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Old 01-10-2019, 23:27   #1
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tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

Hi Folks,

I was offered a 25t, 15m, steel ketch with pilot house. Pretty much what I am interested in. but it has a tiller !? (inboard helm is with wheel)

The enginieer builder says it was a safety thing for him (simple backup system)
As I want to steer outside in mild climate, I was thinkg about converting to a wheel.

Or should I keep the tiller? is it a pro or a con?

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ralph
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:20   #2
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

Its not a deciding factor
Much much more to a boat buying decision than this item.
FWIW a tiller can be folded out of the way and clear a cockpit of obstruction.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:54   #3
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

Depends on whether the rudder is balanced. My keel hung rudder can be tiller steered in emergencies, but it gets tiring very quickly, and my boat is 10 tons lighter.

Personally, I prefer a tiller, so if it is balanced well enough it would not be a problem for me. And if not... well, there are so many ways for converting from tiller to wheel steering, it wouldnt put me off.

One boat I know uses an old windvane drum on a wheel pedestal with a length of dyneema and a few blocks in the cockpit, with the line connected directly to the stub of the original tiller. Works well and has done so for many years.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:57   #4
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

If the rudder is nicely balanced, and the lines/rams....whatever, from the inside helm dont cause drag, Id prefer to sail with a tiller myself.
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:48   #5
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

It seems most sailors here prefer a tiller, especially on smaller boats like that
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:31   #6
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
It seems most sailors here prefer a tiller, especially on smaller boats like that
Ummm... if 25 tons and 15 meters is small... then my boat is tiny.
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:38   #7
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

Sorry my bad
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:48   #8
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

It came to my mind that I might like 20m and 40t better ... but ... with a tiller?
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:49   #9
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

Sounds to me like the primary station is in the wheel house, with the tiller being a back up in case of emergency, which is I think a very intelligent thing to have.
Id just guess that the boat is primarily a motosailer, and meant to be often motored.
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:59   #10
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

well... 25t, 100m sail, 15x4m, Ketch, 120HP Engine. 1800 liter fuel.

The owner says it makes 6kn at BF3. I doubt that. but we will test it.

and yes... there will quite some motoring.
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:59   #11
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

I’ve see 3 44’ Steel boats with BOTH tellers and wheels. One I don’t know, one was a Caroff, and mine is a Pape and 20 tons.

The REASON for the tiller is simple, it is connected to a servo pendulum wind vane, which steers the boat without the hassle of the whole wheel drum thing.

In short it’s not an either/or thing. You can add a wheel if desired without removing the tiller.

On my boat I have modified the tiller so that the permanently mounted stub is long enough for the wind vane attachment point and then I have an extension whereby I can hand steer if desired.
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:01   #12
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

A tiller will give you much more feel for what a boat is doing especially with respect to weather or lee helm. Weather and lee helm is telling you something about your sailing.
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:28   #13
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

The boat has a windvane...
Is That the reason?
Wow... Would have never thought about that
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Old 02-10-2019, 09:40   #14
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

It sounds like what you are looking at is a motorsailer. MSs are a different breed of cat from a "pure" sailboat, and has different mechanical requirements. "Inside" steering is just fine in an MS since time spent "sailing" is a small proportion of time under way.

You will find that you CAN sail an MS, but not with any degree of efficacy, and the many benefits of tiller steering are masked in an MS by the boat's general sluggishness under sail.

As I said in a previous reply to you: Tell us - with precision - what you want a boat to do FOR you, and we will be able to give you sound guidance, You should probably also invest some time and money in absorbing the knowledge contained in books on yacht design, such as e.g. Skeene's Elements of Yacht Design by Francis Kinney

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Old 03-10-2019, 05:11   #15
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Re: tilller on a 25t second hand steel boat - convert to wheel?

Keep the tiller. Get to know the boat. Later, if you really want the wheel, install it. I suspect you'll keep the tiller.
"Steel Away" is an excellent book on steel boats, and if you don't already know how to weld, you'd better learn!
Good luck
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