Tried out a bit of sailing upwind,

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Brian, just a thought: you have mentioned planning sailing clear around the Australian continent as your goal. If this is true, there will likely be long stretches where you will need to go to windward, slamming or not, so please do start some serious efforts towards learning how to do so effectively.

And getting used to using the mainsail is crucial to that goal.

"nuff said.

Jim

So you have suddenly become an expert in driving Cats now,
If you knew any thing about it, Cats dont require a main sail to sail,
Except up wind,
I think my sail makers knowledge far exceeds yours in relation to Cat sailing,,
A Genoa is all thats needed,
Plus Im not interested in any comments you may make,

Nuff Said,

[Jim Cate]

Plus Im not interested in any comments you may make,

Oh, OK.

Jim

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Mr B

So you have suddenly become an expert in driving Cats now,

If you knew any thing about it, Cats dont require a main sail to sail,

Except up wind,

I think my sail makers knowledge far exceeds yours in relation to Cat sailing,,

A Genoa is all thats needed,

Plus Im not interested in any comments you may make,



Nuff Said,

Are you planning on sailing downwind around the continent?

Cats are just like any other boat, sail balance makes for easier/faster passages.

A barge will sail downwind with a tarp on a stick.

[Davy J]

So you have suddenly become an expert in driving Cats now,
If you knew any thing about it, Cats dont require a main sail to sail,
Except up wind,

Well, that was quite rude, .......... Guess you don't want any help after all.
Good day.............

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Are you planning on sailing downwind around the continent?

Cats are just like any other boat, sail balance makes for easier/faster passages.

A barge will sail downwind with a tarp on a stick.

Yep, Australia is an Island, Just a very large one,
I do have a barge with a tarp on a stick,

[Idlegreg]

Originally Posted by Mr B

.......
Should I have the clew of the Genoa further back or further forward when Im travelling upwind,
Thanks, ,

I have not read through thread so maybe this is covered but in general you could think of moving the genoa car so that the line of the sheet points more towards the front bit of the genoa where it is luffing (that is to say flopping back towards the mast instead of maintaining the nice curve of the sail).


So if the luffing happens at the top of the sail as in pic 2 you need the sheet (between block on the deck and the clew of the sail) to point up towards the luffing part. To acheive this move the deck lead block forward.


If the luffing was at the bottom of the sail then you need the sheet lead pointing down, more towards the lower part of the sail so move the car back.




Having said that and before being too depressed about your progress remember that some boats don't sail upwind at all well with just the Genoa - some do but many design will make very poor upwind progress under just Genoa (and also maybe under just main). If you get both sails up (reefed if required) and get the interaction between them right then the boat will come alive upwind.


Have fun


Greg

[Idlegreg]

Oh I see now that my point about the main has been covered and already turned into an argument :-(


But yes for close upwind work to be fun and fast you probably need both sails - though an alternative is never try to sail that close to the wind - my 1950s monohull won't sail very close to the wind whatever sails I have up but I still enjoy myself.

[wingssail]

The sail plan was designed for both the main and the headsail and almost all boats will benefit from using both together so I encourage you to get experienced with the mainsail and put it up, always. Yes it is more work, but sailing has been work for a couple of thousand years; that is part of the whole thing, work. When you have it all working right it is a joy.

It looks to me like your genoa is not all the way in. Finding the right angle to the wind for best upwind performance takes to trial and error on any boat but you can sheet that sail in to about 1 foot off the shrouds then head up or down until the tell tales fly and see what it feels like (with the main also up). Trimming in or out a little and sailing to the tell tails and pretty soon you will get the feel of what is best. Other people here will give you tips about the exact setting of the jib car to get the tell tails to fly evenly.

As far as your tacking angle, you can get that precisely from your chart plotter. If it is showing your path you can sail on one tack, then tack and sail on the other, and the lines on the chart plotter will show you exactly what your courses were (this will be hugely affected by tidal current). If you have "measure" function you can trace the lines and use the plotter to tell you the actual course over ground. Subtract the two and you have your tacking angle. Half of that is your true angle to the wind.

You can do the same with your compass but then it will be inaccurate because of any leeway or tidal current.

Sailing is an interesting way to travel, but it is also a sport, actually an athletic activity. Get into it and get the satisfaction of doing it well and you will also travel faster. Going upwind is a thing of beauty, what magic to use the force of the wind to go into it without using the engines!

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Mr B

S...Cats dont require a main sail to sail,
Except up wind...

No cats don't require a mainsail to sail. In fact any boat will "sail" with any old thing put up, even a table cloth.

But it won't sail well.

Put up both sails, do the work to get them sorted out the best way possible, and enjoy the satisfaction of doing something really well.

[PTeinert02]

carstenb thanks for the video link. Much appreciated. Learning as we go.

[barnakiel]

Try different positions and look up the speedo.


In light conditions, if the sail is too open, you lose speed.
If it is too closed, you stall.


On the upper images, the more closed position looks more like what I have it on our boat in similar conditions.


Mind as the boat accelerates and deccelerates, you will be playing the sheet too, especially in light winds and on a responsive boat.



b.

[Nicholson58]

There is more here than we can likely explain. I strongly suggest you bring someone knowledgeable, possibly a sailmaker aboard. A half day of competent first hand assistance will put you miles ahead.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Mr B

So you have suddenly become an expert in driving Cats now,
If you knew any thing about it, Cats dont require a main sail to sail,
Except up wind,
I think my sail makers knowledge far exceeds yours in relation to Cat sailing,,
A Genoa is all thats needed,
Plus Im not interested in any comments you may make,

Nuff Said,

No need to be so touchy. You just snubbed a very experienced cruiser who was trying to help you to learn, which is what you need more than anything as you are sailing in a rather demanding and potentially dangerous environment. You may have a difficult time getting the kind of advice you actually need. Sometimes the advice you need is not the advice you want. That's too bad.



The blanket statement that cats don't need a mainsail except to windward is very revealing. And apparently you don't want to read any comments that point out the folly of it, and get snippy when anyone tries to help. Are you here to learn, or to argue with people who actually know, generally, what they are talking about?

[Andrew-Calliope]

As someone has pointed out, your mainsail isn't hoisted. You'll never manage beating into wind properly with only a headsail.

Also, as someone has pointed out, your genoa needs to be sheeted in tightly. If you're managing to keep it filled in that position you must be well off the wind.

Probably others have said this as well. Try getting lessons.

[marcvilleneuve]

Two recommendations from a racer:
1. Listen to your telltales; they speak
2. In doubt, don’t hesitate to move your traveler up or down at the ends. Then you will FEEL what works and what doesn’t

Moving a traveller is free anyway and only temporary as it should be used if the sailing conditions change...and they always change.

Marc
Predictable, C&C 29 MkII