakwater.......if a wave wants you to surf.......go into reverse enough to let the wave go under the vessel........when departing 'clip' the northern breakwater end.........and run parralel the beach north for 600 m.......... just saying......works for me.....

I'm not a local but that is the route I use when I go there. It can be a bit dis-concerting to approach from the Nth effectively beam-on but better than being out further in the lifting swell.

The surf-cams which cover all the main river bars in NSW and some in QLD are a great resource for decision making. White breakers clearly show up through the sometimes hazy images and you have to have patience to allow the camera to pan across its range a couple of times, but much better than getting out to the mouth and finding it too nasty to go on. Stay ashore/anchor and have another coffee.
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Old 27-05-2021, 12:15   #35
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

Likely some goo in the tanks given the timing. It does show impressive stability beam on, but most capsizes, cat and mono are from pitchpoling after surfing down x large waves. Forward momentum and tripping are needed.
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Old 28-05-2021, 02:32   #36
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

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Am also curious about their not having a sail up. Cats are so stable, I can see why people might not, but we have always had sails up for bar crossings, even if we're motor sailing, and it is exactly because if your motor quits, what on earth do you do for motive power? It is in the same category as not motoring along a lee shore with the mainsail cover on. The motor may never quit, but is it a sensible risk to take?

Ann
It's actually quite rare to see sailboats crossing bars with their sails up. Not saying it's a bad idea, but most seem to have faith in their engines.
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Old 28-05-2021, 02:40   #37
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

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Likely some goo in the tanks given the timing. It does show impressive stability beam on, but most capsizes, cat and mono are from pitchpoling after surfing down x large waves. Forward momentum and tripping are needed.
Do you have some reference for this?
I find it hard to believe...mono, sure; surf, broach, roll... but a cat?
Surely it has been decades since cats, by design, had insufficient buoyancy in the bows? Cats can surf all day under control and surely everyone knows how to slow them down if they want to sleep?
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Old 28-05-2021, 03:49   #38
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

Has been an interesting thread, many good thoughts and practices expressed. I personally don’t have sails up for bar crossings because I feel it adds complexity should things begin to go wrong.
Currently we close all doors and hatches, wear life jackets, and clip on for crossings. Now I will ensure sheets and halyards are well stowed. An extra arrow in my quiver of knowledge.
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Old 28-05-2021, 15:49   #39
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

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Has been an interesting thread, many good thoughts and practices expressed. I personally don’t have sails up for bar crossings because I feel it adds complexity should things begin to go wrong.
Currently we close all doors and hatches, wear life jackets, and clip on for crossings. Now I will ensure sheets and halyards are well stowed. An extra arrow in my quiver of knowledge.
A healthy fear of bars also helps. Scarier when entering as you can't necessarily tell if waves are breaking.

Reading some of Captain Kyle's recent posts shows that he was aware of the dangers and knowledgeable about bar crossings. I wonder whether wave height increased shortly prior to the incident?
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Old 28-05-2021, 18:35   #40
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

Here is the complete footage of the incident taken by the surfcam at the entrance of the Tweed River bar.

https://www.swellnet.com/news/reels/...-the-tweed-bar
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Old 28-05-2021, 19:11   #41
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

he didnt have enough speed for that first breaker. Presume because out of 1 engine at that time, stbd gone. Alternatively could position better for the breaker by turning towards bar. Seas not that horrible.
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Old 28-05-2021, 19:23   #42
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

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Here is the complete footage of the incident taken by the surfcam at the entrance of the Tweed River bar.

https://www.swellnet.com/news/reels/...-the-tweed-bar
It would be really interesting to have the skipper do a voice over to that footage explaining what was going on at each point.
Lucky he got washed back between the rock walls...no attempt to get sailing once he lost power, guess steering was disabled by then.
Looks like it could have been worth dropping anchor once they washed in out of the swell rather than drift uncontrollably between the sharp bits. Never done that crossing, maybe it's wider than it looks.
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Old 28-05-2021, 19:31   #43
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

Kind of hard for me to tell about the seas. We would not have attempted a crossing then, but it may be different for cats. However, I'd guess them at 3 m., anyway, by looking at their height compared to that of the Begonia.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I found that footage from the web-cam at the bar to be very moving. Lucky the wind wasn't up enough to flip it when it went aloft.

What a scary, scary event for them. Hope it didn't break its bulkheads landing.

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Old 28-05-2021, 21:52   #44
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

hey, i think i've worked out why 'Begonia' tried to get out of tweed

he's talked to these tweed river trawler guys



'how's the bar looking ?'
'oh, about average...we're heading out in a minute'
'ok'



cheers,
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Old 28-05-2021, 22:53   #45
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Re: Tweed Heads, Australia bar

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Seas not that horrible.
Yeah, piece of cake. I measured the waves at just 25mm. On my phone.
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