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Old 20-09-2023, 00:28   #316
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Originally Posted by skipperpete View Post
Itís significant that after this incident ( and the duckboat as well as other passenger vessel multiple fatalities) there is still no implementation of the tried and tested SMS ( safety management system) for passenger vessels despite years of recommendations and representations to USCG. The system works in way that would have stopped the unsafe practices leading to the deaths aboard the MV Conception. Iím not familiar with USCG rules and inspection procedures but here in Australia we rigidly observe both the AMSA survey and SMS requirements (as well as IMO ......as does the rest of the commercial maritime industry) with the responsibility for safety firmly on the captain (and crew). The SMS book is kept up to date with every possible existing or arising safety issue and is available for reading for all crew, both coastal and foreign going. IMO compliant vessels under US flag already use SMS so itís difficult to understand or justify the lack of SMS throughout the domestic passenger vessel operations.
Not being Australian or American I'm not familiar with either jurisdictions rules.
I am familiar with ISM. and a variety of classification societies.
one of the best of which is ABS. American Bureau Of Shipping

The US has been doing ISM for as long as it has existed.

Not sure what type or class of vessels you are comparing this to.
Or what the Australian requirements are for certification of a small pax vessel of this sise.

The vessel here was a Domestic only vessel with limited operation and requirements. So ISM not required. The domestic requirements quite minimal.The NTSB report suggests even those were not complied with or effectively audited.

NTSB recommendations are not requirements.
No doubt, there are a lot of vested interests pushing back arguing the cost of implementation for small domestic only passenger vessels is far to costly and not required.

Bigger domestic operators voluntarily comply with ISM. And ABS do the audits. And have done since long before this incident.
[
Unfortunately. Regulations have a tendency to be written in blood

The History of small tour boats is not good.

I used to be involved in the UK sail training system prior to the Loss of the Maquessa. There was effectively no regulation. Now the RYA system exists. I'm sure it has its faults but it beets the heck out of what existed before. And took quite a while to develop.
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Old 20-09-2023, 00:54   #317
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Why polyethylene trash cans?
They are cheap and meet requirements.
Sometimes its not just cheep but easy to use and keep clean.
Mostly used with a typical garbage bag.

No proving what started the fire in the gash can. If i was betting Id put money on a discarded cigarette butt.
Not necessarily discarded by the smoker. Possibly swept up by a crewmember cleaning or from an ashtray and foolishly dumped in nearby gas can as easier than disposing of in a more appropriate manner.

Gash can full of typical flammable garbage smouldering butt may take considerable time before igniting fire. mean while everyone has gone to sleep.
No idea if this boat was smoking or non smoking.

Oddly have dealt with more gas can fires since we went completely non smoking.
They were almost non events. Put out by an alert crewmember before they got going.
And the crew still have to sweep up butts a job they hate.

Not disposing of butts in a gash can is very basic training.
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Old 20-09-2023, 05:43   #318
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

Is "gash can" a typo for "trash can" or is this some lingo I'm not familiar with?

Interesting that all the concern about charging Lithium batteries may have been misplaced, and it comes back to something as mundane as a trash can fire. No less tragic, but something that we're all familiar with.

Of course that begs the question of what caused the trash can fire. Smoking materials are an easy assumption, but equally likely IMHO would be oily rags. Someone oiling the teak or wiping down the engine room before getting underway, and the rags stayed in the bottom of the trash can for the whole trip. The timing works. Of course we'll never know for sure, although it would be interesting to know if it was a "non smoking" boat.
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Old 20-09-2023, 05:52   #319
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

But why are polyethylene trash cans particularly dangerous? Does the Coast Guard recommend against or prohibit them onboard now?
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Old 20-09-2023, 09:32   #320
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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But why are polyethylene trash cans particularly dangerous? Does the Coast Guard recommend against or prohibit them onboard now?
Itís not clear, but I think they are just saying compared to a metal trash can. The material itself will both melt and ignite, where a fire would have to Ďescapeí an intact metal can.

Isnít that a thing with oiled rags, always only put in a metal trash can? Slightly different application obviously.
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Old 20-09-2023, 09:44   #321
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Is "gash can" a typo for "trash can" or is this some lingo I'm not familiar with?
Tom
Uricanejack is speaking English.

You are speaking American.
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Old 15-10-2023, 16:23   #322
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

Saw the Truth (sister boat) at the Channel Islands this week. Full group of a people on a dive trip. The website indicates a new company bought both sister boats and are running charters. Has anyone been on these boats since the fire? Any major changes?
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Old 15-10-2023, 18:40   #323
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Tom
Uricanejack is speaking English.
No, then it would be "trash bin."
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Old 15-10-2023, 21:02   #324
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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No, then it would be "trash bin."
English from England, not that American dialect.
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Old 26-10-2023, 09:04   #325
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

It’s astonishing to me that these investigators can figure out the fire’s origin on a boat that burned to the water and sank, and then had to be recovered and transported to shore across the ESBC. And in the end conclude that a centuries-old problem, not a new-fangled tech one, was the culprit—a fire in a trash bin into which anything might have been discarded by any one aboard at any time. Sad, sad, so sad. That’s why we must have (24-hr) watch standers aboard. Ultimately, in my view, a lack of proper watch led to the ultimate demise of the vessel, its crew, and its passengers. That’s the “fail-safe” component of vessel operation. Make up all the excuses you wish but the people who run the ship are the ones with that responsibility. It’s no secret—it’s maritime law and tradition. A captain with a “ticket” knows this, is certified in that knowledge, so is the person responsible. There is no scape goat here if I read all of this correctly.
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Old 07-11-2023, 02:34   #326
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

Captain Jerry Boylan was found guilty of of one count of misconduct, or neglect of ship officer [AKA: 'seaman's manslaughter'], in the 2019 sinking of the M/V “Conception”, and the deaths of 34 people, the deadliest maritime disaster, in recent U.S. history.
A sentencing hearing is scheduled for February. He could get up to 10 years, in prison.
While the criminal trial is over, several civil lawsuits remain ongoing.

Morehttps://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr...s-found-guilty
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Old 07-11-2023, 02:56   #327
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

Thanks interesting article.

Not over yet still the sentence to come.
Presumably cowardice is based on testimony from the court about the abandonment of the vessel while passengers and crew members. were still alive and trapped.

I expect the sentence will be severe.
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Old 07-11-2023, 03:14   #328
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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...
While the criminal trial is over, several civil lawsuits remain ongoing.
Three days after the inferno, Truth Aquatics and the Fritzlers [boat owner Glen Fritzler, who with his wife owns Truth Aquatics Inc] filed a lawsuit, under a pre-Civil War provision of maritime law, that allows it to limit its liability to the remains of the boat, which was a total loss. The time-tested legal maneuver has been successfully employed by the owners of the Titanic, and other vessels, and requires the Fritzlers show they were not at fault.

That case is pending, as well as others, filed by victims’ families, against the Coast Guard, for alleged lax enforcement, of the roving watch requirement.

More about ➥ https://www.independent.com/2021/03/...maining-boats/
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Old 07-11-2023, 03:51   #329
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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And ➥ https://www.latimes.com/california/s...e-boat-company

And ➥ https://www.independent.com/2020/01/...nception-fire/

And ➥ https://www.maritime-executive.com/a...dive-boat-fire
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Old 07-11-2023, 04:04   #330
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

I suspect that I may have previously posted this link, but official NTSB Marine Accident Report:


Fire Aboard Small Passenger Vessel Conception
Platts Harbor, Channel Islands National Park, Santa Cruz Island,
21.5 miles South-Southwest of Santa Barbara, California
September 2, 2019
Marine Accident Report
NTSB/MAR-20/03
PB2020-10101

Report herehttps://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...ts/MAR2003.pdf
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