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Old 04-09-2019, 20:53   #46
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

Petrol for the outboard now seems a possible fuel for the explosion. Seems that this is the only volatile and flammable material normally carried... and 5 gallons, should it have leaked into the bilge, could cause a catastrophic and rapid fire.

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Old 04-09-2019, 20:59   #47
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Originally Posted by Cpt Pat View Post
Here is an ABC interview with a captain of a sister ship to Conception, Chris Connelly.

https://tinyurl.com/y6r8dwvg

It's raw video (very raw).

I really suggest watching it. The captain dispels a number of rumors - and describes the vessel well.

The accident seems even more mysterious to me after hearing his explanation.
It is definitely worth watching. Thanks for posting that.
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Old 04-09-2019, 21:40   #48
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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In that story, a captain of a sister ship mentions lithium batteries. That sounds plausible to me. High energy density lithiums (not LFPs) used in cell phones and laptops are a real and valid safety concern. Once ignited, these lithium battery fires are practically impossible to extinguish. Here's an example: https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...down-building/.
This^

I'd be more concerned with camera strobe, dive light, drone, underwater scooter batteries.

In Singapore there were 123 cases of apartment fires in the last 2 years started by faulty e-scooter (PMD) chargers/batteries that required the fire department. Most cases happened late at night, presumably from typical charging habits.
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Old 04-09-2019, 23:39   #49
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Petrol for the outboard now seems a possible fuel for the explosion. Seems that this is the only volatile and flammable material normally carried... and 5 gallons, should it have leaked into the bilge, could cause a catastrophic and rapid fire.

Jim

Don't know if that's what happened here, but gasoline (petrol) is almost as bad as propane, and for the same reasons -- the vapor is heavier than air, and forms an explosive fog in the bilges if spilled.


Which is why gasoline (petrol) should never be carried within the hull volume.
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Old 04-09-2019, 23:42   #50
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Originally Posted by fivecapes View Post
This^

I'd be more concerned with camera strobe, dive light, drone, underwater scooter batteries.

In Singapore there were 123 cases of apartment fires in the last 2 years started by faulty e-scooter (PMD) chargers/batteries that required the fire department. Most cases happened late at night, presumably from typical charging habits.

This is a risk many of us may not fully appreciate.


I had a professional photographer on board last summer when we went to Greenland, and I was surprised at all the precautions he took charging his drone batteries. I certainly had no idea that charging a relatively modest sized lithium battery created such a fire risk. He had special fireproof bags he kept them in while charging, and he never charged them if he was not in the same room with them. I'm starting to feel grateful.
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Old 05-09-2019, 00:07   #51
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Then don't. I know it's hard to resist but conjecture helps nobody.
Sorry, but I have to disagree.
Your expertise is welcome, but the discussion here has me re-thinking propane and drone batteries.
Thanks to all for that.
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Old 05-09-2019, 03:50   #52
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

We should also keep in mind that there is a real possibility that we will never know the exact cause. When a fire, especially one on a boat, is that intense, it is possible that any evidence will be completely destroyed.

There have been two boat fires at my one marina, and in the one case, they suspected it was an electrical oil heater that tipped over, but they said they had no way to prove it as the boat was burned to the water line and everything inside was completely destroyed.

Hopefully we'll get an answer, but there is a good chance that we won't.
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Old 05-09-2019, 04:16   #53
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

Up until now I was thinking the fire started in the galley. Maybe not.

Perhaps the fire started below as a smoldering that let off carbon monoxide? Or evan exhaust leak? I assume they had CO detectors but maybe not.

It does seem odd to me no one made it out. So maybe they were all asleep and overcome by CO from a smoldering Fire. We see the galley ablaze because that’s where the fire reaches open air and oxygen and the really lets go.

Yes speculation.
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Old 05-09-2019, 04:56   #54
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

I've already learned a lot from all this speculation.

Some theories presented have been shot down right away. That's good. Some took an expert, or someone with specific knowledge of this boat, to disprove. Again, good.

What's left is still speculative, but far more focused than what might be learned from any one source.

Here's an example of one immediate takeaway. Over the winter, I keep the boat batteries topped off by plugging in about once a month or so. As the number of small battery-powered gadgets increases, I was planning to set up a "charging shelf" so I can have all of them plugged in and charging overnight whenever I plug in the boat.

I think I'm going to take them all home with me, and charge them where I can supervise the process, instead.

The speculation in this thread may have saved my whole marina from a massive fire, had I left a bunch of devices charging unattended, once a month.
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Old 05-09-2019, 06:59   #55
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

My condolences to the families that perished.

I am surprised that no one has talked about the nitrox compressors that the company had claimed was available for diving. Nitrox is a higher oxygen content then normal 'air' that we breathe. One can have compressed pure oxygen to feed the compressor. I do know that this can also be a fire risk.. From reports of the flames being difficult to put out, and 're flashing' could have something to do with being fed by oxygen.
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:53   #56
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Originally Posted by h20man View Post
Nitrox is a higher oxygen content then normal 'air' that we breathe. One can have compressed pure oxygen to feed the compressor.
Conception used a membrane nitrox filling system which uses no stored oxygen. The only non-air oxygen on board was in the medical emergency kit.


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Old 05-09-2019, 07:56   #57
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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I suspect crew was filling tanks and making breakfast. Gasoline and propane. I’d guess big instant fire, oxygen gone in the flash. Hope they figure it out. Plenty of witnesses.
I ran as a mate on these types of boats in the 90s, out of San Pedro. You won't find gasoline or propane anywhere near these boats. Also, the compressed air is not enhanced with additional oxygen.
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:23   #58
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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This is a risk many of us may not fully appreciate.

I had a professional photographer on board last summer when we went to Greenland, and I was surprised at all the precautions he took charging his drone batteries. I certainly had no idea that charging a relatively modest sized lithium battery created such a fire risk. He had special fireproof bags he kept them in while charging, and he never charged them if he was not in the same room with them. I'm starting to feel grateful.
Indeed! A quick search shows how inexpensive it is to take a modicum of precaution. This bag is around $21 U.S. but I have seen smaller bags that are much less, say around $12 or so U.S. I am sure that there are bags for more money.

It has an average rating of four out of five stars.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071S75F9C...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:25   #59
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
This is a risk many of us may not fully appreciate.


I had a professional photographer on board last summer when we went to Greenland, and I was surprised at all the precautions he took charging his drone batteries. I certainly had no idea that charging a relatively modest sized lithium battery created such a fire risk. He had special fireproof bags he kept them in while charging, and he never charged them if he was not in the same room with them. I'm starting to feel grateful.


The model airplane guys learned that years ago, partially because we pushed the packs so hard, with heavy discharges and heavy charging, and of course every now and again we crashed which damaged a battery, but it looked fine and worked so we kept flying it of course.
I was always suspect of the flimsy bags, I used to charge in a Pyrex dish with the glass lid on, others used clay flower pots.
Things like my 1kwh dive scooter battery, I charged in the shower as it was marble.
However it was the homemade packs and chargers that were the worst.
A friend was charging his homemade scooter pack in the High Springs Cadillac Motel when it caught fire, he had to escape out of the tiny bathroom window.

A couple of years ago there was a thread about a rather large Swan that had just crossed the Atlantic, caught fire that night in a Marina, a crew member was charging their phone, which I believe we all do.
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:27   #60
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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The model airplane guys learned that years ago, partially because we pushed the packs so hard, with heavy discharges and heavy charging, and of course every now and again we crashed which damaged a battery, but it looked fine and worked so we kept flying it of course.
I was always suspect of the flimsy bags, I used to charge in a Pyrex dish with the glass lid on, others used clay flower pots.
Things like my 1kwh dive scooter battery, I charged in the shower as it was marble.
However it was the homemade packs and chargers that were the worst.
A friend was charging his homemade scooter pack in the High Springs Cadillac Motel when it caught fire, he had to escape out of the tiny bathroom window.

A couple of years ago there was a thread about a rather large Swan that had just crossed the Atlantic, caught fire that night in a Marina, a crew member was charging their phone, which I believe we all do.
In addition to the risk from the batteries themselves, aftermarket chargers present a significant risk.
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