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Old 08-09-2019, 19:54   #91
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Would it "work" to have enough charging outlets so that all night divers lights, cameras, and phones could be charged while someone is awake keeping an eye on it?

Would it "work" to have a hatch with a ladder out in the bow?

The boats in service were 40 yrs. old. Not of steel construction. Maybe charging should take place in a metal vault that could be closed on a fire, and starved for oxygen? How much would it cost? How much would it add to the costs of commercial dives? Remember, it is mostly pretty safe. Kinda makes you wonder what the legislators will make of it......

Ann

All good points.


If the casue is found to be battery related and should the court agree with you and find that the owner should have made provision given the known problems with lithium batteries then the limitation will not apply and the owner will be liable.
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Old 08-09-2019, 23:28   #92
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
Would it "work" to have enough charging outlets so that all night divers lights, cameras, and phones could be charged while someone is awake keeping an eye on it?

Would it "work" to have a hatch with a ladder out in the bow?

The boats in service were 40 yrs. old. Not of steel construction. Maybe charging should take place in a metal vault that could be closed on a fire, and starved for oxygen? How much would it cost? How much would it add to the costs of commercial dives? Remember, it is mostly pretty safe. Kinda makes you wonder what the legislators will make of it......

Ann
Good questions! These lithium ion batteries change the safety equation. Hopefully a safe answer will be found that is affordable. A small yacht version would be nice if it was a combination microwave oven, Faraday cage for electronics during lightning, and fireproof battery charger cage. (don't run that oven with the batteries, though!)

It has been pointed out more than once that this particular boat fleet has been operating safely for 40 years with no incidents. Capt Pat pointed out the problem of luck as a strategy, though, and it's a very good point...

Back in my college days, I played in a cover band that was a regular feature in an underground bar: you walked down a narrrow flight of stairs to a low-ceiling basement below a large building. One room had a bar and the other had a big dance floor and stage. The only exit/entrance was the one staircase. A hundred or so people would cram into the place to dance and drink all night, most staggering up the stairs, one my one, at closing time.
I have no idea how they avoided getting shut down by the fire marshall.
Nobody ever got hurt.
There was never a fire.
Luck was the strategy for decades.
That clean safety record told nothing of the real danger, though.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:12   #93
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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As a resident of the central California coast and someone who has done many dives from the Conception, I am shocked and heartbroken at the loss of life. Perhaps all of us on this forum can stop the speculation for the time being and simply remind ourselves That our shared passion for the ocean comes with a multitude of risks. While truth aquatics has an excellent safety record thereís always the possibility of failure or accident in any environment . If you believe in God, please say a prayer for the victims and their families. If not please put your hopes and thoughts out to the universe and keep your loved ones close. Take the time to inspect and renew the systems on your own boat that may have been overlooked for a while, especially electrical and fuel systems including propane gas. Fire blankets are one of the best tools we have for onboard fires on boats in addition to fire extinguishers. Keep them in your galley and engine spaces and remember that in a marine environment it is always prudent to be proactive, and not reactive.May the universe look out for and keep safe all those who are drawn to the sea.
Well said and no need for anything else to be said.
Thank You
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:36   #94
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

Beside a lack of egress, where was the fire suppression system?
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:55   #95
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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The top picture is definitely electric, or a strange propane one if itís gas.

I was probably 10 years old when I attended a demonstration about supplemental oxygen and flying, one of the demoís was someone smoking that exhaled O2 though a lit cigarette, it immediately burst into large flames that consumed it quickly.
Pure oxygen if there was any available will turn a small fire into something horrendous pretty much immediately, itís worse than throwing gasoline on a fire as O2 not only of course increases the flames, but also makes the fire burn very much hotter.
Of course being packed tightened like sardines makes it real tough to get out, sort of like a Commercial airplane Iím sure.

I took the course here at Jax NAS on ditching a helicopter many years ago, it was a cargo type helicopter mock up that they lowered into a pool and rolled it over, then everyone was to exit. Iím real comfortable in water so I sort of just sat back and watched, there wasnít but half a dozen of us in the trainer, but everyone trying for the door at the same time wasnít working out very well cause quite a few panicked, fear of drowning Iím sure.
I imagine that dive boat may have been similar, or maybe everyone was quickly overcome by smoke?
Awwww yes...... The Dunker...... I attended at NAS Pensacola 33 years ago and I still remember of those 4 dunks. 1 and 3 exit near me. 2 and 4 exit main cabin door! Haha Iíve been retired now 10 years ago.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:42   #96
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

answers to date- coroner says death was asphyxiation- not drowning or burned.
so they slept into death with no struggle. Thankfully.

The probable cause then is an enclosed fire- in bilge or as mentioned below galley (or cell phone charging table) and the fire was essentially smoldering below decks till it found oxygen- then exploded.
Experience besides mentioned tank/ diving gasses and equipment , is batteries that are getting age/overcharged can produce hydrogen excessive- and spread thru the bilge area- and then ignition source provided an immediate engulfed area.
So many factors and so quick that sometimes we must remember that boats are really safe in an hostile environment.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:42   #97
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Just heard on the radio, the transcript of the emergency call with the CG apparently implies the crew member in the water was reporting passengers were somehow locked in.

Not all crew survived I think, but apparently all five survivors were crew.
....uh, "blocked in?"...maybe? That voice comm was pretty scratchy...
I is my understanding nothing on those escape hatches or companionways lock below.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:56   #98
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

Yes that was in the first 24 hours, we now know how limited the escape routes were from below.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:59   #99
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Yes that was in the first 24 hours, we now know how limited the escape routes were from below.
My apologies for my "speculation". I re-read the suggestion to let it be...
So sad... I was just over at Santa Cruz Island a few weeks ago. Sure gives us all a wake up call to check our own safety systems and re-evaluate...

Fair winds...
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:05   #100
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

This has certainly made me think about my boat.


I routinely block the forward hatch with my dinghy ... I'm going to have to see if I can work out if it's possible to release/cut-away the dinghy from below.


After all, if a fire starts on my boat it will probably be near the companionway which is close to the stove, batteries, electrical, engine, fuel tanks etc. And with the dink on deck I don't have a second exit.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:19   #101
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Originally Posted by capeharj View Post
Beside a lack of egress, where was the fire suppression system?
The Conception's specifications included a "fixed CO2 engine room fire suppression systemĒ. Additionally, the boat carried numerous hand-held fire extinguishers.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:51   #102
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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The Conception's specifications included a "fixed CO2 engine room fire suppression systemĒ. Additionally, the boat carried numerous hand-held fire extinguishers.
Is the fixed system for the engine room only or is it throughout the boat? If the system was in the engine room only and not where the fire started it may not have been activated in time to do any good.
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:20   #103
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

the trouble with lithium batteries (including house banks) is that once they start burning, for whatever reason, NOTHING will put them out since the fuel and oxidizer are all in the same nifty little package
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:26   #104
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

Very toxic smoke

A small unit could be buried in a bucket of sand

for a big lot tossing into the ocean will make for a very impressive little show before sinking.

Better than melting a hole through the hull.

Start charging screen gadgets in the firebags standard in the RC world. Or at least metal ammo cases.
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:33   #105
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY View Post
1.Is the fixed system for the engine room only or is it throughout the boat?
2.If the system was in the engine room only and not where the fire started it may not have been activated in time to do any good.
1. Yes, engine room only. Automatic/fixed CO2 fire suppression isn't used in living spaces.
2. Indeed.
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